Mol_PMB

Beautiful! Super modelling and photography - the attention to detail is amazing.

A bit more progress on the bitumen tank. There's only so much of this I can do at one sitting. It's even got working springs! I've not got too far to go now with the chassis. The tank is well on the way but needs a bit more filling and sanding before I start work on the ladders and catwalks.

Very interesting! Late 1940s and looks like an anchor-mount tank. Crude Benzol is a Class A product (low flash point) so would be a silver tank. Are you thinking of bidding on it?

My recent trawl through the photo archives has identified some more photos of tar bitumen tanks that can be referenced in this thread. Most are in the IRRS Flick archive so you will need to be an IRRS member to see them. Firstly, a couple more detail photos of the GNR 6-wheeled tanks, the second one is in colour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511317628 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255284544/ Then an interesting group of shots showing how a rail tank could be discharged by gravity into a road tanker at Mullingar. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511613510 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511499779 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511347303 One wonders whether the traction engine might be a source of steam for melting the contents of the rail tank if it had solidified? The road vehicle appears to have propane/butane tanks for that purpose. A very characterful tar tanker/sprayer which appears to have been converted from a GSR bus, if I am interpreting the caption correctly: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419691774 A couple of photos of Mallow showing tar bitumen tanks on a siding near the Fermoy/Waterford line. Noting the hoses by the wall and the lower ground level beyond the wall, I wonder if Mallow had a similar arrangement to Mullingar for discharging the tanks? That would have later been superseded by the use of the Quartertown Mill branch. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511646893 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508522006 And finally a miscellany of images showing tar bitumen tanks in trains, yards and sidings: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511455538 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510434982 (on the right) https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527761675 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527329681 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253254179 (3 in this photo, including an older, smaller one. Note steam heat connection on the nearest one) https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305566 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252089752/ (2 here, the right-hand one is older and smaller capacity) https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304717 (this shows the steam piping rather well, as well as the catwalk details) I'd better get back to the soldering iron and finish off my model of one of these!

A super photo of a GNR fitted IRCH van has just come up for sale on ebay, lots of nice details here. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/358059308009 This looks like N4168 in the UTA fleet, close to the 4166N I modelled.

Digressing slightly onto the 6-compartment 3rds, John is correct that the vast majority were withdrawn or converted in the 1940s. According to the diagram 86 listing, 73 of these 6-compt thirds passed to the GSR in 1924. However, the listing shows that after the purge in the 1940s a handful survived into the 1950s. Late survivors were: Withdrawn in 1958: 649, 654, 660 Withdrawn in 1960: 558, 614, 624, 655 Photos of these in CIE days are very hard to find and I suspect that these seven carriages may have spent their final years before withdrawal forgotten in a siding. One photo showing a 6-compartment third in CIE livery is this one by Ernie at Harcourt St around 1951, and I do think it's a GSWR coach: Until yesterday, I thought I had another photo of one in Cork in 1955, also by Ernie: But then Ernie posted this photo, which shows a 6-compt 3rd of GSWR style with only 4 wheels rather than 6. Looking at the photo above, I think that is also a 4-wheeler, likely the same one. I haven't yet worked out whether this is a GSWR 6-wheel coach converted to a 4-wheeler, or whether it's a CBSCR / CMDR oddity. Anyway, I have other plans for my kit for a 6-compartment third, involving some replacement sides. It is likely to become a full brake. There are various options which may spawn a separate thread as they seem to have been modified significantly over their lives, but I'm thinking of something like the nearer one here:

It's interesting that there are also 3 diagram 69 coaches numbered in the 900s: 928 to 930. I guess these would also have been WLWR vehicles. Diagram 69 shows flat ends, which would be correct for the majority of that diagram representing GSWR vehicles. Diagrams aren't always 100% accurate of course, and it may be that 928 to 930 had the same arrangement of compartments as the GSWR vehicles but WLWR features like curved-in ends and steel channel headstocks. I haven't found any photos that definitely show any of these three coaches but they survived until 1955-1958.

The photo captioned 105 must be either 905 or 916, there weren't any others like this. Looking closely at what we can read of the number, and comparing the details with the other photos, I believe it is 905. All three images have the half compartment at the first class end (four images if you include the extra one in my last post). The other carriage of this type, 916, was withdrawn in 1953, so I think it's less likely to be the vehicle seen in 1954 or 1961.

Very nice - thank you! The final 3rd is interesting as it is a 4-wheeler, with some extra trussing added to the underframe where the middle wheelset would normally be. Was it built like this or was it converted from a 6-wheeler, I wonder?

Finally, the three images that show a diagram 69 lav compo in later years. All these photos were taken in 1956 at Albert Quay. Ernie's photo below shows a rather tatty no.541 on the right. It had been withdrawn in the previous year. The roof has a lavatory tank and vents above each compartment, whilst the doors also retain their vents (but the one above the toilet window is absent). The livery is CIE plain green with class designations on the first class only. The shade of plain green was the same as the later light green, considerably lighter than the original CIE dark green with elaborate lining as seen on no.500 in the middle of this photo. The IRRS also has a closer view of this rake, focused on 500 in the middle but showing only half of 541: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511793685 Finally, another of Ernie's photos shows a distant view of 542, which was still in traffic at this time. Zooming in we can see some details including roof vents and lavatory water tank. On the sides, it appears that only the vent above the toilet window is fitted - they seem to be absent on the doors. The livery appears to be the same plain green, possibly without any class designations - it may have been declassified? That's all I've found from Flickr. I haven't yet found any photos of the last surviving diagram 69 - number 545 - which would be my preferred coach to model considering its withdrawal date. I have learnt that the diagram 69 did have lavatory water tanks on the roof for most of their lives, and that CIE plain light green is a suitable livery for the last survivors. As for door vents, it's a lottery! However, there are some other online sources yet to search, including the NLI. I'm still hoping to find some more - I've just stumbled across this better view of 905 which clearly shows it in light green livery with waist line in 1961:

If you are an IRRS member and have a flickr account you can gain access by following this process: https://irrs.ie/photographic-archive/ If you have already done that and still can't see them, then I don't know what's wrong but would suggest you might contact Ciaran.

The earliest lav compo photo I've found on Flickr shows number 527 (diagram 69) in GSR livery in the 1940s. The main subject of the photo is an MGWR coach but we have a nice clear view of about half of no.527. On the part we can see, it has both door and roof vents. The lavatory compartment is cropped off the photo. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509310220 (you'll need to be an IRRS member to see the IRRS images) This photo shows no.933, diagram 73 which as John rightly reminds me is likely to be an ex-WLWR vehicle. Nevertheless it is remarkably similar in style and appearance to the GSWR diagram 69. The class designations on the doors indicate that these vehicles (originally tri-composite) had their second class compartment downgraded to third, leaving just the one first class and 3 thirds. It has a full complement of roof and door vents and a lavatory water tank on the roof. However, it has lost some of the beading on the side. Looking closely it is apparent that the headstocks are steel channel rather than timber. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509172400 This photo dated 1955 shows another of the diagram 73 coaches, in the CIE plain green livery with class designations on the first class compartment only. It does not have a lavatory water tank on the roof. It does have roof vents and most of the vents on the doors survive. The beading has been simplified. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508685953 Next I'll look at 3 photos of 905, diagram 66 and again ex-WLWR. The first is an excellet portrait of the vehicle in 1947, newly-painted in CIE dark green with elaborate lining. On the roof it has a full complement of vents, but there are no vents on the sides at all. The sides have been repanelled with very little beading. The lavatory water tank is visible on the roof. As with 933 it has steel channel headstocks. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508749006 Next up this photo from Ernie shows 905, not as the main subject but off to the right. By 1954 it had been repainted in plain green with class designations on the first class compartments only. Physically it's in the same condition as the previous photo, but we're looking at the opposite side and end. 905 was the last survivor of the GSWR (ex-WLWR) lav compos and this photo dated 1961 shows it in a rake of 3 ancient coaches at Albert Quay. It appears to have received a line along the waist, but may have been declassified by this time. Physically it's in the same condition as the previous two photos. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511721675

So far I have found just 15 photos of these GSWR lavatory composites. They include all 3 diagrams and cover a range of dates. However, in most cases they are not the main subject of the photo, being partial or distant views. It's not always possible to identify which diagram the coaches belong to. The photos show several modifications to these carriages over the years, including lighting, ventilation, water tanks and panelling. I'll start with some photos from books. This image shows diagram 69 no.540 in GSWR days, perhaps when it was new in the 1880s. The photo is reproduced in 'The Great Southern & Western Railway' - Murray / McNeill and in 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' - Coakham and credited to IRRS. It appears to have oil lamps, but no ventilators on the roof. The lavatory water tank is not visible on the roof, and this may have been a later modification. Moving forward to 1924, this image is reproduced in 'The Railways of the Republic of Ireland 1925-1975' - Baker and credited to Rex Murphy. It shows a Cobh-Cork train and the third coach is a lav compo, probably diagram 69. It has vents on the roof and a lavatory water tank, and retains a full complement of 5 vents above the doors and toilet window. Moving into GSR days, this 1931 photo is reproduced in 'Irish Standard Gauge Railways' - Middlemass and credited to L&GRP; unfortunately it is split over two pages. It is probably diagram 69. It has vents on the roof over each compartment, but the vents in the top of the doors have been removed only the vent over the toilet window remains: This photo dated 1938 appears in 'Irish Railways in the Heyday of Steam' - Casserley. Like the image above, there is only one vent on the sides, and there appear to be 3 vents on the roof. Two photos dated 1949 show one of these coaches on the Valentia Harbour branch. This one is from 'Steaming in Three Centuries' - Pryce / McAllister, and shows a carriage in the 1940s CIE dark green livery with elaborate lining. It has a full complement of vents on the roof and the doors, as well as a lavatory water tank clearly visible: The other photo is here, with the nearer vehicle being a GSWR lav compo, with door vents missing. The other coach appears to be an MGWR lav compo. I'll deal with the Flickr photos in another post; they are generally from the CIE era.

The book 'GSWR Carriage Diagrams' (Pender & Richards) shows the GSWR fleet as it was in 1924, including 40 diagrams of 6-wheel coaches. The diagrams are numbered and I'll refer to these numbers - it is not clear whether they were the numbers used by GSWR or whether thay have been added by Pender & Richards. There were 3 types of lavatory composite that were broadly similar to the SSM kit: diagrams 66, 69 and 73. I'll present these in the order they were built rather than the diagram number order. Diagram 69 seems to be the prototype of the SSM kit, and was the most numerous type of lav compo built from 1882 to 1893. It had a 2nd class compartment at each end, plus two first class compartments connected to the lavatories in the middle. As you can see from the listing on the diagram below, no.545 was withdrawn in 1960, while 542, 546, 928 and 929 survived until 1958. Diagram 73 had a similar layout and appearance, but was a tri-composite type built in 1895. It had a 3rd class compartment at each end, plus one first and one second class compartment connected to the lavatories in the middle. Diagram 73 had ends which curve in at the bottom, whereas diagram 69 (and the SSM kit) had flat ends. There were only ever 3 of these, and no.931 of this type survived until 1958. Diagram 66 was the final type built in 1987, and there were only two of them. In this design, both the first class compartments were at one end, and both the seconds at the other end. The two inner compartments (one of each class) connected to the lavatories in the middle. One of the first class compartments was a coupe (half-compartment) with the seats facing the end of the coach. Diagram 66 also had ends which curve in at the bottom. The GSWR diagram book states that coach 905 of this type was withdrawn in 1960, but it does appear in the CIE 1961 carriage register - the last surviving GSWR lavatory composite. Given that the kit represents diagram 69, I should be focusing on that for my model. However, the other two similar diagrams also had late survivors and it's useful to include those in the review.

Earlier this year I acquired secondhand a couple of the SSM kits for GSWR 6-wheel coaches. They are the lavatory composite and the 6-compartment third. I've been trying to decide what to do with them! My modelling period is quite broad but generally within the range 1960 to 1987, which makes GSWR 6-wheelers quite hard to justify. The 1961 CIE carriage register lists 39 6-wheelers in traffic of which only 3 were of GSWR origin - most were MGWR. However, if I wind the clock back a couple of years there are more options. The Quartertown Mill layout I'm building at the moment is a freight branch, but did once see an IRRS railtour. To provide some operational variety I like the idea of a short railtour/excursion train. 6-wheel coaches would suit the dimensions of the layout better than bogie vehicles, and the Cork area was one of the last strongholds of 6-wheel stock in the early 1960s, so I think I could justify one or two. So I have been trying to find photos and information on the late-surviving GSWR 6-wheelers, particularly those which match the SSM kits. In this thread I'll summarise my findings on the lavatory composites.