Mol_PMB

A very fine display of millinery!

Well I'm kind of making it up as I go along. The parts I ordered from Screwfix were as follows (not all screw lengths shown in the photo): Qty Ordered Qty Despatched 79359 - Easyfix 4 Pronged Tee Nuts M6 x 9mm 10 Pack 3 3 838GX - Suki Levelling Foot M8 x 60mm 2 Pack 2 2 8114J - Easyfix Bright Zinc-Plated Roofing Bolts M6 x 60mm 10 Pack 1 1 3023J - Easyfix Bright Zinc-Plated Roofing Bolts M6 x 30mm 10 Pack 2 2 5213J - Easyfix Bright Zinc-Plated Roofing Bolts M6 x 20mm 10 Pack 1 1 6689T - Easyfix Zinc-Plated Steel Wing Nuts M6 10 Pack 1 1 That lot cost me £24 in total, and was delivered next day. The pronged tee nuts require the 6mm holes in the boards to be enlarged to 7.5mm diameter. If they're going into a single thickness of ply then they need a thin spacer (effectively a wooden washer) as well. You should get some of those spacers with the baseboard kits and will probably end up with spares. One of the pics in the previous post shows this. It takes quite a bit of force to push the prongs into the wood - hammer, vice or the M6 bolt itself working against a penny washer on the other side will all do the trick. Once they're in, they're very firm, and they won't get lost or need an extra hand or spanner when asseembling the boards. I haven't yet decided on my leg length (nor have I bought the timber). I did buy some adjustable feet though, as you can see. These are M8 but use the same type of pronged tee nut - in fact it was them that gave me the idea to use the pronged tee nuts in the board joints too. The M6 roofing bolts come with square plain nuts included, for normal joints. I got the wing nuts as well in case they turned out to be useful for something like the braces on the legs. Obviously the quantities you need will be different from mine, but with 8 bolts per board joint or leg pair, it's surprising how quickly they add up if you want to use all the holes! One tip - don't rush to fit the diagonal bracing on the underside of the boards. Think first! It can block important things like legs and point operating mechanisms. I modified a few of the G&H parts to suit my own needs - especially the ones that would fit in my laser cutter.

Some more progress on the Quartertown Mill baseboards today. I finished cutting out the track base pieces including slots for point tiebars and uncouplers, and then stuck those down, well weighted and pinned in a few strategic places. I also made and fitted a reinforcing fillet where the track base overlaps the edge of the board in the fiddle yard area. The Grainge & Hodder baseboard kits are supplied with holes to allow boards to be bolted together, or legs attached using their brackets. These are intended for M6 bolts but the fasteners aren't actually supplied. I ordered a selection of M6 bits from Screwfix and today I have also fitted the captive nuts to the timber parts where required. These will make it easier to assemble/disassemble the main components. Finally, my next victim has arrived! Destined to become a tar/bitumen tank, which is surprisingly appropriate for Quarterown flour mill because the siding was also used for tar deliveries to Roadbinder Ltd. So, nothing very exciting but some steps forward. I'm definitely not keeping up with Darius!

TMC are having a massive sale this weekend, with 40% to 70% off many items. There's a lot of new, good quality OO scale rolling stock available at 40% off. Not specifically Irish, but some of the items would be suitable for Irish layouts. https://www.themodelcentre.com/40-75-off-sale I picked up a new Dapol O gauge Austerity tank for £162.00 (RRP £278.91)

Especially if you’re modelling the electrified Cork suburban network! I understand a 25kVac version of the Dart+ trains will be ordered for that

And there was me thinking Sligo, Enniskillen and Derry/Londonderry...

Wonderful - many thanks!

Of course the proponents of additive manufacture will talk about it being a much more efficient use of material because you don't end up with the bin full of swarf that a machining process would produce. No, you get a bin full of rejects instead! And most of these materials can't be recycled. But it's still a transformative technology now that it can be done at a domestic scale.

Now, modelling. The best starting point is almost certainly the Bachmann anchor-mounted tank, which represents a Charles Roberts design very similar to those supplied to CIE in 1954 (23851-23870). This was made in black in Esso or Regent livery, and while the models are a few years old they aren't hard to find on EBay. A black one (class B) is a better starting point than a silver one (class A), as it has the right fittings for a tar tank including the steam heat connection on the tank side. The Bachmann tank diameter actually lies somewhere between the correct diameters for a 14T class B (6'7") and 14T class A/20T class B (7'3"). It's a compromise allowing the same moulding to be used for both. But for the CIE tar tanks it's perfect, because the diameter over the cladding of the tar tanks was 6'11.5" - matching the Bachmann model. For an OO gauge model, the minimum job is to remove the existing lettering and add transfers to represent the CIE livery. There are a couple of other discrepancies which could be addressed for a slightly more accurate model of the CIE Charles Roberts wagons: Reshape the tank ends to represent the cladding of a lagged tank Add a tiebar between the axleguards Add the extra steam plumbing fitted to the Irish wagons Widen the frame by 2mm to represent a broad gauge wagon (especially if wanting 21mm gauge). This would also enable the saddle shapes to be modified to better match the Irish wagons. Alternatively, the wagon can be modified to represent one of the Irish-built variants, with additional modifications to the brake gear instead of fitting the tie bar between the axleguards. For the more determined, you can build a replacement super-detailed underframe using an etched kit from Rumney Models; the kit also includes some more finely detailed ladders: https://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/tank-wagon-underframes https://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/B.71_14T_Anchor_Mount_Tank_Wagon_Chassis_Instructions.pdf This underframe kit would still need widening to suit 21mm gauge though!

Some more photos found. Two excellent images of the last batch of Charles Roberts tanks after delivery to Ireland, but still brand new. Here are 25008 and 25009 in July 1962, showing the steam heating pipe connections and the unloading pipe too: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306097 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306096 Here's 23868 of the first Charles Roberts batch, at Inchicore in January 1956 looking a bit grubby: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253400540/ JHB's book 'Rails Through North Kerry' has a nice sequence of images of 23855 being shunted at Lixnaw on 12th November 1976. This is the same wagon that was photographed by Charles Roberts when brand new, and seen upthread. The same book also has a much earlier photo at Ballingrane, showing 23817 and another similar tank, looking very clean and newly painted.

What of the remainder? This gets even more confusing. The batches listed by Pender & Richards that are not yet accounted for are: 23831-23845, built 1953, 15 ton capacity, 17’6” length over headstocks (total 15) 23871-23890, built 1954, 15 ton capacity, 17’6” length over headstocks (total 20) The batches listed by the CIE annual reports that are not yet accounted for are: 1953/4: 20 rail tar tanks introduced, [thought to be medium/large capacity 2,000 to 3,000 gallons] (plus 23801-23830 already accounted for) 1955: 10 rail tar tanks introduced (plus 23851-23870 Charles Roberts already accounted for) 1958: 10 rail tar tanks converted from former open wagons These two lists contain different total quantities of wagons and build dates. They are difficult to reconcile. Let's look at the available photos of tar tank wagon batches not yet described. First, the CIE wagon diagram book listing for the Charles Roberts built tanks is illustrated by this photo of 23832 (which was NOT a Charles Roberts built wagon): This has an 'Irish' underframe, but is different from the 23801-23830 series because the tank is a fair bit shorter than the underframe. I think the underframe is standard length so the tank is shorter. It might also have a slightly smaller diameter, which would make it closer to 2,000 gallons than the later standard 3,000 gallons capacity. This IRRS photo is by Norman McAdams and was published in IRRS journal 198 but isn't available on the Flickr archive. It shows 23845. My impression is that it also has a shorter tank like 23832 above, but I admit it's very hard to tell from this angle. It has an 'Irish' underframe and brake arrangement. Incidentally this photo puts the very minimal tar discharge facilities into context: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256975193 So I would tentatively suggest that the batch of 15 wagons 23831-23845 were built with medium capacity tanks (around 2,000 to 2,500 gallons) and retained those tanks throughout their life. (Remember that their predecessors 23801-23830 appear to have been built with 1,200 gallon tanks and then rebuilt with 3,000 gallon tanks) This undated photo from Ernie shows lots of tank wagons, though they may not all be Tar/bitumen tanks. Zooming in we can make out 23871 on the left. This may be one of the tanks described as converted from open wagons, and might have had a different length underframe and/or tank. From this angle, we can only guess! Another mystery is the tank in the background of Ernie's super photo at Nenagh on 6th June 1961: Zooming in, this is definitely a tar bitumen tank but it is structurally very different from the ones we've looked at so far. This isn't an anchor-mounted tank but uses the older saddle-mounting arrangement with end stanchions and diagonal tie bars. It's unlikely that a tank of this type would have been built new in the 1950s, so this may be an older vehicle modified for tar bitumen traffic. My best guess at the number is 25437, but I'm not confident of that. I am pretty sure that the middle digit isn't an 8, so this is numbered in a different series to the other tar/bitumen tanks. I'll keep searching for more photos and would be delighted if anyone can point me in the right direction or share their examples on this thread. I've also got a couple of posts to come about modelling some of these.

I have just acquired a 1953 WTT, dating from when the AEC railcars were first introduced. It has some interesting notes on railcar operation including intermediate coaches and tail loads. The right-hand list of non-passenger stock that might be added to a railcar set as tail traffic is quite interesting and varied; some examples of these can be seen upthread:

I have just acquired a 1953 WTT, dating from when the AEC railcars were first introduced. It has some interesting notes on railcar operation including intermediate coaches and tail loads. Worth posting here in its entirety I think; in due course I will add to this thread with details of some of the more unusual vehicles that worked with the railcars.

A new acquisition today, the 1953 summer WTT, provides this for Birr:

Having dealt with the relatively simple Charles Roberts tar tanks, let's move on to the first of the CIE-built batches, which according to Pender & Richards were: 23801-23830, built 1953, 15 ton capacity, 17’6” length over headstocks Statements from the CIE annual reports that may be relevant to these wagons include: [my comments in square brackets] 1952: The Board has commenced a building programme of rail and road tankers... [but only one, probably a road tanker, completed in this year] 1953: An additional 33 rail tar tankers and 8 road tar tankers were provided for the transport of hot bitumen. 1954: Seventeen new rail tar tankers were put into service, making a total of 50 in operation during the year. These vehicles, with a total capacity of 83,000 gallons [an average capacity of 1,660 gallons per tank] 1955: During the year, 30 additional rail tankers were put into service for the tar and bitumen bulk traffic, bringing the total number in operation to 80. [20 of these new tanks were by Charles Roberts] 1956: During the year, 28 rail tank cars of 1,200 gallon capacity each, were increased to 3,000 gallon capacity. These statements indicate that 50 tar tanks were built in 1953/4, and that the majority of them were of quite small capacity (fleet average 1,660 gallons - for example this could have been made up of 30 tanks of 1,200 gallons and the remaining 20 being 2,400 gallons). The rapidly growing traffic and the example of the 3,000 gallon Charles Roberts tanks may then have encouraged CIE to rebuild the smaller tanks to 3,000 gallons, when they were only 2-3 years old. So, one interpretation of this information is that the 30 wagons 23801-23830 were built in 1953 with small 1,200 gallon tanks, and were rebuilt with 3,000 gallon tanks in 1956. There are other possible interpretations of course. What is clear from photos is that this batch of 30 wagons were latterly quite consistent, and had large tanks similar in size and style to the Charles Roberts tanks. It is quite plausible that they were of the same nominal 3,000 gallon, 15 ton capacity and the tanks themselves may even have been supplied by Charles Roberts. However, the underframes were different and had distinctive Irish features. This photo from Ernie is dated 19th June 1956, and shows 23829 looking reasonably clean and fresh: This IRRS image is an excellent portrait of 23805 dated September 1964, with a recent repair to the cladding on the end of its tank. It appears to have a steam heating pipe below the headstock (as used for train heating) which may have been connected to the coils in the tank. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251527038 @Mayner's photo of 23826 in the 1970s shows one of these tanks towards the end of its life: Some features to note in the photo above: Plate axleguards with no holes in (unlike BR type on the Charles Roberts tanks). Absence of tie-bar connecting the axleguards (present on the Charles Roberts tanks). Irish style brakes - long brake handle operating a single brake shoe on the left-hand wheel. Tank (including lagging) is slightly shorter than the underframe. Tank secured by anchor mount arrangement with the cradles inboard of the wheels (same as the first batch of Charles Roberts tanks). Steam pipe fitting on one end of the tank (rather than on one side) The ladders are in line with the end of the catwalk (rather than the middle) Later in life, a raised plate was provided on the tank side for the 'Tar Bitumen' lettering, so that tar spills would not conceal the branding. This IRRS photo dated 11 June 1958 gives a useful top view of three of these tanks: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500839366 Two IRRS photos at Inchicore in early 1964 show a couple more of these wagons: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505734117 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251291181 From Ernie, a short rake of these tanks being shunted at Cork: Another view of 23826, at Tralee on 3 May 1978. Photo by Gerry McMahon published in IRRS Journal 186 but not available online. Note the steam pipe connections on the end of the tank: