equipment on board the typical EGV or GSV

[Sean]

when i was younger I always thought the EGV/Attatched to most trains was simply a luggage van and never gave too much heed to the idea that it might be doing a bit more than that.

 

Typically this seems to have been a diesel generator and a steam boiler but to get a bit more specific, just what was fitted to these vans? Particularly the dutch rebuilt vans and mk2 EGV's  I am interested in but lets open the discussion to a more broader one to emcompass all the irish power and heat vans which may be often overlooked until last when building a collection but are often essential for a prototypical rake.

 

is there any information on the make and model of the type of generators that could have been fitted? i note that downpatricks site lists FG wilson generators as the source of power in their mk2 coaches,, however i cannot find much comparable information on whats in the southern stock of a similar vintage.

Sean

Edited March 12, 2023 by Sean

[exciecoachbuilder]

18 minutes ago, Sean said:

when i was younger I always thought the EGV/Attatched to most trains was simply a luggage van and never gave too much heed to the idea that it might be doing a bit more than that.

 

Typically this seems to have been a diesel generator and a steam boiler but to get a bit more specific, just what was fitted to these vans? Particularly the dutch rebuilt vans and mk2 EGV's  I am interested in but lets open the discussion to a more broader one to emcompass all the irish power and heat vans which may be often overlooked until last when building a collection but are often essential for a prototypical rake.

 

is there any information on the make and model of the type of generators that could have been fitted? i note that downpatricks site lists FG wilson generators as the source of power in their mk2 coaches,, however i cannot find much comparable information on whats in the southern stock of a similar vintage.

18 minutes ago, Sean said:

when i was younger I always thought the EGV/Attatched to most trains was simply a luggage van and never gave too much heed to the idea that it might be doing a bit more than that.

 

Typically this seems to have been a diesel generator and a steam boiler but to get a bit more specific, just what was fitted to these vans? Particularly the dutch rebuilt vans and mk2 EGV's  I am interested in but lets open the discussion to a more broader one to emcompass all the irish power and heat vans which may be often overlooked until last when building a collection but are often essential for a prototypical rake.

 

is there any information on the make and model of the type of generators that could have been fitted? i note that downpatricks site lists FG wilson generators as the source of power in their mk2 coaches,, however i cannot find much comparable information on whats in the southern stock of a similar vintage.

 

Hi Sean, not 100% sure, but I think the generators in the vans were Cummins engines. 

 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

when i was younger I always thought the EGV/Attatched to most trains was simply a luggage van and never gave too much heed to the idea that it might be doing a bit more than that.

 

Typically this seems to have been a diesel generator and a steam boiler but to get a bit more specific, just what was fitted to these vans? Particularly the dutch rebuilt vans and mk2 EGV's  I am interested in but lets open the discussion to a more broader one to emcompass all the irish power and heat vans which may be often overlooked until last when building a collection but are often essential for a prototypical rake.

 

is there any information on the make and model of the type of generators that could have been fitted? i note that downpatricks site lists FG wilson generators as the source of power in their mk2 coaches,, however i cannot find much comparable information on whats in the southern stock of a similar vintage.

Sean

The earlier ones were “GSVs” = “generating steam vans”. The boilers were, I believe, under the brand name of “Swirlyflo”.

In later days the diesel generators were of several makes. Cummins rings a bell, yes, possibly Perkins too?

ttc, of Tara Junction, would be the expert on this, I would think…,

[Sean]

The google machine is telling me that the FG wilson gennys in general used perkins engines and heres a further elaboration;

 

FG seem to be an Irish based company and both are a subsidiary of caterpillar now, very plausible that these were more widely used than believed, its a good starting point for me,  Im strongly thinking about building an inexpensive sound capsule to suit these vehicles.

[Mayner]

The F G Wilson genset in the Downpatrick generator van is a modern portable Generator Set and quite different to the generator sets used when the vans were in CIE/IE service.

The CIE/IE generator van fleet went through engine/generator changes during the life of the vans as engines/generators wore out. 

Its likely that BREL (British Rail Engineering Limited) was likely to have been involved in the specification and supply of the generators originally supplied with the BR Vans, MK2d (Supertrain) and MK 3 coaches, possibly Perkins or Leyland.

The generator vans may have been fitted with "Detroit Diesel" generator sets during the 80s as a result of CIEs bad experience with Leyland engines in its Atlantean Bus fleet during the 70s.

The 2 stroke Detroit engines were reliable but thirsty, possibly leading to a shift to the more economic Cummins Engines during the late 80s/90s.

One of the most noticeable thighs about CIE/IE trains during the loco-hauled era was that the generator vans almost created as much noise as the loco.

 

 

[Sean]

This is a great bit of info a definitely what I was looking for,

would the generators have been of a standardised nature once they started to replace them? ie when switching to cummins would they have fitted the same model of cummins across the entire fleet in order to reduce their parts inventory?

 

were they all of a similar size in terms of footprint and output power? Mostly i am interested in what was in the re built dutch vans although the project could easily replicate  any of the GSV's with the right sound recording. if they all used a similar sort of engine at any given time then of course that would greatly cut down on the required amount of work and research.

[Mayner]

Railway/transport companies such as CIE/NIR/Ulsterbus tended to carry out heavy maintenance work including engine/generator overhauls in house up to the early 90s when it became fashionable to outsource-maintenance.

Visited Inchacore works a number of times during the 70s-80s diesel engines were overhauled-re-built in house, engine/generator overhauls were outsourced to 'approved suppliers' in recent years, cuts down on the number of highly skilled maintenance staff and parts inventory, same principal applies with modern railcar maintenance.

Proabably best to contact the RPSI or some of their carriage volunteers, they have a Dutch Van 462 and to MK2 Brakes fitted with Generators https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/82/462-dutch-van

[exciecoachbuilder]

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

Railway/transport companies such as CIE/NIR/Ulsterbus tended to carry out heavy maintenance work including engine/generator overhauls in house up to the early 90s when it became fashionable to outsource-maintenance.

Visited Inchacore works a number of times during the 70s-80s diesel engines were overhauled-re-built in house, engine/generator overhauls were outsourced to 'approved suppliers' in recent years, cuts down on the number of highly skilled maintenance staff and parts inventory, same principal applies with modern railcar maintenance.

Proabably best to contact the RPSI or some of their carriage volunteers, they have a Dutch Van 462 and to MK2 Brakes fitted with Generators https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/82/462-dutch-van

Yeah, there was a workshop beside the ramps, where they used to overhaul the generators, I think that it was called the parlour.  I'm open to correction, but I think that the Detroit diesels were more of a bus thing than railway. Paul. 

[Sean]

PLENTY of videos around of Cummins, Perkins, Wilson etc generators around but with a massive variance in sizes,

 

cummins nt400 seems a very common type of genny from the 70's-2000ish era of manufacture, particularly the nt400 line which i am seeing a lot of listings for.

 

What kind of power output would these things have actually had in order to be able to reliably power a full train?

would this be a good ballpark guesstimate of the type of thing i am looking for?

 

Sean

Edited March 18, 2023 by Sean

[hexagon789]

Dutch Vans (steam heat) - boilers: Two Spanner of 1000lb/hrs. Generator - Lister HR3 of 32.25hp at 1500rpm

Dutch Van (electric heat) - one Cummins NTA 885-G3 of 535hp at 1800rpm powering one Dale EM/395/DCE Alternator of 283.5kW at 1500rpm

BR Van - boiler: One Spanner of 2000 lb/hr. Generator: Lister HR3 of 32.25hp at 1500rpm

Mk2D EGV - Engines: Two Detroit 8V-71N of 234hp at 1575rpm powering Two International Electric alternators of 160kW

Mk3 EGV -

As built - Engines: Two Detroit 8V-71N of 234hp at 1575rpm powering Two Newton Derby Alternators of 168kW

As modified Engines: - Two Cummins LTA 10G3 of 295hp powering Two Newton Stamford HD4D Alternators of 202kW at 1500rpm.

Details from 2004.

For reference - a Mk3 coach requires 30kW of power, a Mk3 diner requires 70kW.

Hopefully this helps in some way.

[Sean]

Amazing,

 

Thanks for this.