Junctionmad

while waiting to start my new layout, Im starting a few signalling and track projects. One Id like to do is to produce a Shapeways version of the typical CIE square disk ground signal. I have plenty of pics of the front, but none of the reverse or working sides. Anyone have a drawing thanks Dave

Common misconception. Proper crimp generates a gas tight connection. Soldering causes work hardening and brittleness and cannot be relied upon as mechanical connection It anyplace where there is movement or vibration, soldered but mechanically unsupported joints are very fault prone. Crimping is far superior

The general term for these types of connectors is " insulation displacement " connectors. 3m have over 40 types in their catalogue . ( all called scotchloks) There's nothing wrong with ID connectors once you understand what they are designed for, especially re wire size and type. The most Robust types of connection with excellent electrical conduction is the crimp. Better then solder. It's why they are used on aircraft , military and car wiring looms

jeepers, those wagons must be doing a scale 100mph. I'm not sending me parcels with em.

absolutely not, strict adherence to scale, prototype operation is a must for the serious railway modeller

it can be made work in a kind of toy train method, ( from my childhood train set) , where you reverse back oner the uncoupler and as it uncouples , stop the train dead, the wagon then rolls way under its own inertia. its very unprototypoical and hard to achieve. Thats the advantage of delayed uncoupling systems be interesting to see how it works

No hump yards remain in the uk. ( simply wagon load doesn't exist anymore )

Normally for tension locks to uncouple there has to no pressure on the couplings and then the loco draws forward. If the wagon is already under the force of gravity, then the tension locks hooks will not pop up. If the wagon isn't under the force of gravity then it will uncouple but not roll away. This is a " gedanken " but hmmmm

can tension lock couplings work in a hump situation. I cant see how it could , since you dont have delayed uncoupling like kadee etc as for retarders , i suspect magnets will work far to well !!!

im perplexed in how you will handle uncoupling with Tension lock , as you cant get delayed uncoupling and then how will you break the vans. I suppose you could fashion a rail retarder rather like modern US practice, but in the UK hump yards , a lot was done by manual braking. It has been suggested in H0 that air jets could be used to retard the wagons,

Your collection of Black and Tans has increased remarkably from the last time I saw it ?

Sorry john. Do you mean that the calling on was used to signal a route into a bi directional loop, ie almost as if the signal was on a bracket Rather then the standard callin on , that pointed to the same road as the home above it. Since signal 7 the calling on. In claremorris is past any crossover. I'm not sure how it would be used as anything else other then calling on

The signalbox.org forum answered my questions on everything bit the calling on Mayner could you expand on what you meant in that regard. Are you saying that cie stopped using calling on signals and re designated them as something else , are you saying that specific signal now controlled running into a loop , rather then allowing movement into a occupied section. I always understood callin on , like what was used to release locomotives at Hueston , once the pilot had removed the train. I don't believe it was used to signal blocking back into an occupied section The linked signal 60 A/B was set according to the route set. Ie the lever was effectively reused to control two different signals depending on other levers. The plate on lever 60 reads 29 or 28 24 or Nil , so I read that that one ground disk was activated by lever 60 , if 29 or 29 were reversed , or of 24 was reversed , then 60 B. Nil presumably meaning 60B was activated if none of the previously conditions were met. I only assume A refers to the first line and B to the second line on the plate Claremorris had 4 boxes and a ground frane. , the north box is still there at the head of the goods sidings I'm abandoning my limerick junction plan and working up a layout based on claremorris with all junctions working passagner service into the 90 s ! So I have to re signal it for passagner working and I'm basing this on 60 s signalling diagram, never if in real life passanger services had ceased well by then

Come on. There must be some experts out there

I recently completed a comprehensive survey of Claremorris station buildings heres one for the signalling nerds, This is my shot of the signal diagram, which was restored to represent the " original " when the box was closed, it should be high res , Interesting that " original " is not actually original , and only represents the box around the 80s. the O'Dea Collection shows the diagram when the Ballinrobe branch was in operation , and the box was completely utilised. Also many signals had been reduced to ground signals as well Anyway Heres my questions (a) What do the colours of the track diagram represent , i.e. the blues, greens etc (b) I couldn't ascertain this on the day but I presume ALL the red sections are track circuit bulbs, in various pictures Ive seen some were lit up. The question here is they seem to be in pairs , i.e. both light in the colour band would be illuminated , except where there is only one red band in a section colour ( if you get me) I presume the little number in between the track circuit bulbs is the circuit number . © Certain ground signals are paired , i.e. have a look at 60A and 60B to the west of the box. There is only one lever in the farm , i.e. 60, , clearly 60B is associated with the catch point, but is it associated with level 60 ?? Similar with 50 A and 50 B, at the east end. Is it that they just alternative as the lever is reversed in the frame (d) The point near the Turntable is marked H.P. it used to be controlled by lever 31. (e) Note the fouling bars on 29 and 24, it must be that these never got track circuits maybe because they were so close (f) interesting while the goods sidings are shows, there is an additional track parallel to the turntable , which is left out on ALL signalling diagrams including the one from the 60s !! , I wonder why (g) Note signal 7 ( near the goods yard entrance) was a calling on signal , ( which were rare in Ireland ) , I presume this was to facilitate running an engine back again an occupied train standing in the platform, AM I right here, what operations on this station would it have been used for (h) several signals have the suffix A.R, which I though might be Automatic repeater , since the block instruments are gone, I presume this meant there was repeater indicators in the signal box Thes were added between 1960 and 80. (i) Whats does the shadow signal symbol on some of the AR signals 62 , etc mean ( i.e. the white semaphore in the off position ) Note interesting that Claremorris had several yellow ground disks ( ie could be passed at danger), anyone know the rules as to when such ground signals could be passed. I just love this junction , its a signalling mecca ( well it was sniff sniff)

parcel motel is brilliant, I use it about twice a month virtually since they started

IN modern electric or hydraulic point motors, both detection and FPL is implemented in the point motor assembly, even though it is logically separate in mechanical systems, you have several systems on the go, Firstly the signal box, had a mechanical connection to physically move the points, Then for facing points on passenger lines, a facing point lock was added, Think of it as like locking your front door , even though the standard latch is already holding the door closed. FPLs, mechanically operated , could utilise two methods of movement, One is that the point and the lock are separately connected to the signal box and operated by two levers. a black painted lever for the point movement and a blue painted lever for the lock. As you can see from the lock, its virtually like a bolt on a door. ( there were other types as well). The second method used one signal box lever to move both the lock and the point. These were called " economical " FPLS and were very common in Ireland, but less so it the UK, where they had a bad reputation . In this case an arrangement of cranks and an " escapement" ( or cam ) caused , as the point lever was thrown, first to release the lock, then move the point and then re-insert the lock. These levers were painted black and blue. In certain cases, before the advent of track circuiting , fouling bars were also added, especially when the signal man had difficultly sighting the points and couldn't easily tell where exactly the train was standing. In this case the action of the FPL ( either sperate or economical ) raised a long bar above the rail head, On depressing that bar the train prevent the removal of the lock and hence the operation of the points. IN those cases incidentally , the rodding could be damaged. It also prevented the signalman from also moving the switchblades if a train was standing on the bar. They were used in different situations, and sometimes called clearance bars. ( for example in engine run rounds where the signalman couldn't see the engine standing in relation to the point blades. Most clearance/fouling bars were converted to track circuits and electrically locked to the lever ( hence the array of pushbuttons over the levers in many signal boxes). However I saw fouling bars on many points well into the 90s on IE. Interesting , my impression was that Irish railways used the bar on the outside of the rail , but UK more often had them inside http://catalogue.nli.ie/Search/Results?lookfor=railroad+claremorris&type=AllFields&submit=FIND&filter%5B%5D=format%3A%22Photo%22&filter%5B%5D=digitised%3A%22Digitised%22 Shows claremorris signalling in the 1960s, you can see there are two fouling bars on the diagram (points 29,24) which are funny as they are very close to the signal box and I find it hard to understand why they were installed , but it could be because the switch blades were so close together . see http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/ireland/claremorris.htm As you can see from the second link, there were NO seperate FPLs , all were of the " ecomonical " type, certainly in excess of 10 or more because of the preponderance of facing points in bi-directional running. Im not sure whether CIE and IR etc , remained true to the original pre nationalisation Board of Trade rules on facing point locks, perhaps someone could comment. I know that signalling rules began to seperate in the two jurisdictions over time. IN a complex junction like claremorris, there were lots of FPLs. Interesting as was typical in signalling , crossovers were activated by a single lever. That meant that two points and their associated locks were operated in one pull. That must have been tough on the signalman. Futhermore ( as you can see in the signal box.org link), often signals were slotted with the detection bars on points , so that signals could not be released if the switch bars didn't complete the move. IN many cases these were converted to electrical interlocking . FPLs were not really part of the interlocking system, they were solely a means to prevent unexpected movement of the switch blades , they did not as a rule have fouling or clearance bars as well, as these provided a different protection

Tks john.

One thing that puzzles me slightly is looking at pictures in the 50s/60s you can readily see nice and neat facing point lock covers , where as in later picture of the 80s etc. you see no lock covers. Did cie remove FPLs , or just they got sloppy. I know many where pf the " economical type " so I wonder were these different or what You can see what I mean here http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/ireland/claremorris.htm

no I was referring to irish railways. post 2000 , whats there to model , a few DMUs, no freight, no track complexity,

Well the upside will be the model track work will be simple, about two points needed for the whole layout, you can control the single railcar under a simple computer control and have it shuttle back and forth, you wont need much stock, just keep re-arranging the railcars sets !. Freight will consist of .... nothing, permanent way will be a couple of modern JCBS Modelling the stations will consist mostly of open space filled with model weeds, and old ballast, chuck around a few points of old rail and sleepers to model the authentic derelict look. plenty of model grass and weeds , decay ,, and of course a few axle counter mushrooms and 1 ctc signal , that should model waterford anyway personally , for me , it will always be 1980 dear dear me

I think IE policy of railcar only is a dead -end. They have so little flexibility to respond to demand changes in the current stock configuration. What we are seeing in some places increased frequency to replace longer trains and in others , massive overcrowding at peak times. All in all , a very bad way to run a railway. I dont think any other country has an exclusive railcar only policy like ireland. The 071 class has really only a few years left and the 201s are so unsuited to general duties , given the improvements in passenger numbers again, IE could easily have refurbed mkIIIs and put them behind a select number of 201s etc. Furthermore freight movements will dwindle to a halt as locos die and rolling stock become unusable. The patient has undergone so much surgery its dying on the hospital bed. I cant actually really bear to look at the state of the network these days, Its being dismembered piece by piece, massive loss of track flexibility , no possibility of restoration of freight, locked into one type of passenger stock. dear dear me

Noel, I think we can safely seperate the Train Set from Model Railways. Today the train set is probably almost extinct and kids are a small part of the hobby. This can be seen in the expense now involved in building any sort of a collection. This is especially true once you stray away from mainstream Uk stock. SO if you want to collect and model CIE/IR/IE etc, you're into expense that rules out kids. IN that regard , what we now have is a pure-er Model Railway hobby , mainly adult orientated, This is not dissimilar to other forms of Hobby modelling, all of which are more sophisticated, finer detail and more expensive. As Railway Modelling,, the hobby is in rude health. Mind you what future generations of retirees are going to model from their memory, railcars, destroyed infrastructure and no rail movements , I dont know. I suspect this hobby will be locked into the 1970-2000s perpetually.

What a travesty. The removal of the limerick service can only be months away, given only one platform. Who could have imagined a 6 platform station now reduced to this. I'd prefer if it was closed. I can't see the redundant cabin lastly too long

bought despite Bulloids argument that US engines were better, how'd that work out for you CIE !