Last Up Goods on Burma Road

[Leyny]

Many of you will be familiar with the shot of B145 at the link below (I've linked to this rather than attached it here as you can zoom right in on this), taken just before she left Sligo with the last ever Sligo to Limerick Goods, bringing the curtain down on the Burma Road. I've a couple of questions on the make up of this train I'm hoping somebody here can answer.

Can anybody tell me what type of wagon that is behind the loco? It's certainly an odd looking yoke, like a garden shed on rails. There's also video footage of this train in the Irish Railway Archive Vol 1 DVD from about 20 years back which has a side on view of this wagon. Also, has anybody ever produced a model anything like this? If not, I could have a go at scratchbuilding one if I knew what it was and could find some drawings, it nearly looks scratchbuilt itself!

Also, you'll see further down the train there are 2 20' Bell Containers. What were these carried on? With the train being loose coupled, did they have some way of disabling the vacuum brakes on the standard 20' flat and just haul them along with the unbraked wagons? Or were they unbraked 20' flats, if such things even existed? 

B145 at Sligo 31/10/1975

Any info gratefully received. 

[Galteemore]

The van doesn’t look a million miles off this. If so, Alphagraphix do a kit….

 

[Noel]

Not sure if that was a loose fitted formation. 1st item looks like a PW van, 2xH-Vans, 2xBELLs on 20ft flats, and 2x20ton brake vans. Assuming the PW van was fitted and the 2-VANs were fitted by 1975 the whole formation may have been fitted which seems paradoxol with two brake vans tailing off the end.

[Mayner]

The train would have run as a loose coupled unfitted (handbrake only) formation, the 20T flats are likely to have been 25436-25983 Series 20T Flats with steel floors introduced in the mid-1960s or 27101-27278 skeletal flats introduced in 1970.

Fitted stock can be run with the vacuum or air brakes isolated, "modern' fitted wagons like the cement bubbles and container flats often ran in loose coupled goods trains until CIE went over to fully fitted fixed formation liner train operation during the mid-late 1970s.

The second Brake Van was likely to have been worked South to Claremorris or possibly Limerick for operational convenience. The Burma Road was operated as part of the "Southern" up to closure with Limerick responsible for allocating locos and brake vans for the Limerick-Sligo and Limerick-Claremorris good trains.

There is a good account of the final days operation of the Burma Road and other lines closed on the same day in the February or June 1976 IRRS Journals

 

[jhb171achill]

On 4/10/2022 at 7:54 PM, Leyny said:

Many of you will be familiar with the shot of B145 at the link below (I've linked to this rather than attached it here as you can zoom right in on this), taken just before she left Sligo with the last ever Sligo to Limerick Goods, bringing the curtain down on the Burma Road. I've a couple of questions on the make up of this train I'm hoping somebody here can answer.

Can anybody tell me what type of wagon that is behind the loco? It's certainly an odd looking yoke, like a garden shed on rails. There's also video footage of this train in the Irish Railway Archive Vol 1 DVD from about 20 years back which has a side on view of this wagon. Also, has anybody ever produced a model anything like this? If not, I could have a go at scratchbuilding one if I knew what it was and could find some drawings, it nearly looks scratchbuilt itself!

Also, you'll see further down the train there are 2 20' Bell Containers. What were these carried on? With the train being loose coupled, did they have some way of disabling the vacuum brakes on the standard 20' flat and just haul them along with the unbraked wagons? Or were they unbraked 20' flats, if such things even existed? 

B145 at Sligo 31/10/1975

Any info gratefully received. 

That leading vehicle is a converted horsebox, done up as a mobile tool van with, I think, space for an ovenight crew to stay in it. It spent the last few weeks of the loughrea line in Loughrea station aganist the old carriage shed buffer stops. After both this line and the Burma Road closed (on the same day) it seems to have vanished. I will post a pic of it later.

 

On 4/10/2022 at 8:36 PM, Galteemore said:

The van doesn’t look a million miles off this. If so, Alphagraphix do a kit….

 

This, on the other hand, was an entirely different vehicle. Another mobile tool van, but this time a GSR outside-skinned 1930s goods van derivitave. It remained in "flying snail" green well into the 1980s; the last time I saw it, it seemed to have been laid up in Kildare.

[jhb171achill]

Here’s this old horse box yoke on the last Sligo - Limerick goods. Photos courtesy of Barry Carse from our book “Rails Through The West”.

And yes, as Mayner says, the container flats, as per usual practice, were running loose-coupled within a loose-coupled goods train.

[Noel]

@jhb171achill I  vaguely remember reading somewhere that when unbraked loose coupled wagons were run mixed with fitted wagons like Bell 20ft flats, that the fitted wagons were for some reason always arranged and the tail of the formation before the brake van. Seems the opposite to logic where 2 or 3 fitted wagons coupled direct to the loco (ie head of the formation) could actually be hooked up to air or vacuum hoses, leaving the tail of the formation dependent on the brake vans for safety. Johnathan do you have any words of wisdom on this topic?

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, Noel said:

@jhb171achill I  vaguely remember reading somewhere that when unbraked loose coupled wagons were run mixed with fitted wagons like Bell 20ft flats, that the fitted wagons were for some reason always arranged and the tail of the formation before the brake van. Seems the opposite to logic where 2 or 3 fitted wagons coupled direct to the loco (ie head of the formation) could actually be hooked up to air or vacuum hoses, leaving the tail of the formation dependent on the brake vans for safety. Johnathan do you have any words of wisdom on this topic?

Yes, it absolutely IS the opposite of logic. Certainly, looking through my own records, this seems to be the case in a few pictures I've just looked at. It is the case here too. I have a dim recollection too of an image of a mixed coming into Loughrea with the one coach, one "H" van, one container flat and the guards's van - I THINK being in that order, which would bear out what you say.

However, I cannot verify if this is coincidence or not, still less what the reason might have been if it wasn't coincidence. Jury has to remain out on that one. And, indeed, it's a secret hiding in plain sight - in all the obsessive perusal of photos that I've done over fifty years or more, I never noticed that!

[Mayner]

On 10/10/2022 at 4:42 AM, jhb171achill said:

Yes, it absolutely IS the opposite of logic. Certainly, looking through my own records, this seems to be the case in a few pictures I've just looked at. It is the case here too. I have a dim recollection too of an image of a mixed coming into Loughrea with the one coach, one "H" van, one container flat and the guards's van - I THINK being in that order, which would bear out what you say.

However, I cannot verify if this is coincidence or not, still less what the reason might have been if it wasn't coincidence. Jury has to remain out on that one. And, indeed, it's a secret hiding in plain sight - in all the obsessive perusal of photos that I've done over fifty years or more, I never noticed that!

Wagons/freight cars in goods/freight trains that shunt/switch at intermediate stations/yards were and still are usually marshalled in "station order" behind the locomotive to speed up shunting. 

In the case of the Burma Road goods wagons for stations Collonney Jnt-Claremorris were marshalled next to the loco wagons with Bell Traffic marshalled next to the van, traffic for the Mayo Road would have been detached from the train upon arrival at Claremorris and wagons for Tuam, Athenry, Gort, Ennis and Limerick attached to the front of the train without disturbing the Waterford Bell wagons.

During the 'transition era" during the mid late 70s CIE sometimes ran trains of modern fitted wagons "loose coupled" with brake vans, the best examples are probably>

1. The Platin-Ballinasloe-Roscommon Bagged Cement which ran as a fully fitted 20 wagon train between Platin & Althone before being split into two 10 wagons loose coupled trains with brake van to reach its destination.

2. Dundalk-Adelaide Cross-Border Goods Dundalk-Adelaide goods trains continued to work loose coupled with modern fitted wagons after North Wall-Dundalk goods trains converted to fully fitted Liner operation. The Dundalk-Adelaide goods trains tended to be more varied in formation than CIE liner trains carrying container, keg, cement and fertiliser traffic on the one train. Dundalk involved considerable shunting and trip movements between the station, Barrack St yard and the Harp Larger Brewery siding plus Irish Customs examination of traffic arriving from Northern Ireland in the pre-Customs Union era. and staff changeover between CIE & NIR loco crews.

Similarly principals apply with 'modern' fully fitted goods/freight trains, in its final years the 12:00 North Wall-Cork Liner conveyed Limerick traffic between North Wall and Limerick Junction. The loco driver and Limerick Junction crew were not impressed one weekend in Oct 2001 when they had to make two shunts to detach the Limerick traffic from the Liner because the Limerick traffic because the Limerick wagons were marshalled in two separate cuts delaying the departure of the Liner.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

It is 47 years ago, today, that the closure took place of the Burma Road, Listowel - Ballingrane Junction, Ardee and Loughrea branches….

I got to Loughrea and Ardee by rail, but sadly not the other two (though I was in Foynes by rail two or three times…. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Leyny]

On 9/10/2022 at 3:55 PM, jhb171achill said:

Here’s this old horse box yoke on the last Sligo - Limerick goods. Photos courtesy of Barry Carse from our book “Rails Through The West”.

Only occurring to me now to ask JHB, do you know if this thing carried a number or would it only have been considered a box on a numbered 20' flat?

[jhb171achill]

It would have had a departmental number ending in “A”.

I’ve a note of it somewhere, it’s in the form of something like 543A.

[Leyny]

Thanks JHB. I may have a stab at scratchbuilding it at some point, taking advantage of the fact that if there are no good photos of it around, nobody can point out the flaws in my version. 

[Mayner]

Getting a bit pedantic B145 hauled the last Down Burma Road goods according to the WTT the WLWR down road was from Sligo to Limerick & Waterford Irelands Longest continuous main line even if it involved a reversal at Ennis Junction

In its final years of operation the Sligo-Limerick and Limerick-Sligo goods trains basically operated as fast freights only calling at Ennis, Gort, Athenry and Tuam en-rout before becoming an all stations stopper serving Kiltimagh, Swinford, Charlestown and Tubbercurry on the Burma Rd

[Leyny]

20 hours ago, Mayner said:

Getting a bit pedantic B145 hauled the last Down Burma Road goods according to the WTT the WLWR down road was from Sligo to Limerick & Waterford I

Cheers for the correction Mayner. I was going by the article below but a Working Timetable is the bible on such matters. Although I knew all of Waterford to Sligo had originally been the WL&WR, I didn't know it was all regarded as the one line. General convention would be that the down direction on any line is from the place of greater significance, I suppose once they regarded it all as one line, as Limerick-Waterford was already the down direction, they had to align to that. 

http://www.westontrack.com/history01.htm