Junctionmad

You misinterpret what I said, firstly I dont think MM is going to do something or not do something simply because he feels a bit pi%%ed of with a few people. He will act and realise product, for which he feels there is demand and therefore money to be made. Thats right and proper in a market economy what helps the Irish modelling community is to increasingly develop finer representations of Irish railway models in all its senses , to " lift" our game as much as MM has. That ensures that this commercial suppliers are incentivised to create high quality models. Otherwise we decend back to repainting LIMA diesels. If there is a consensus of opinion that their are issues with the MK2d super train, then its perfectly right that people should use this forum to vocalise their opinond , in a mannerly way. I dont think PM is going too run off behind a bush and stop producing models, just to spite us !!!!!!!

We cannot expect that a customer base of about 300 in Ireland and some 100-200 elsewhere will sustain high quality RTR in the future. Models are getting significantly more expensive as labour costs rise in China, hence we have to except that the economics of RTR may infact not work anymore for this niche . MM tapped into a desire at a time and place, and many went out and bought vast arrays of models, such that they are unlikely to buy these volumes again. Hence , I suspect we may never see any more RTR of that ilk. Therefore we must turn to what we CAN do. rather then return to the repainted BR diesels of my teens, we now have a active and competent small group of " manufacturers" , no reason that a combination of etches, resin, 3D etc cannot be used to achieve the result go putting Irish models on the " table" personally I feel this would be a terrible hobby , if all it was was taking pre-built RTR Irish " outline " models out of boxes, it would quickly become a rich mans hobby The systems and mechanisms are there for people to make kits into superb models with running qualities way in excess of RTR ( fully compensated chassis for example) . MM doesn't have any sort of lock on that

Let me say I have no skin in this particular dispute as I dont see the specific issues with the MK2d super train model as it applies to me ( yes it has its faults, but it is what it is) what I was merely saying is this (a) If you feel you have a " product defect", that absolutely you need to complain directly and privately for that defect to be fixed. a public complaint is the last resort (b) However, if you feel a particular offering from a commercial company, is less then you expect, then that is different and public discussion and debate ( including whinging) is entirely appropriate , no more then lambasting Ford for the defects of a specific model. I never understand the view that MM Ltd is somehow a fairy godmother to the Irish modelling scene. I fully expect that PM is in it to make a profit , even if its a small , medium or large one . He's not loosing money to support us !!!!. One should not engage in frivolous negativity of course, but where their is a consensus on a particular defect,( or lack of feature) thats a valid point of discussion ( like the colour etc ). Having met PM, I fully suspect he is aware of the criticism and praise he receives and has more then enough personality to weather the public debate. Given the healthy cadre of small supplier to the Irish scene, I suspect models that MM may never do, will appear in the future and in fact its clear theres room for example for someone to do low volume kit runs of 141s etc

What I was arguing is that however you look at it, Rail activity in the Uk has vastly increased , especially in Railfreight, it matters not really HOW that was achieved , or the arguments behind that . The fact is it has and is happening and is forecast to increase Your view or my view as personal travellers on that system are somewhat irrelevant, look at it as a " black box". SO UK railways, which in say the 80s, looked depressingly similar to Irish railways, are now experiencing growth, massive modernisation , reopening routes etc, faster train speeds etc ./ This is especially true for freight whereas Irish railways continues its slow spiral into irrelevancy. I mean removethe couple of commuter routes and very little is left It this continues rail will end in ireland as it will simply run itself into a full stop. something has to change dramatically

Indeed , my argument is precisely not about nationalisation versus privatisation ( of all flavours j it's an argument about what has shown to result in significant rail growth. I saw the NIR programme , but it's not really valid , simply because it's a descent into the lowest service /lowest cost approach , akin to IR . this is because there is no economic incentive for a nationalise rail company to aggressively seek growth ( i.e. wheres the freight success story on NIR for example)

I'm sorry. Journey time improvements are a matter of record , passangers numbers are a matter of record , rail freight volumes Are a matter of record. Other then that your just arguing politics , ( ie private versus public) I'm arguing for what has shown to work, even if it's an imperfect success , it's still a success.

I'm sorry, these are broken record complaints. Journey times , for example, on WCML have of course improved , even with the half baked upgrade debacle , journey times elsewhere have also improved , these are matters of fact Leave aside the actual privatisation process, undoubtably that had several issues , the big one being railtrack . But what's there now is in effect identical to the LUAS , ie franchised operation of a public asset. It's very successful with LUAS , as it has been in the uk. I dispute that today in the uk , that public money is being poured into private companies. Yes at the sell off , in effect ROCs and infrastructure sell offs lined private pockets. But that has stopped. Today in a lot of cases it's a struggle for TOCs to succeed, and all Gov subsidies are going into network rail, which is a state company. ( and those subsidies are reducing, while capital spending is growing ) Again ticket pricing is irrelevant, it's purely a function of the elastic demand. If your customer base is growing , your pricing model is right. ( as a general rule) Again looking at the numbers , they don't lie. More passangers then anytime in its history , more railfreight by 2030 then anytime in its history. The golden age of uk railways wasn't the 1930s , it's likely to be the 2030s I agree Ireland isn't the same, but unless we change something , there will be no railways in 20 years in this country. The nationalisation model has comprehensively failed IMHO

Actually I would disagree. Privately complaining allows a company to " contain" issues. Public complaints have far greater effect , as they not only inform the manufacturer , but also build a complaint " consensus " that can be very hard for manufacturers to ignore. For example ,if I complain on a forum and as a result ( you) decide to forgo a purchase , that's much more damaging then a private complaint , where ( you) proceed to purchase without seeing the complaint If you want to raise a ruckus, the best place is " in public " etc

Why, do you disagree with the uk subsidy to rail infrastructure on principle.

That's irrelevant. The inefficiencies in BR would have killed the extra investment , it's whataboutery Again, your argument is irrelevant( as it's only money ) , the numbers simply don't lie. UK rail is on course to be bigger then anytime in its history. 20-30 years ago you'd be laughed out of the room , if you suggested that Whereas in Ireland .............

Because EU rules allow for infrastructure investment , which is what network rail is, it's a purely public body. Aer lingual on the other hand is in effect a private company. For example airport infrastructure can be invested in by the gov.

Isn't that great, rail infrastructure is being funded properly I mean uk railfreight is expected by 2030 to exceed any figures ever carried on uk railways ever. Who'd have believed that , 20 years ago !!! N

If the passagner side is a mess, then why are record numbers of passagners , greater then anytime in the past , being carried on uk railways. I don't see " the mess " . The numbers don't lie and their seems to be no political imperative from any uk party to change things. The system works In fact it's a return to the " big four" type setup The model has now " extracted" far more public money for the railway infrastructure then ever before. Surely that's a great thing, it's now on a par with roads etc, that's a very clear statement of intent

A rake of say 20 , empties , a few with the doors hanging down , behind a "A" class with a tatty brake van , would bring back memories of me day dreaming out the school windows and watching the beet and empties on the way into and out of Waterford in the early 70s

I see average track access charges for ordinary freight ( non coal) in the uk are around equivalent €2 per kgtm, whereas IE infrastructure have recently stated that it beleives appropriate equivalent track access here I'd around € 9.50 kgtm .. Well well, funny that

I was just looking at some facts and figures for railway activity in the UK, past and present. Whatever you think, privatisation was the best thing to happen to BR. UK railways are busier now then anytime in their history. More people then ever in its history are now carried by UK railways, track is being relaid, doubled etc Rail freight in tonnes carried is now back to levels seen in the 50s with a forecast that this will double by 2030, consumer freight , like goods for the multiples is returning to rail and the market is now limited by track paths and loco resources rather then demand Wow. Just what is going wrong with irish railways ??

I suspect today's CWR maintained by computer controlled tampers etc is where it is maintained , is at a far higher standard then anything in the past. I wouldn't assume track in the gsr days was much better.

No steam locomotive was ever really capable of sustained 100 mph in the way that modern engineered locos can. Today's tolerances, material science , cad and modern Lubrication are what would have to be re engineered back into Victorian engineering You can read the challenges the preserved railway locos in the UK face in accessing main line passenger track over the next decades, network rail are looking for steam locos capable of upto sustained 90 mph running !!

Modern flat bottom rail is considerably heavier and stronger then rail in the past. Bullhead was typically 80 llb/yard modern rail is upwards of 110 llb/yard. Axle weight is only one aspect , train speed has a considerable impact on necessary track strength. In reality with around 1/3 of a ton between them theirs little difference but a 201 travelling over 100 mph is stressing the track far greater then a 800 class at 70-80 , even taking into account the asymetric pounding that stream gave tracks as opposed to diesels The gar was just as cash strapped as Cie and could do just as cheapskate job as cie did in later years. The was no golden era of steam in Ireland unfortunately , the rail network was always partially clapped out

just forget about the prototype gauge issue, 4mm track is produced in 16.5mm ( 00) 18,2mm (EM) and 18.82mm (P4) PECO track of course is actually H0, i.e. 3.5mm/foot also grade track as " best looking "

hazzard a guess at the gauge at least not all are 16.5mm

see http://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/RP-25%202009.07.pdf most RTR loco wheels are RP 25/110, i.e. ,110 inches tyre width. or about 2.8mm ( 2mm thread width) , always useful to know as you need twice the crossing flange way gap plus 0.2mm to run a wheel through a point without bumping, so for PECO the flange way is at 1.3, hence its happy with wheels that are 2.625mm or greater ( to a point ) . Finescale wheels, with tyres under 2.5mm will struggle. p4 wheels have a tyre with of 2mm, S4 has 1.8mm thats why 00-SF , with a flange way of 1mm and a overall gauge of 16.2mm at the check rail, is an attempt to build points that handle RTR Rp 25 wheels as well as some finer scale wheels typical of kits and scratch builds etc

Indeed, one wondered at the decision of the GSR to produce them. it must have been a reaction to the designs being built interwar in the UK. the " sure well have one of them too, irish complex "

here an interesting challenge for track nerds. identify the model track make and gauge, left to right ( apologies if you've seen this before) Note all track is commercial , in that its not specially hand built. ( i.e. all components are commercial )

Yes but simply that the gauge is out, doesn't then mean everything else should be out. Im sure wed all prefer it was 21mm, but we are where we are. My comments were based on the look of the track. Code 100 was brought out because at the time flanges were ridiculously deep and you needed that rail height to ensure they ran. today thats not the case. Imagine if you locos were 33% over scale !!. In fact with PECO 75 and some bodging of the points, weathering , good ballesting etc PECO 75 can look extremely well what I mean, is that in a new build Electrofrog should really be the default choice, ( and modified to have polarity switching down by the point motor ) given the choice as it provides better electrical pickup ( as well as looking marginally better too). personally i find most shops in Ireland have so little that I want , that I mail order almost everything, no wonder my parcel motel bill is creeping up All this may be too " rivet counting" for some, but personally , I always find it perplexing that people want absolute scale realism on the loco and rolling stock, but compromise widely elsewhere and especially track. I suppose it comes down to whether you model railways or model trains .