Colin R

You are right about Peco, just to do a yard length of flexi track of 21mm gauge we would be looking at tooling cost's of up to £20,000 t o start with, As Mayner points out, build your own track is more than likely the only way to go at present. Colin

Hi guys I have been down this road, the answer I got was there was not enough demand for it, but I am sure some one once did 21mm gauge plastic track base but it was more expensive that either EM or P4 as I recall. I will ask again to see if I can find out how much 21mm gauge would cost to set up from someone like Peco. Colin

Broithe that is brilliant thanks Colin

Funny you should mention new jobs, I start a new one on Tuesday, but I have two large A4 manuals, a large website to look through, as well as the induction process to undertake before they let me loose. To be honest most of it is just common sense, but those of us of a certain age then look at the younger generations after they have done something stupid and ask why don't you use the common sense you where born with, it appears from the famous Health and Safety manual, that you now have to try and teach common sense and to add insult to injury they make you take a test on it

I can agree with you Rich, a couple of items which I purchased a few years ago had to go back since neither of them worked from day one properly, I have had replacements since and they work OK, but if anyone things that RTR is the only solution to good running, I would have to disagree. One item was a Hornby SR 4-6-0 tender loco and it ran for about half an hour and then it just packet up, I found out that the gears had split and the teeth broke off inside the chassis itself, I did get a replacement for it, but not a direct swoop from Hornby as they cancelled that model due to the number of problems they had with it. Besides fettling a model, is all part of the learning curve of getting it to run better.

Hi JHB, I won't give up totally on 21mm gauge the reason I say so is that having seen what has been done in the recent 009 market with a basic 3D print, etch and resin kits, we can't be far off of having a 21mm gauge kit as well. I am not saying 3D prints are the full answer, one of the biggest hassle to get 21mm gauge more established is having those parts which make doing it as easy as RTR 'OO' Gauge. While I agree it would be great to have compensated loco chassis etc and all the bells and whistles that go along with the fine scale modelling but there has to be a point when you have to say enough is enough, I am taking the view that I want something up and running ASAP, years ago when I was knee high to a grasshopper the local model club had both EM and 'OO' layouts, one guy from the EM section one day told me a big secret to some of the models he was using they where converted OO gauge body shells and RTR Hornby-Triang rolling stock. Like so many people at the time I had this idea that if you modeled in EM, it all had to be scratch built and this made a big difference to me. Now to my way of thinking why don't I used this idea today for building in 21mm gauge locos and rolling stock? So I will not apologies if anyone sees a BR mk 1 or a GWR Hornby coach on my Irish based layout as it is for working out just what is or is not possible, my idea is while It is good to have the fine scale standards, I do think that this also puts more people off of having a go than is healthy. Regards Colin

Hi Tony something you could consider is a cross over of Omagh and a test track, as a suggestion why not build Omagh with very short sidings to take say no more that four wagons and the platform loop no longer than say 4ft, this would create a big 21mm gauge shunting puzzle layout, this would allow you to play trains if you like but at the same time let you work your locos and rolling stock with a timetable as well, I am working on the same idea for an Irish/IOM style 00n3 layout. Colin

To be honest David if i didn't have so much invested in 4mm 00n3 and all my other stuff then I would have gone 7mm many years ago, if you want a simple 21mm gauge shunting layout in 4mm it is possible in 4ft x 2ft two points and 4 meters of track will get you going, OK it is not a continuous run but it will give you something to work on and to have some fun shunting wagons or coaches with one engine in steam. I would agree with David it is so important for the Irish modeling community to show just what so many people are missing out on, the biggest problem is of course if you wasn't brought up on the Irish railway system then it will be harder to get into the mind set of the Irish Railway operation, as for me i got caught and was dragged kicking and screaming into that world occupied by the Donegal and I have to say what a great place to be, it has the best of both worlds, British influence, but with a great amount of that famous Irish charm and that Black creamy liquid too. Colin

Hi guys I have been considering this myself as I really fancy a 21mm gauge layout, nothing fancy you understand, just something very simple to start with. One bit of advice I can give since I have build some 009 track work and that is don't rush the first point or section of track. The second bit of advice is to build some cardboard jigs for the track and point work, cardboard from the wheatie bangs or other breakfast cereals is good enough for this. For best results use a bit of 9mm or deeper plywood as a base for the give me a few days to sort all this out and I will try try and do an article on how to build track over Christmas.

What a great list you sure beat me with the number of broad gauge kits, I am sure I have more 3ft gauge kits awaiting building in the shed. I will need to go and check them out tomorrow. As for my broad gauge kits well that is another matter, I don't have that many. I will certainly go and get my hands on a LMS Jinty to convert to 21mm gauge so I have something to run and then there is that Bachmann L&Y 2-4-2T to repaint and detail into a B&CDR loco. I would love to see some of those photos you mentioned Wrennerie. Regards Colin

Hi Guys I am thinking about next year already and I have this idea for a small 4mm scale 21mm gauge layout using the C&L track products. Now the plan is to build it in the 1930 to 60's period, I was wondering if anyone knew what rail section was in use the most at that period and how many screws per chair where used as well. Sorry if this is a repeat for something I have said before but I can't find the original thread on this subject. Regards Colin

Hi John was that the Nine line kits or the Whitemetal Backwoods kits? One issue with the Backwoods wagons is you could only use one of each body section if you wanted a square kit. I am in the process of designing a couple of C&L resin van body shells for my own layout, I am having some issues with getting the air vents to look right at present. Colin

Hi Wrennerie, what ever you decide to do will be the correct decision for you, to be honest you are the first person on this list that I know has any of these kits, I wonder if this will encourage others to step into the daylight with there Backwoods kits, I have a number of their Cavan and Leitrim loco kits to build at some point, but I have always wondered who has brought these kits in the past, I would like to think it has been a lot of you guys on here. Not wishing to put any of you off, but I have been told these Backwoods kits are a bit of a pain to build , so are not for the faint hearted or if you want to rush the building process (hence the reason why I haven't pluck up enough courage to start a build yet). I look forward to hearing from anyone on here who may have a backwoods kit as it has always been difficult to find out just how many have been sold or where these kits have ended up. I am talking to Pete regarding this range, but due to family issues he has had to put the whole Backwoods range on hold, so if I hear anything you guys will be the first to hear about it, I realise that you could never sell hundreds of these kits, but I am keen to see what can be done and what new locos could be produced in 00n3 in the future. Colin

I hope you are going to build that lot? if not let me know. Colin

I have always like UK light railways, but the pull of the Irish narrow gauge railways has been much stronger and the Donegal in particular.

Not sure on the wheel base but the wheels are do able at 10.5mm dia from Markits, might be a problem with axle length.

Yes I agree I think the wheels are 2ft 71/2inches dia or 800mm to be correct they are based on the standard O&K 110HP design. But getting the rest of the details will have to wait unless some one has a drawing of them. Had wonder about the old hornby 0-4-0 GWR/Industrial Tank they used to do as a basis.

Right had a gathering up of my Irish Standard gauge kits and they are as follows:- 2 S class 4-4-0 Tender locos 1T2 class4-4-2T 1 E class 0-6-0T 1 GNR 20T Brake van kit Plus for some unknown reason a spare GNR Tender kit 2018 will, subject to me having the cash, will see me purchase a few more Irish kits from SSM :- 1 J15 and 1 'Bandon' Tank are both on that list. There are a few others which I will get my hands on a couple of those Bachmann 4-4-2T tanks which some one on here done some wonderful convertions on. I have also forgotten the number of old 4mm scale bogie coaches I have to convert to Irish types well they are the old Farish bogies coaches which will do for now as temporary stand in stock. Then there is the good stock, which I don't have a great deal of at present, but I hope to improve on that side of things next year as well. Colin

Oh Mayner I wished you hadn't have posted that link for 4mm Industrial locos, it is one of my true weakness's I also have another link to share http://www.modelrailways.tv/4mm-scale-page1.html This also has industrial steam, I have a feeling there are a couple of other 4mm scale Industrial loco manufactures out there as well, but I don't have a link for them at the moment . I haven't found a kit or a model that looks anything like the pair of locos at Down Patrick any one have a suggestion? Regards Colin

You are so right when it comes to heritage and preservation, it is one thing to look at Thomas the Tank as a away to bring in the money but heritage groups also have a a duty of care for the items they hold, I suspect you would have mass apoplexy if some one painted a GWR pannier tank in BR lined blue or some other modern livery such as purple and white, as you say John, it only takes one mistake before some one else thinks that is the correct way of things. While we can't due to various Health and Safety Regulations can't use Red or White Lead in our paints anymore we do need to try even harder to get the correct shade of colour as used on a locomotive during it days while it was working. As an example and I am sure this is not right, recently I was told that the GNR(I) only adopted the Blue livery after some one from the Caledonian Railway decided to move to Ireland with some spare paint, I don't think for one moment that is true, but that is the sort of story which make things so much more difficult for later generations to work out what is historically correct, also I don't think the old CR and the GNR(I) blue are the same shade anyway. As for the your kit Wrennerie I think on one of the other forums ( RM Web???) some one was asking if anyone had one for sale as I am not sure if they are still available. Regards Colin

Well just had a great surprise, I was looking for something else and came across two small white boxes, blew the dust off and low and behold some old long lost SSM kits. they are an GNR S class A T2 class loco and a GNR(i) 20 ton Brake van. No wheels or motors for any of the kits, but that is not a problem as they can be got from Branchlines in the UK. I was not sure when I started getting into the Irish Model scene but it appears I got them back in 1989, I wonder if this is record for the longest a kit has not been made up? Colin

Hi Guys excuse me if I have put this in wrong section, may be the mod could move it if it is, but I came across this on a website auction site http://www.gcrauctions.com/index.html They have a few Irish bits for sale I am not selling any of them by the way just putting this up for anyone's interest. http://www.gcrauctions.com/sale237/lot186.html It is an ex NCC loco number plate http://www.gcrauctions.com/sale237/lot194.html Another item of interest http://www.gcrauctions.com/sale237/lot260.html Regards Colin

A nice collection of bit there Eoin

Hi Gerhard You don't have to be embarrassed Gerhard there is just so much stuff out there on the shelf as such, that there is very little point in trying to make the bits that do the work, but to use that time to make the the pretty bits we all look at. As for the white metal castings these can still be purchased from the 5.5mm Society from Mike Savage at:- http://www.5andahalf.info/pdf/prices.pdf email him on m.savage80@ntlworld.com The loco kit itself from Worsley Works http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/NG/NG_Irish.htm As for wheels & axles I would suggest Markits:- http://www.markits.com/ The catalogue can take up some time to look through so make sure you have a cup of Tea or Coffee to hand before you start Motors and gear boxes can be obtained from Brian at Branchlines sadly he has no website but you can contact him at the following email address:- Brian Osborne on sales@branchlines.com Ask him to send you his downloadable motor and gearbox sheet, I think you will find a lot of information on it Another supplier of motors and drive units is Nigel Lawton 009 at http://www.nigellawton009.com/VeeTipper.html These aren't the only suppliers out there, I am sure there are others, But I have not dealt with anyone else so far. Some one who may be able to help out is Roxey Mouldings at http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/ or dave@roxeymouldings.co.uk In the case of useful research to help fellow modellers I have come across this:- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/1121-motors-and-gearboxes-notes-on-types-and-uses/ I haven't read it but it looks useful For gearboxes have a look at this site:- http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/motors-gearboxes-oo-ho-scale/ One last place to look at is the 3SMR site:- http://www.3smr.co.uk/motors.html As you can see so much of it is now made it is just a case of working out what you want and buying it all in. 3SMR are one of the places I get my 12mm gauge axles from Hope this lot helps Colin

OK not sure how this is going to work out but here goes I have taken some photos in not ideal conditions I may add but these are the Mike Chinery Bogies as you now get them I hope these help. In the kit you get the main bogie casting itself two side frames a motor mount casting and some etchings for the flyweights. Colin