irishthump

I recently picked up a Supertrain 142 from Wrenneire and a sound equipped decoder arrived in the post for it yesterday so I thought I might take a few pics of the installation process for anyone who isn't familiar with it. It's really not too hard and this might be useful for anyone comtemplating it.

First pic; 142 with the body off.

You'll notice the handrails are still attached. I could never get the hang of removing these and as you know they are a bu**er to put back on! As I mentioned on another thread I have found a way around it. First remove the front cab (the one at the opposite end from the roof grill. Now, you have to remember to release the handrails from the cab to allow you to pull it straight up, you may need to use a very small flat screwdriver to help release it from the body first.

Once that is done I turn the loco upside down (you really need a foam cradle for this job) and release plastic tabs that hold the body on from underneath. It's easier to see/access them if you remove the bogie sideframes.

The tabs are clearly visible in this pic (yes the orange coloured body really helps to locate them!)

The main body and other end cab can then be removed. Remembering again to detach the handrails from the cab sides.

Next job is to install the speaker. I'm using a base enhanced speaker which as you may know will not fit under the body without a lot of work. The metal chassis block needs considerable filing down to make enough room. I'm not prepared to do that under any circumstances! Gareth from MSB recommended this little tip which is to remove the back of the speaker housing:

It is easily done with a small flat screwdriver and it doesn't effect the sound in any way. (At least not to my ears and I have tried the speaker with and without the back casing.)

Like this the speaker is a near perfect fit on top of the metal chassis block. It can be secured with silicone or blue tack. Just be careful of the wires under the speaker, I pushed them down too far and they ended up rubbing on the drive shaft and making an awful noise. I had to remove the body again to correct it!

I trimmed the speaker leads as I didn't want them getting in the way when trying to refit the body, then soldered them to the connection points on the circuit board. These are clearly marked "SP+" and "SP-", red goes to "+" and black to "-".

Then it's a simple matter of plugging in the decoder, or so I thought! All my other sound equipped 141's have Zimo decoders which fit fine, but this one is a ESU Loksound which is slightly bulkier than the Zimo. I notice when I plugged it in that part of the decoder was touching the circuit board....

I wasn't sure if it was metal-on-metal contact but I didn't want to take the risk of a short circuit, so I placed some plastic tape on the circuit board to be safe.

It's normal packing tape, which insulates fine but I will have to keep an check to make sure it isn't affected by heat from the decoder.

And speaking of heat... Ventilation is an issue with dcc as the decoders generate a lot of heat in operation. I found that on the 141's the roof directly above the decoder could get quite hot, most likely because of the space inside the body being so tight. My answer to this was to drill out the exhaust outlet on the roof of the model! After all it's supposed to be a hole and I found that once I did this the body sheel didn't get anywhere near as hot, in fact you can feel the warmer air escape through it. How's that for prototypical!

I then gave the loco a quick test before replacing the body and cabs. Then it was time to play! I'll post a video of it in action soon...

Modern RTR use a lot of 'ballast' ie added metal to improve weight and traction.

 

If all that space and weight was modern gel batteries you'd be on a winner.

And get around the traction issue with rubber tyres on the wheels? Sounds like a plan...

Really looks like the Holy Grail doesn't it?! No need to clean rails, or even to wire track at all. You could even go back to steel track and let it rust rather than weathering it!

But like was already said, this is all dependent on getting battery technology to the point that it can fit into existing RTR models.

That's a hell of gradient, looks nearly vertical!

The very steepest gradients in Ireland were the quarter mile just short of Hillsborough station in the Knockmore Junction side and the cutting just south of Downpatrick station, through which it will one day become possible to travel again by train. These were 1 in sixty-ish - I'd have to look it up.

 

One in sixty - for example - would be one inch rise per sixty inches (or five feet / about 1.5m) length. A model railway will comfortably cope with gradients three times this steep.

What about Killarney station, the bank always looked savage steep to me!

Around about the 6 min mark the you'll see the driver having to rev the bejesus out of 147!

They look great! I don't normally buy RTR Irish coaching stock, I prefer to repaint whatever I can get my hands on, but I'd be tempted by these. You could add them to any rake and they will look the part.

The whole project is great, but I can't get over how good those locos look in N gauge!

Looks lovely, so clean!

Makes me feel like ripping up my own layout....

Glad you got sorted. Are you thinking of adding sound to a 141? Because it's not difficult at all, the worst part is getting the body off the loco.

Glad to help!

Here's a pic showing one of the tabs holding the body on. Like I said, easy to see when the body is orange! I forgot to mention it's best to remove the bogie frames to get at them.

Great presentation - like Thomas the Tank Engine for grown-ups..

 

Wait! You mean Thomas the Tank Engine isn't for grownups?!!

Hi Sulzer,

Hope this helps, this is the way I tackle it myself.

Remove the cab at the front end first, that is the opposite end to the roof grill. Remember to just unclip the handrails from the cab or you will break them off, it just slips out of the little hole at the corner of the cab side window. Most people recommend removing all the handrails first but I found them a nightmare to put back on, so this is a way around that.

The cab should just pull straight up but you may need to use a very small flat screwdriver to ease it away. What I do then is turn the loco upside down and if you turn the bogies to the side you will be able to see the small tabs which hold the body on. They will easy to spot if the loco is in an orange livery! You can then use the small screwdriver to help release the tabs, the body plus the cab at the grill end will then lift straight up. (Remember to unclip the handrails from the grill-end cab as well before removing the body!)

I find his much easier than trying to squeeze the body sides to get it to unclip, as you said you seem to need to use a lot of force to move it!

Thanks Enniscorthyman, I new I had seen it mentioned somewhere on the forum!

Do you find much of a difference with the new speaker? I was contemplating the bass reflex myself but I assumed it would be too big....

It's just a matter of setting up the CV's on the decoder properly and using the same decoder in the two locos, I run a pair of 141's together and when they are uncoupled they run in perfect unison.

I realise that, and I have 3 141's all fitted with the same decoder and they run flawlessly. But as was said you can get differences in performance after a while even with 2 identical locos. True this can be sorted with the basic cv's in most cases but the more drastic ones you have to resort to setting up separate speed tables and I've read of some US modellers (very experiences DCC users) who would rather turn one of them into a dummy unit than faff around with speed tables. Granted they're running consists of up to 4 locos so the loss of power is negated.

If you are using DCC you don't need to strip out a loco, just double head them and have twice the pulling power

Yeah but I've read about US modellers turning one loco of a pair into a dummy because they couldn't get them to speed match.

Gutted sounds drastic! How much would need to be done to enable a MM 141 to free wheel, yet leaving as much of the running gear as possible untouched, in case the loco was to be returned to working order?

I suppose the weight of the 'dead' loco in a train would be the issue then.....

Simple enough. Just replace the wheelsets with ones without gears on the axles. If you're using DCC then you can still operate the lights. But you're right, the weight may be an issue.

Guys,

Gareth from the ModelShop recommended replacing the fitted speaker in the 201's with a bass enhanced one. Has anybody here done that?

I'm just curious if there is any "major surgery" required to make it fit!

Guys, thanks for all the positive comments, I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

Hi irishthump,

 

Video was just great,really starting to like dcc sound.

Impressed with your mk3 super train rake,can I ask

Did you do those yourself or are they shop painted.

Love the layout and thanks in advance John-r

John-r, the MK3's are my own repaints. I used a rake of older Hornby Mk3's which I believe are a little short to be prototypical but I think they turned out well. If you look on my workbench thread you can see how I went about it - http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/77-Graham-s-Workbench/page2

As for the DCC sound I'm sold on it myself! I know it's not everybody's cup of tea but I really enjoy the "driving experience" with sound equipped locos.

Lads,

Just got my 201 Decoder from Model Shop Belfast, here's a little video of her in action...

210 gets delivered to the engine shed by 086 before first startup. She takes on diesel at the new refuelling point then she's tested hauling a rake of Mk3's. Enjoy!

I used a 4mm thick foam sheeting used for floating wood floors. I picked up a pack of 12 3x2 sheets for €20 in Homebase in Nutgrove about a year ago. Easily cut and as Dave said it's useful if there is any irregularity in your baseboards.

But as said, once ballasted it does nothing for sound!

 

Exquisite - love the wet, drizzely, irishness of it all!! Stunning work!

Yes it certainly looks the part.....

Guys,

Most other model railway forums seem to have one and we are getting a few DCC queries.

Anyone agree?

Brilliant! Thanks a lot, both locos separate now!

Glad to help!

You'll have to take one of them off the track like I said because they both have the same address now.

Make sure you select loco 3 then press "PROG" until you see "PROG MAIN TRACK" on the display. Then the first option will be to program the address.

No you haven't set them up for doubleheading as such, you have just given them both the same address. The best thing to do is take 220 of the track then reprogramme the 141 to whatever address you want it to have. Personally I use the loco number itself as it's easy to remember.