murphaph

I'm a realist and don't really expect we'll see any increase in railfreight but one has to also note that even given the "hostile environment" of IE (sadly including the management, unions and staff in the past at least), the DoT and successive governments, there are still liner trains operating in Ireland. If that doesn't prove that there's potential there I don't know what does! Imagine if you weren't relying on IE but a private operator to get your load to the port on time and reliably. As brexit continues to force a realignment of supply chains, the island is becoming a single unit economically with shipping bypassing GB and increasing massively through the south east, you'd imagine railfreight from Waterford and Rosslare to railheads across the country would be about as viable as it's been in many years. Instead of 20 drivers taking 20 lorries from Derry or Galway to Rosslare or Waterford, one or two drivers can bring those loads to a railhead to be taken in bulk to Rosslare or Waterford. The island isn't that small really, especially if a large proportion of your freight is now being funnelled through one corner of it and when the proportion of unaccompanied trailers crossing the sea is increasing.

Railfreight could rise from the ashes with the concentration of freight movements now happening in the southeast of the island. It won't happen as long as IE is being relied upon to deliver it however. Without open access to the infrastructure (which should stay in state hands like the road network) to private railfreight companies, there will be no renaissance in railfreight.

I remember reading somewhere that Tara mines traffic went via Foynes for a time. Was this at the very start after the mine had opened? When was that? What wagons were used? Cheers all.

Where did you get it? Homemade? I see nothing like that in Modelling Irish Railways:

My fast clock will be digital and computer controlled

I absolutely love looking through my working timetable trying to "play detective" and imagine what went where by piecing the bits together. Trying to run my railway close to a real working timetable is the end goal. I will build in a bit of "plausible fantasy" to increase rolling stock possibilities (for example in my time period the Cahir viaduct has already collapsed and beet traffic is to be routed via Kildare to Mallow) I will run a fast clock so I can have a train more or less always visible on the layout.

So I'm intentionally leaving the centre of the room free for a possible n gauge (probably US themed) switching layout, should I ever bore of the Irish Midlands or want to allow guests, but I'm not expecting to any time soon and I get a lot of enjoyment out of the computer automation stuff, which gives a lot of room to try new things out, even though the rolling stock stays Irish. I am aiming to build the layout so that I can, without too much lack of realism run it with older stock some day. I understand the gauge is not a problem for most but it really makes a difference to me. It has to be 21mm. It can be done. Quite a few of those American basement empires on YouTube are all handbuilt track. Many of those guys chose that path because they simply couldn't afford to buy ready made stuff when they started. To my mind a 3 shelf layout say a foot and a half deep is something I'll still be able to operate well into old age. I've seen (sadly) a few YouTube layouts where the guy can't crawl under things anymore and the layouts are to be taken apart. I like long runs of open countryside as well where prototypical length trains can stretch their legs.

Cheers John, Yeah it's definitely fairly ambitious especially in 21mm but I'm up for it. I am now more strongly leaning towards 3 independent shelves all on the flat with the spiral being hidden behind the backscenes. The plan for staging for the provincial stations is to continue the spiral down a layer and have another complete shelf slightly off the ground full of sidings long enough for a complete train (probably two different lengths of sidings for "short" and "long" trains) The plan for Dublin staging is the same but up top, continue the spiral out to a top shelf at about my head height and fan out into a shelf full of sidings all around the room. It will operate end to end like the prototype. Carriages and wagons will typically not be turned. The loco will be released and leave the rake to be picked up by itself or another loco later. The fact some trains would end up being turned due to the stop in Kilkenny will have a blind eye turned to it. Anything that visits Kilkenny in my layout always visits Kilkenny, so would be turned around again before passing back through Athy. I will provide a short wye in one of the corners of both the provincial (lowest level) storage and Dublin (highest level) to allow single 121s and possibly some day steam engines to be turned at each end of the run. I will of course "recycle" stock where possible. I can't fit it afford not to. I will use the hidden spiral to reposition rakes mostly back to Dublin as my layout represents stations much closer to Dublin than the provincial termini so I will need to simulate a wave of ex-Dublin trains in the morning/evening rather than an even back and forth. I will also, as previously mentioned use the hidden spiral to reposition obviously incorrect freight wagons where the load is visible. Gypsum and fertiliser are the only two I can think of off hand but the odd ballast train too probably assuming they depart Lisduff laden and return there empty, but they won't be computer controlled workings anyway. The hidden spiral will require pointwork but my plan would be to have all points in the scenic break by the door so they aren't hidden behind the backscenes. The only thing behind the backscenes should be plain straight or fairly generously curved track. I have been wondering would a check rail be at all sensible in the curves. Any thoughts on that? I want the hidden track, especially the spiral to be very reliable. John I am familiar with both those layouts and they are really great. Also really like Jack Burgess' YV Railroad which is also multi deck, end to end. When it comes to the actual track in place at the time I'm going to allow myself some leeway and pretend that a lot of the modernisation works hadn't yet happened. There will be a lot of FB rail on wooden sleepers (directly soldered) in my world and I will probably reduce CTC's influence so everything south of Cherryville is semaphores.

Thanks a lot for the tips folks. Much appreciated. Josefstadt, I'm going to be building it all in 21mm so no off the shelf trackwork available unfortunately. The track in the off scene areas will be minimalist however, with very wide sleeper spacing.

My very first common crossing vee. A 1:7 made of Code 75 bullhead rail. Vee filing jigs from the P4 society. DCC concepts flux and 145 degree detailing solder. I'm still waiting for my PCB sleepers to arrive. I'm not sure if I'm filing the nose blunt enough as described by Rice in his pragmatic PCB book. Probably some trial and error required. The plan is to start "mass producing" points to a standard pattern to be used in the off scene areas of my planned layout. The basement room it's destined to go into is currently my workshop and will remain so until the garage is built. Building points in the meantime allows me to make use of that time. I will require a lot of points for my staging areas. Although bullhead soldered directly to PCB looks a bit wrong, here it doesn't matter as it won't be seen in operation and bullhead appears a little easier to make points out of than FB (no need to file the foot of the switch blades off at the taper).

I'm a real fan of layouts that model a real section of a prototype railway. I love watching layout tour videos where the guy explains what used to happen where on the prototype. Maybe it's a lack of imagination however!

What you said about journey time struck a chord with me Robert. I'm back considering the 2/3 independent and flat levels connected by around the room spiral (nolix) hidden behind the scenery rather than making the visible area itself the spiral. The huge advantage of the hidden spiral being that I could stack trains in there long enough to make the journey time from Athy on the lowest level to Kildare on the middle or highest level realistic. I could even reduce speed way down to reduce ghost noise emanating from the layout, just like I intend doing in the proper staging areas. The whole mainline will be computer controlled anyway so I will know if a train has become stuck somewhere and Rocrail won't allow any rear endings. It will be one of these two approaches. A typical helix is out of the question given how much floor area and room volume it would consume.

Yeah does anyone know the highest price ever paid for a MM loco? There was this one for €416 a few days back: https://m.ebay.ie/itm/Murphys-Models-NIR-Irish-class-111-No113-Belfast-and-County-Down-Ltd-Edition/124563627657#vi__app-cvip-panel That must be a contender but I heard of a kind of mania around the Lima 201s during the Celtic Tiger where all bets were off on price.

Or fortunately when you look at the price people are prepared to pay already! I'm glad I'm not looking for one anyway. I'm blessed I got back into the hobby when I did and nabbed all the 071s I need. Just in the nick of time to be honest.

Thanks Robert. The first idea I had was similar to what you suggested in fact, distinct decks connected by helix and then I thought about doing it exactly like your suggested way but the concern I had and still have was/is primarily about access in the case of a derailment. If I hide a level connecting track behind the backscenes I will have to make sure the backscenes can be easily removed to rescue a derailment anywhere. I'm not sure how practical that is. I also realised that if I do it this way I would be forced to provide a double track link to trains can go down a level and up a level simultaneously. I can't make trains wait to go off scene to transit between levels. It was at this stage that I came upon the idea of simply making the visible layout do the climbing (I had never knowingly seen an example of a layout like this but after some googling found a couple of examples, but really not many). I am hoping to have nice backscenes that curve up and over the rails to an extent, providing the illusion of "real blue sky". These would really preclude hiding any trackwork behind I think. The benefit of modelling this area is that it's largely flat terrain. No hills or mountains so I believe fairly ideally suited to a shelf type layout and I believe I can get the sorts of vertical separations that Iain Rice recommends in his book on shelf layouts. I did consider a peninsula but after careful consideration I have decided against one because I would like to keep the centre of the room clear for a potential (may never happen but whatever) n gauge layout of another prototype. I will have to live with a good deal of compression of the Cherryville to Athy section, but Newbridge to Cherryville Junction is a fairly short distance in real life so I will not have to compress distances here too much.

Hi all, I'm at the early planning stages of my layout which I intend to be "the big one" that outlives me. I was originally considering a Limerick Junction to Limerick Colbert layout but the angles at LJ make something halfway prototypical very difficult in my available space and room shape. My room is a basement room ca. 30' x 10' rectangular in shape with one ceiling height window at each long end (plan is to effectively forgo natural light and treat the layout like a stage, with appropriate lighting to simulate nightfall etc.) and a single door dead centre along one of the long sides I've thought a lot about what I want which is a large degree of computer control of long and busy mainline sections with "a little bit of shunting" at one or two spots. I really like the famous Yosemite Valley Railroad layout by Jack Burgess (great YouTube videos) and he recommends picking a prototype location because if it worked for the real railway, it will work for a layout. I feel the same and want to model a prototypical location in Ireland that fits the above criteria. After a lot of thought I think a suitable idea would be to model the GSWR/IR route section from just north east of Newbridge, through the Curragh Mainline, Kildare, Cherryville Junction (line to Cork goes off scene just after here, disappearing under the current R445, then N7), Athy (line to Waterford goes off scene just after here), Barrow Bridge, Tegral factory. How can I possibly fit all this in however? The plan is to build the entire thing as a shelf layout spiralling around the outside of the room (crossing the door on bridges) on a constant shallow grade of about 1.25% (except at locations where wagons need to be shunted. These limited areas should be flat to avoid wagons running away) I would need to make Kildare flat (for running around) and also the Tegral siding. The Tegral siding itself would be a bit of a compromise over the prototype because I can't fit the headshunt (stub of former Wolfhill Branch) in and I will need to come straight off the Barrow Bridge and curve into the factory, running around inside (looks like there was a headshunt inside the factory that would have actually allowed this). I want to run to a timetable that is close to a real one from the mid 90s, though I will probably pretend that mail trains continued for a couple of years longer. Athy was a fringe cabin to CTC back then so I will have colour light signals on the layout as far as there and then a few operational semaphores around Athy for interest. What about staging? Well I see the layout being built so that Athy is in the lowest level, spiralling around with ca. 1 foot of separation between the decks/shelves with Newbridge being the last visible station in the scenic area. Given this, I thought I could "simply" continue the track to a level below this, close to floor level to represent the staging areas (call them Waterford and Cork/Limerick/Galway etc) for the provincial termini stations. Above Newbridge the track should continue on up to a staging area above which would represent "Dublin". A single line hidden track would need to be included behind the facia of the spiral to allow repositioning of rolling stock that would obviously look wrong if traveling in a given direction (I don't ever want to see laden Gypsum or fertiliser trains on the up line heading towards Dublin, for example). This hidden track would also be where trains heading south or west would disappear onto when going off scene on their way to "Cork" or "Waterford". Any thoughts? I find very very few examples of such constant grade "nolix" around the room layouts. I'm guessing they are just not suitable for many as they require a decent sized room to enable the required vertical separation between decks to be gained within one lap of the room. I reckon a room much smaller than mine would preclude this design. I'm considering a raised step permanently built around the room enabling better viewing of the uppermost reaches of the modelled section. I have ruled out helixes because as I want to model in 21mm (this is a showstopper for me. I will make compromises elsewhere before contemplating not modelling in 21mm) I'm looking at a minimum radius of about 2' 6" and that would be cutting it tight but even at that a helix would be at least 5 or 6 feet across including fascia which would be an absolute monster of a thing, dominating the room and I'd probably need a double track one to prevent trains waiting on the scenic area to enter it. Accessing a derailed train in on the other side of a helix in the corner of a room looks like a real pain as well. Do you guys see any potential pitfalls I should consider with such an unusual design? It's very much a long term project if it's deemed feasible. A fair bit of track to make by hand but outside of the staging areas relatively "few" points. All in all I guess about 250' of continuous mainline track.

They must be the best travelled railcar/DMU on the island. They must have gotten just about everywhere between being leased to IR and being used on specials. I'd love a couple of em.

I agree but for me personally the flats offer more possibilities to run varied looking trains by simply swapping in different containers from Arran. I'm already looking forward to the next empty flats re-run

Done. Best of luck chaps.

I'll have to order a couple of the Garda Landovers. Irish army nissan patrols with the massive aerials would be class. I'd love to recreate a cash in transit convoy of the 90s:

A mine of information as always. Go raibh mile maith agat.

I was thumbing through my copy of Irish Traction and noticed that the author refers to a 07.50 Saturdays only Limerick-Inchicore empty barytes working through Ballybrophy on the 8th of May 1993. Was this really a timetabled working in 1993? I have the WT from the 18th of May 1992 but not the subsequent one and I see no mention of this train as being timetabled. How of ten did this train run? I am led to believe that the barytes were used as spoils in those days on weeekend possessions around the network so I'm wondering why they might timetable them to run to Inchicore specifically, if indeed they did at all. Liner question: In 1992 There were a number of Cork-Dublin Liners a day. Could anyone be specific about what sort of wagons made those liners up? Were there any containers that would be particularly dominant? (Waterford had Bells, for example) I'm aware these trains ran mostly in the dead of night, hence a likely dearth of photographs but maybe someone knows. Thanks all.

On google street view you can still see a tall metal framed water tower adjacent to the track to the north of the overbridge.

Looks really great Robert. I'll take at least one (definitely), possibly 2 or 3 depending on how configurable they are in the end if you go ahead. Fair play.

Thanks a lot Mogul. I may have to invoke rule number one for reefers from an Irish company then!