irishthump

That looks excellent. I am doing one at the moment following the Everard Junction method

which I'm finding a nightmare, I wish I'd seen yours first!

Yes I'd seen that video. Although he does get a lovely finish on the hardstanding I did'nt fancy the idea of having to use a Dremel to gouge out the side of the tracks.

I love it!! Brilliant layout, looks fab! What did you use for the concrete on the loco shed floor can i ask, im looking to do that exact finish in my loco shed,

Thanks!

The shed floor is 5mm foamboard (I cut strips of thinner card to fill between the tracks). For a concrete finish I used grey acrylic paint mixed with a little plaster which gives a nice rough texture. I used a normal bag of plaster from Woodies. As far as I can remember I toned down the finish with a thin dark wash sprayed on with my airbrush as it was a little light and too clean looking!

Long time since I did any work on the layout, but I went mad placing some figures on the diesel shed this evening!

Lovely job, they really look the part!

The reason was the unavailability of Loksound chips at reasonable prices. I know he is working on an improved version of Zimo which will allow GM engine notching to be varied at full speed and hopefully better capture the 071 at full cry.

The current Zimo decoders support the manual notching feature, the soundfile itself has to be modified to allow manual notching to be used.

It may be a matter of opinion, but I have been working with Mr Soundguy since 2007 to enable Irish soundchips to be available and find that the larger Bass Reflex speaker (when left intact) is best for the 071 sound while the smaller Bass Enhanced speaker is much better than small round speakers. Bass Enhanced speakers fit the MM071 models without any problem but some filing is needed to fit them to the MM141/181s. Its a matter of choice really but I think the full sound effect is worth achieving even if this effect is muted at exhibitions due to general acoustic interference. Mr Soundguy is working continually to improve the sound from the Zimo chips which are in continual development.

 

It is worth checking out the video Irish Rail Archive Volume 5 GM Powered which features 001, 071, 121, 141, 181 and 201 Classes starting/stopping/in full cryto remind us what the prototype actually sounds like! Reproducing these effects in 4mm/foot is the challenge.

The actual sound from Mr Soundguy's chips is not the issue, the recordings are top notch and are most likely the best available at the moment. The main issue is how the soundfile is set up on the decoders themselves. Like I said, if he simply made manual notching available on the Zimo decoders then they would be pretty much perfect.

To be honest I don't understand why he switched from Loksound to Zimo.

Thank you very much for posting that. It sounds really great and the second video confirms the rapid change in sound to match throttle speed inputs.

 

So just to confirm I have understood a few points:

 

1. The loco in the two videos is LokSound v4.0 with a modified 071 sound file supplied by Olivia's models (i.e. pre-burned with the modified file)
   
2. Olivia models changed the prime mover sound for an EMD 567 from another file they had
   
3. The spooling up and down sounds were automatically matched to throttle settings (i.e. not manually notched on 2nd video)
   
4. The breaking sound was automatic
   

 

Have I got that right?

 

And the BMS Zimo chip does not spool up quickly with early throttle inputs. One of the things I like about the MM LokSound 071 decoder is that the sound spools up almost before the loco moves like the real thing and automatically notches up during early accelerations (i.e. rapidly matches speed changes). From what you are all saying the BMS Zimo chip does not do this which seems a major omission.

 

PS: Forgive, but did real world 181s sound much different to 141s?

Yes, Noel, That's pretty much all spot on.

I simply asked Olivia's Trains to replace the engine sound on the 071 sound file.

I did'nt use manual notching at all in the second video, the spooling sounds were the result of the throttle changes.

The braking sound is automatic but it's adjustable or can be turned off altogether.

The Model Shop Belfast chip just is'nt as responsive, I think part of the reason for this is that the Zimo chips link the throttle changes to the actual speed of the motor rather than to the throttle setting.

The 141's and 181's were fitted with different engines and there was a noticable difference between the sound of the two. The 141's were originally fitted with the EMD 567C while the 181's came with the EMD 645E.

Sorry lads, had them set to private! Try now....

Here's a couple of quick videos....

The first one just has the loco standing still while I run up through the engine notches. The second one is 142 shunting some container flats. It was difficult working the throttle while trying to film everything with my phone but hopefully you'll get the effect of the engine sound!

[video=youtube;_NTj-YS61WU]

Hi, Noel.

That's my loco in the link that Glenderg posted. I have to agree with Dhu Varren that the Loksound decoder has much better response when driving it. The problem with the Zimo decoders from MSB is that the engine sound does not respond quickly enough to throttle changes, which would'nt be so bad if they had manual notching but they don't!

As for the engine sound in the Loksound; it is pretty accurate. It's an EMD 567 which is what was originally fitted to the 121 and 141 class locos. Dhu Varren is quite right in pointing out that it's a 16 cyl rather than an 8 cyl engine which was fitted in the 141's but it's pretty close.

Like you said it does'nt really get a chance to spool up to hi revs as it's just shunting, but it sounds great when notched right up! With the Loksound decoder you can have the loco stopped and then turn the throttle straight up to say speed step 10 and the engine sound will go straight to a high notch which is very realistic. That just does'nt work with the Zimo decoders where the loco will be up to speed long before the engine sound catches up with it. You literally have to adjust the way you drive the loco to how the decoder behaves.

As for installing the speaker, here's a link to my workbench where I describe how I did mine in detail. It's a simple enough job.

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/77-Graham-s-Workbench/page10

Noel, you could also try remapping the notching feature to lower function buttons. I understand it's a bit involved with Loksound decoder, but it might be worth a try.

I find these two functions (F18 notching up and F19 notching down) very awkward to control. They seem to have a life of their own. You have to turn F18 on and then wait until the delivered revs are attained but then quickly turn it off to stop the upward progression.

 

Then to turns revs down you have to engage F19 and wait as it steps down until idle is reached. When the loco is in motion it steps down to idle rather than the correct rpm for the current loco speed. It might have been nicer if F18/F19 could be used to step up and down one rpm range per press of the FN key rather than switching on a function that had to work its way through the motions of staged rpm climbing until stopped. It is probably a restriction imposed by NMRA DCC standards for controlling functions that was drawn up long before sound became popular. But as a user I find it too clunky to bother using and find it unrealistic. Or perhaps I have misunderstood how it is meant to be used.

That's why I had mine assigned to "one push" function keys, the notching is much easier to control.

I think it stems from the fact that most function keys on DCC controllers are set to "latching", that is once you press them they stay on until pressed again. This is actually a setting on the controller and not the decoder. Some controllers allow you to change the latching settings for function keys, the Bachmann Dynamis is one that I know of.

Thanks for the feedback. I have a 071 LokSound 4.0 and found the manual notching awkward to use once the loco is moving. Its fine stationary other than the delay waiting to bring the loco back to idle. It's seems to need to complete a cycle and cannot be stepped right down on demand, or am I missing something?

 

Having said that I find it very impressive and reminiscent on my early memories of CIE GMs.

When using manual notching on the Loksound you have to press the necessary function key once to notch up, then press it AGAIN otherwise the engine will continue to notch up. The same applies to notching down. Now this can be awkward on the Loksound as they assign notching to high numbered function keys. I don't know what controller you are using but on my Gaugemaster Prodigy to access functions above 12 for example I have to press SHIFT+F1+F2 and then do the same to deactivate the notching.

That's why when I bought my Loksound chip from Olivia's Trains in the UK I asked them to reassign the manual notching to F4 and F5.

Noel,

I am not on DCC sound yet. Can you explain what the manual notching function is exactly? Sorry for my ignorance.

Thanks

It allows you to hange the engine revs independently of the loco's speed. You can rev the engine right up to simulate trying to get a heavy train started or you can lower the revs to simulate coasting.

Chatting to somebody recently they expressed a preference for the Zimo sound files of Irish GMs rather than the LokSound 4.0 compatible recordings. Does anybody who has had or listened to both have a view on this?

I have both Loksound and Zimo decoders. I think the sound files on the Zimo chips are better quality recordings, also they are taken from actual Irish locos while the Loksound equivalents use genric engine sounds from US locos that use the same prime mover as Irish locos.

Having said that I prefer the Loksound decoders. Zimo's motor control is second to none but Loksounds are much faster to respond to throttle changes and they have a manual notching feature.

I'll give the servicing a go, Its about 14-15 years old, good physical nick, how or where do I get my hands on extra pick-ups for the 201?

You'll have to make them yourself using copper or brass strip. Here's a video showing how to fit extra pickups to another a class 55; the basic design is pretty much the same for all Lima models.

[video=youtube;-8UQ6wiowoI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8UQ6wiowoI

Like Riversuir said servicing the motor would be the first think I would look at, then strip down the motor bogie and give it a clean and lubricate it.

Also check the existing wire connections and resolder them if necessary. It's possible to add extra pickups which would be a good idea if you're planning to convert it to DCC.

It's quite possible to get Lima motors to run well, but the performance will be nothing like a Bachmann or Athearn.

Thanks Dave et al. That particular TMS decoder comes with a wires only harness, no plug at the loose end only the 9 pin plug that mates with the decoders pcb socket. AAMOI I bought a few extra 9 pin harnesses so I can wire more locos to the harness before committing them to a specific chip, and so I can swap decoders to match the motors in different locos. Many of the main decoder vendors seem to have variants of their decoders with 9pin pcb sockets.

Careful, not all makes of decoder use the same size 9 pin plug. I have decoders from Gaugemaster, DCC concepts, Digitrax and Lenz and they all use different size plugs!

As I understand it the problem arises when there is a PayPal dispute, where the sender now has no proof that the intended recipient has received, only proof it got to parcel motel leaving sellers open to fraud.

Can't see how that's right. You can only collect your parcel with a code that is sent to your mobile phone by Parcel Motel.

Thanks irishthump. The main culprits are metal wheels on Bachmann loose coupled mineral wagons (steel coal wagons), and some old lima BR Mk1s in Blue/Grey 70s livery (possible donors for IR EGVs). By thread do you mean the thickness of the flange, or the depth of the flange or other?

Thanks. Noel

By the thread I mean not the flange but the part of the wheel that actuallt touches the rail. If these are are to wide (or thick if you like) they will easily cause a short. Like I said the old Lima's are notorious for this....

Aha, there is a little bit more to DCC track wiring conversion then I had thought. Crossings and double slips!!! Now do I use isolating switches, or electronics (ie reversers)?

 

I've been testing DCC on the layout for a few weeks now with DCC drops to the middle and upper levels working ok. Haven't gone near the terminus yet which is still DC. However I noticed the crossing linking the dual track incline linking the upper and middle level is causing intermittent shorts as metal coach wheels run over the plastic frog briefly bridging the circuit. Temporary solution has been to isolate the incline using the existing old block section wiring switch, but a more permenant solution may be needed. Any suggestions from experience?

 

Glad I have left permenant track ballasting until the layout is totally finished and went with foam underlay initially. Makes pulling track up for wiring changes easier.

The short is usually caused by the tread of the wheel bridging the gap between the rails at the frog of the point on insulated points. Are you using live or insulated frog points?

Also, are the coaches causing this problem older models? The wheels on Lima and older Hornby MK3's have a very wide thread which bridges the gap easily. The best option is to change the wheelsets, easy enough with Hornby but the Lima wheels have a shorter axle. Replacements can be found but they're not cheap.

DC makes the loco go back and forward. DCC makes more than one go back an forward at the same time.

Now now, Glenderg. You're being a bit economical with the truth there....

With DCC you can make 2 locos go in different directions on the same length of track. Try doing that with DC. Oh, it's possible but not without a load of switches, isolating sections and complicated wiring.

To be honest I'm amazed at the reluctance of DC users to even consider DCC. I was at one exhibition a couple of years ago and I asked the operator of a particularly nice layout if it was DC or DCC. He snorted this reply; "Oh no it's DC, sure why would I want to complicate things?" Now I dread to think what the mess of wiring under the layout looked like! I then tried to explain the advantages of digital control to him, and he replied that he could do anything that DCC could do with his layout. So I used the example above of 2 engines crawling towards each other on the same length of track and he did'nt believe you could do that with DCC....

My point being that a lot of long standing DC users seem reluctant to even learn about DCC, with the result they don't know what they're missing....

How does the Parcel Motel work then? Do you put their address in the delivery info & they tell you when its dropped off at the nearest machine to you??

Yeah. You'll get an email and a text from them telling you the parcel has arrived. It costs €3.95 per parcel and still often works out cheaper since many sellers offer free UK shipping.

Did some minor detailing on a couple of covered wagons that I picked up on Ebay. I added some handrails on the doors and nose grabrails and added DCC controlled lights.

I wanted to install a headlight in the front door and a working mars light in the upper headlight. Space can be a bit limited so I used micro leds from Wickness models that I fixed to the back of the headlight lenses. I then sealed the back with black mastic tape which holds everything nicely in place and stops any light from bleeding into the cab.

I used Lenz Standard decoders which give flawless running even with the bog-standard Blue Box motors. The motors were given a good clean and the sintered metal wheels were replaced with nickel silver replacements.

The only glitch was that initially I wired the headlight to the white decoder wire (F0 forward) and the mars light to the green wire (F1). Unfortunately only the white and yellow outputs can be programmed to work like a mars light. So I was forced to rewire the mars light to the yellow function wire and re-map it to work on F1.

Here's a short video of them working....

I replaced the Ringfield motor in a Hornby HST with one form a CD drive a while back. Like Dhu Varren said the result is far better.

Here's a link to my workbench thread that shows it running - http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/77-Graham-s-Workbench/page12 Scroll to the bottom of the page.

As Dhu described the gear off the old motor shaft is to big so I cemented a small piece of brass tube over the shaft for a tight fit.