Mol_PMB

Ah, I know Paul but I didn't know he made those. 19.2mm across faces, I assume? I made one myself out of a block of brass which is good for plain axles but not ideal for powered ones.

Next I'll look at the vans which had high elliptical rooves. I think that a few existing vans were heavily modified in the 1920s, to match the style of the new bogie vans 2540-2547 (built 1920-1927) and bogie TPOs 2950-2951 (built 1919). These vans were also fitted with gangways, to improve their compatibility with the new bogie vans. The CIE 1961 carriage register lists the surviving 30' 6-wheel vans. Nos. 69, 71 and 79 are shown as built in 1924, but these appear to have been heavy rebuilds of older diagram 88/90 vans. They may have been entirely re-bodied. The carriage register shows these three vans as gangwayed. 71 and 79 are also shown as having late fee letterboxes. This photo dated 1939 appears in 'Great Southern Railways' - Murray, credited to SLS, and provides a useful comparison between a diagram 88 van (nearer) and an elliptical-roofed van beyond. Note the elliptical roof van has plainer straight beading which would have matched the 1920s carriage style. This IRRS photo dated 1952 shows an end view of an elliptical-roofed van, clearly showing the gangways: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507633327 This IRRS photo shows no.79, withdrawn at Mullingar in 1969 in black and tan livery. This clearly has an elliptical roof and gangways: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511737280 No.69 survives at Downpatrick, and is currently being rebuilt as a saloon. It has an elliptical roof and the description on the DCDR website notes that it was rebuilt in 1923, losing its birdcage when the roof was renewed. The website also notes that it was fitted with gangways, which were later removed. https://www.downrail.co.uk/rollingstock/gswr69/ Two of Ernie's photos show van 71 on the Ballaghaderreen branch train in 1961 and the elliptical roof profile can be seen quite clearly. In the second photo you can also see more clearly that the panelling of these vans had plainer straight beading compared to the normal diagram 90 vans. So, vans 69, 71 and 79 all had elliptical rooves and gangways. However, they were not the only 6-wheel vans with gangways, and I'll look at that last group in the next post. But first I'm going to do some modelling!

A brief intermission to show the artwork I've been preparing for a diagram 88 van in 1950s condition. Intended to replace the sides of an SSM third class coach kit. I still need to do the duckets and the roof skylights, but I won't be adding a birdcage.

In the number listing on diagram 90, there were 36 vans listed, of which 27 were built between 1905 and 1911 to the design shown in my previous post. However, the following nine vans had older build dates: nos. 3 (1899), 1004 (1896), 1005 (1896), 1010 (1893), 1011 (1885), 1015 (1894), 1018 (1899), 1019 (1895), 1020 (1895). Most of these older vehicles were withdrawn in the 1940s or early 1950s, but a few remained until 1959: nos. 3, 1005, 1018. My guess is that these older vans were diagram 88 vehicles (or similar) that were updated by the GSWR to be more consistent with diagram 90. This is based on the existence of photos showing vans that seem to be a hybrid of diagrams 88 and 90, which I shall illustrate in this post. My guess may be wrong, but there were certainly a few 'hybrid' vans which were photographed in the 1950s. This 1950s photo appears in 'Great Southern Railways' - Murray and shows such a van. The sides look like a diagram 90, with the panels in triplets either side of the double doors, and the later style beading typical of a diagram 90. But the roof has the flatter arc of a diagram 88, and shows signs of being raised a few inches all round. We've seen this 1956 photo from Ernie before, looking at the diagram 88 van in the foreground. The next vehicle is another of the hybrids, with the sides of a diagram 90 but the roof of a diagram 88 raised a few inches. The side windows are more obvious in this shot: Another photo from Ernie shows one of these vans with a raised roof in a diesel-hauled train, coupled next to the MGWR 'hearse'. Finally, this one from the IRRS dated 1958 isn't quite the same but I think belongs in this group: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500931838

It was certainly built as fully fitted, as listed in the GNR diagram book. Unfitted vans of this type had only 1 brake shoe each side, whereas fitted vans had two each side. The brake gear arrangement was unusual, based on the simple handbrake version with the vac gear and extra brake shoes grafted on. However, there is a note on the list of numbers accompanying the diagram that 25 of these vans had their vac gear removed and fitted to conflat wagons in 1953. I confess it's hard to read the number on the photo. Plausible numbers 4166, 4169, 4186, 4188 all kept their vac brakes. When I first looked I thought it was 4168 but that doesn't appear in the list at all. So in conclusion I think it is fully fitted. Here's my 4166N:

The other significant group was classed as diagram 90 in 1924, but seems to have comprised several variants, some of which were further modified by the GSR. The story becomes complex and I don't really have sufficient information. However, a study of the photographs indicates some clear groups of vehicles and I'll present each one separately. What seems to be the 'standard' diagram 90 van, built from 1905 to 1911, had a high arc roof and panelling with curved corners above the waist. In style and profile these vans matched the contemporary GSWR bogie coaches. This view from 1934 is reproduced in 'Railways in Ireland part 4' - Bairstow and shows the high arc of the roof compared to the previous diagram 88 vehicles: This photo from around 1950 also reproduced in 'Railways in Ireland part 4' - Bairstow shows another one, probably still in GSR livery, and the high arc of the van and the bogie coach contrast with the low arc roof of the lav compo between them. An image dated 1950 in 'Irish Railways since 1916' - Baker shows the rather simple roof detailing of a diagram 90 van: This IRRS photo from the 1940s shows one in a long train of 6-wheelers: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509178559 Dated 1951-2, Ernie's photo here shows more of the side detailing including the panelling arrangement and the small windows in the sides just outboard of the double doors: Before delivery of the 'tin vans', many photos show these vans working with more modern stock, as in this 1956 photo from Ernie: And this IRRS shot with a rake of new Park Royals: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53445965187 Many of these diagram 90 vans received the light green livery with waist line in the mid-1950s, and this IRRS photo shows a clear view of the side: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500998073 In the late 1950s, one could often be found on the Ballaghaderreen branch train, and I think many of these photos show van 1075: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253241253 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253254264 Their work on the Ballaghaderreen branch lasted into the era of colour photography, as seen here in photos from the IRRS and Ernie: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569641932 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570499056 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570697388 And Ernie also captured one in Cork: Van 18 of this type received the early version of black and tan livery (a shallower band of tan with the numbers on the black portion) as seen here in 1962: That series of photos illustrates the 'standard' diagram 90 van, i.e. those in accordance with the diagram and the most common features. However, there were at least 3 other variants of nominally diagram 90 vans, with different features - roof shapes and gangways. I'll present those in subsequent posts to follow.

Before moving on to the later GSWR designs, I'll just tip my hat in the direction of West Cork. The CBSCR built some 6-wheel full brakes that were very similar in appearance to the GSWR diagram 88, but they were about 3 feet shorter. No.72 entered departmental stock as crane mess van 202A, and appears in many photos of Rocksavage - this colour image in Ernie's collection is the nicest view I've seen. Not really on-topic but it may avoid some confusion with these similar-looking vehicles.

Excellent. Do you have any older photos of 69 prior to its recent rebuild? I was about to ask if it was ever gangwayed but answered that question here - it was: https://www.downrail.co.uk/rollingstock/gswr69/ I'd still be interested to see any pics pre-restoration. However, it wasn't the only gangwayed 6-wheel van (as claimed in the linked blog) as I will show in a future post on this thread. At least seven GSWR 6-wheel vans were gangwayed.

Now, some photos, and I'll focus first on the most numerous diagram 88. This is an excellent view which is reproduced in 'Great Southern Railways' - Murray, credited to W A Camwell and dated 1939. The photo shows two former GSWR full brakes, almost certainly diagram 88. They have full panelling with twin panels flanking the double doors, and a full complement of vents on the doors. The nearer van has skylights but the birdcage lookout on the roof is absent - probably removed by the GSR. However, the rear van retains its birdcage. Adjacent to the skylights are gas lamps to provide illumination after dark, exactly as shown on diagram 88. The nearer van has a small window or hatch in the end, partly hidden by the loco tender, which is not shown on the diagram. A nice view from a lower viewpoint is shown in the same book; this also dates from 1939 and is credited to the SLS. This diagram 88 van is still fully panelled but has lost its birdcage and the vents on the double doors. Two other 1930s Camwell photos from the same book show distant views of similar diagram 88 vans without birdcages, but retaining a full set of door vents: The GSR didn't remove the birdcages from all these vans though; here is an IRRS photo dated 1946 showing one newly repainted in dark green with elaborate lining, retaining its birdcage and skylights. However, its panelling has been much simplified and the door vents removed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509171000 Not all were so lucky and van 75 was withdrawn in the late 1940s. Here are two IRRS photos of it dumped in late 1948, including a closeup end view with the window/hatch. No.75 retained its skylights, door vents and most of its panelling, but had lost its birdcage and was never repainted into CIE livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509066509 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507858422 One of Ernie's photos shows a diagram 88 van still carrying a birdcage in 1955. It appears to be in 1950s plain green livery and I think it is no.12 (just legible on enlargement). The side panelling on this van has been greatly simplified, it has no door vents and there is no window/hatch in the visible end. Another Ernie photo dated 1956 shows a van with similar panelling but without a birdcage (though skylights are still fitted). I can't quite make out the number but it might be 256. There's another van beyond it of a different type and I'll come back to this later. Ernie has another nice photo here featuring no.76 (second in line), still with birdcage but with simple panelling, in 1956. All these vans with simple panelling seem to be in CIE 1950s plain green livery. This IRRS image shows another van with simplified panelling, no birdcage but retaining its skylights and door vents, freshly painted in plain green livery in the early 1950s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508917406 This sequence of photos of a rake of tatty 6-wheelers appears to show an identical vehicle that is no.77, but with a few years weathering applied! https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511597820 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511332578 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511332133 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511484439 One of the later survivors of these vans was no.249, which seems to have been resident at Clonakilty until 1961, though it looks like it hadn't turned a wheel for some time. It retained traces of 1940s CIE dark green with elaborate lining, though that appears to have been patch-painted in plain green in places. Several photos exist including a rare colour view. It had lost its birdcage, skylights and door vents, but retained the original side panelling: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253235254 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511721670 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508626163/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507574982/ Colour view showing lining on the ducket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511295561/ Part visible on the left of this NLI image: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305108 So, it looks like many of the late survivors of diagram 88 ended their lives with simplified panelling in 1950s plain green livery, just a few of them retaining their birdcages. For my model, this scenario would be ideal - I could make some replacement sides and duckets, a few minor roof modifications, and retain the remainder of the SSM all-third kit. In future posts I will go on to look at the other diagrams and variants.

Following on from my thread on the GSWR 6-wheel lavatory composites, I thought I'd do another on the equivalent full brakes. I'm thinking of modelling one of these by fitting replacement sides to an SSM third class coach kit, because SSM do not offer a full brake kit. The full brakes were some of the last survivors of the GSWR 6-wheel coaches, with some remaining in use into the mid-1960s and the last withdrawal in 1970. Several received black and tan livery. This was the lav compo thread as a cross-reference: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/19720-gswr-6-wheel-lavatory-composites/ The book 'GSWR Carriage Diagrams' (Pender & Richards) shows the GSWR fleet as it was in 1924, including 40 diagrams of 6-wheel coaches. The diagrams are numbered and I'll refer to these numbers - it is not clear whether they were the numbers used by GSWR or whether thay have been added by Pender & Richards. There were 3 types of full brake shown in 1924: diagrams 88, 89 and 90. However, the situation is more complicated as many vehicles were modified by the GSR. It is likely that some extra diagrams would have been introduced to cover the modifications. I'm only working off the 1924 diagrams and the photos I have trawled from Flickr and books, so this won't be a definitive essay but hopefully it will suffice to illustrate the different types and their evolution. I'll present these in the order they were built rather than the diagram number order. Diagram 89 was the oldest, comprising just three vans built in 1875; nevertheless two survived well into the CIE period being withdrawn in 1959/60. The diagram shows a design with a central guard's compartment with side duckets and roof birdcage, flanked by a luggage/parcels van portion at each end. The guard's door had a droplight window but there were no other windows in the sides. The deadlights (blank panels) either side of the double doors were in twin panels. Diagram 88 was the most numerous type, with 52 vans passing to the GSR in 1924. They were built from 1882 to 1902, and 29 of them were still in traffic in 1956, though the numbers then dropped rapidly with most withdrawn by 1960 as they were replaced with tin vans. The diagram shows a design almost identical to diagram 89, with a central guard's compartment with side duckets and roof birdcage, flanked by a luggage/parcels van portion at each end. Differences shown on the diagram include a skylight near each end of the roof, and what might be dog box doors/vents at the lower end of each side. Diagram 90 was also producd in large numbers, with 36 vans passing to the GSR in 1924. Most were built from 1905 to 1911, but there are a few older vans in the list. 30 of them were still in traffic in 1956, with several surviving into the 1960s. The diagram has the same basic layout as the others, but the central guard's compartment lacks the roof birdcage, although side duckets are still fitted. There are no skylights, instead the luggage/parcels van portions are illuminated by small windows in the sides adjacent to the double doors. The panels either side of the double doors were in triplets - three narrow deadlights on the inner side of the doors, and a window and two deadlights on the outer side. All three diagrams show a similar high arc roof, but in reality this was not the case as we'll see when we start looking at photos. As-built, the older diagram 88 vehicles had a low arc matching the contemporary 6-wheel coaches, whereas the newer diagram 90 vans had a higher arc matching the GSWR's early bogie coaches. More to follow...

Lots of Irish Mk2s on eBay this week, if Santa brought you more money than you know what to do with: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147059508743 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147059466563 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147058933561 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147058944058 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147058951137 And a Hattons full brake: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/366086659179 I am not suggesting that these are sensible prices!

Back to GSWR 6-wheel lav compos, here are a couple more images I've found. Featured in 'Waterford, Limerick & Western Railway' - Shepherd is this view of one of the WLWR lav compos when new. WLWR 79 became GSWR 928 and lasted until 1958 with CIE. This was one of three (928-930) that were allocated to GSWR diagram 69 along with a larger group of similar GSWR-built vehicles. The diagram shows flat ends which was correct for the GSWR vehicles but this photo clearly shows the curved-in ends of a WLWR vehicle. Oil lamps on the roof but no roof vents or water tank, but it has a full set of vents on the doors. Note the curved, apparently wooden headstock ends which is different from the other WLWR lav compo diagrams which had channel steel headstocks. Next up, this photo is reproduced in 'Great Southern Railways' - Murray and credited to W A Camwell although it is undated - I guess 1930s. Looking at the shape of the near corner, I think this has curved-in ends and it would be the same type as that illustrated above - a former WLWR coach allocated to GSWR diagram 69. The lavatory water tank is clearly visible and it has vents on the roof but not on the doors, although there is one above the lavatory compartment. Finally, here's another lav compo featured in 'Railways in Ireland part 4' - Bairstow and credited to the author's collection. The image is dated to 'around 1950' and the lav compo appears to be a genuine GSWR diagram 69 in the CIE dark green livery with elaborate lining. It has a full set of roof and door vents, but no vent over the toilet window. I think there is a water tank on the roof. The last two photos both also feature GSWR full brakes and I'll be doing another thread on them later today.

Yes, it's amazing what could turn up in a passenger train in the 1950s. This is another favourite of mine (off-topic for this thread, there are no 6-wheelers here):

Whilst it would be well out of period for my modelling interests, I couldn’t resist one in model form. I suspect fitting the power bogie wheels into those splashers with enough space for bogie rotation and 21mm gauge would be a real challenge though, and there’s no space for over-size flanges! The FR Fairlies have a maximum bogie rotation angle of 4.25 degrees in yaw, so the doubles are prohibited from sharply-curved sidings. In pitch they are even more fussy, and so they do not go on low-loaders. They are impossible to lift in one piece by crane too. So they don’t leave home. Merddin has travelled over a million miles in nearly 150 years without ever going more than 25 miles from where it was built! There are still a few original bits - the nameplates have been polished so many times that their thickness is half what it once was.

At one stage it was thought the handbrake column was an original part, but it turned out to be from Moel Tryfan rather than Taliesin. The original chimney also survives but wasn’t used as it looked out of proportion- the replica is actually slightly over-scale. The FR Fairlies no longer use the flexible elbow joints (Merddin was the last to have them in the 1990s) and instead use flexible straight hoses with rigid elbows. Now there is another team working on a Gowrie replica. https://www.gowrielocomotivetrust.com/