Where to find images/drawings of Waterford & Central Ireland Railway rolling stock?

[Flying Snail]

36 minutes ago, Rob R said:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000590012 W&CIR van just behind the erstwhile WL&WR N0 34

 

 

Excellent find - I have been browsing the the Poole collection on the NLI hoping to catch something like this, but I completely overlooked the W&L Extension pics. 

 

[Rob R]

4 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

Excellent find - I have been browsing the the Poole collection on the NLI hoping to catch something like this, but I completely overlooked the W&L Extension pics. 

 

Many hours of browsing (night shifts!) using lots of random search terms.

I found that using place names as a search term was quite productive for railway bits (Try Foynes or Portrush - not for the W&CIR though), setting the date filter to the 1860-1920 narrowed it down a bit.

[Mayner]

Quite a treasure throve, especially the loco drawings and makers photos. 

[Mayner]

Although mainly interested in the Midland I bought a copy of a GA drawing of a WCIR 4w "Second Class Carriage" to get a better understanding of the type of 4 wheel carriages bought by Irish companies during the 70-80s. There is also a more modern WDLR 4w brake in the catalogue which is probably next on the list.

I decided to "colour-in" the drawing to give an impression of the WCIR 'lake livery' and provide some contrast between the paneled areas and mouldings, I tried to re-produce the graphics in a similar style to the 1879 original

The coach had an overall body length of 25' on a wheelbase of 14' a similar length to the WDLR Brake and 4 compartment 4w coaches built by the GWR in the early 1900s.

The most interesting thing about the coach is the absence of brakes! the coach was introduced long before power braking and block working became compulsory.

.

The coach is listed on the drawing as 799 (a worker or order number) no other order numbers are listed on the drawing, its difficult to establish at this stage whether the coach was a one off or part of a larger order.

I suppose the next job is to re-draw the coach a 5 Compartment third.!

The panelling style on the ends is not dissimilar to the 4W van coupled behind No 12

[Mayner]

My impression of a W & C I Rly  five compartment Third Class Carriage based on the Metropolitan drawing of the 1879 Second.

Apart from the harder seats ,Third Class passengers would have had less legroom than those that could afford a First or Second Class ticket with an internal compartment width of 4'10" and poorer lighting with 4 compartments sharing two Oil Lamps.

In GSR days the Macroom had a 5 compt. 3rd with a similar lighting arrangement though with gas rather that oil!

I will place higher-resolution copies of these drawings in the resource section.

 

[jhb171achill]

I think the Macroom ones were six-wheeled, so might have been 28-30ft.....

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I think the Macroom ones were six-wheeled, so might have been 28-30ft.....

There is a photo of a Macroom 4w 5 Compt. coach coupled to a Macroom 6W 5 Compt coach in "Irish Standard Gauge Railways Tom Middlemass 1981.

Curiously the 4 wheeler appears to have been fitted with gas lighting at some stage (by the GSR or GSWR?) while the 6 wheeler retains oil lighting.

The panelling detail above the windows on both the W&CIR and Macroom coaches appears similar possibly with Metropolitan supplying coaches to both the W&CIR and CMDR

 

[Rob R]

Looking at a couple of photos being discussed on another thread I suddenly realized that there may be a couple of W&CIR Vans in plain sight.....

Donkey 01

Donkey 02

Rob

[Flying Snail]

The lettering is faint on the lefthand one but it appears to my eyes that it could indeed be WCIR. Although the lettering is lower down on the wagon compared to the pictures from the W&L Extension you posted a while back. The wagon design, with the two mid-height cross beams does look very similar too!

Edited August 16, 2023 by Flying Snail

[Flying Snail]

My New Irish Lines  (Vol 10, No 4 - Nov 2024) popped through the letter box today - and there sitting on the cover is a fine photo from @jhb171achill of Cyril Fry's model of the Waterford & Tramore four wheel third No 4. According to the inside cover it was built for the Waterford and Central Ireland railway in 1878, sold to the Waterford & Tramore in 1900. Now, the interesting thing is that this carriage is different to that shown in the HMRS four-wheeler diagram that @Mayner based his drawings from earlier in the thread (that HMRS drawing is also from 1878) - Fry's only has two oil pots on the roof (instead of four) and the panelling is noticeably different. Could we assume Fry had seen the real thing or had access to a drawing/photo when producing his model, making this a third authentic carriage design to go with the two HMRS drawings?

 

By the way - the cover also a nice picture of Fry's model of Waterford & Tramore's Bury Single too!

Edited December 13 by Flying Snail
edited for clarity and spelling

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Flying Snail said:

My New Irish Lines  (Vol 10, No 4 - Nov 2024) popped through the letter box today - and there sitting on the cover is a fine photo from @jhb171achill of Cyril Fry's model of the Waterford & Tramore four wheel third No 4. According to the inside cover it was built for the Waterford and Central Ireland railway in 1878, sold to the Waterford & Tramore in 1900 in 1878. Now the interesting thing is that this carriage is different to that shown in the HMRS four-wheeler diagram that @Mayner based his drawings from earlier in the thread (that HMRS drawing is also from 1878) - Fry's only has two oil pots on the roof (instead of four) and the panelling is noticeably different. Could we assume Fry had seen the real thing or had access to a drawing/photo when producing his model, making this a third authentic carriage design to go with the two HMRS drawings?

 

By the way - the cover also a nice picture of Fry's model of Waterford & Tramore's Bury Single too!

Fry built from official drawings where he could get them (usually the Chief Draughtsman’s office in Inchicore).

I’m unaware of any he just guessed at, so I’d say this thing had a prototype as shown.