Guinness Brewery Railway Colours

[Belpaire]

Hello,

I have come across a few color photos of the narrow gauge railway at Guinness, a couple in the book “The Irish Narrow Gauge in Colour” and some more from Ernie’s Irish Railway Archive. 
 

I believe by the time these photos were taken the bogie flats were no longer around. Would anyone know what colour they were painted?  From the B&W photos I’ve seen, they were a relatively light colour. 
 

Also, the Spence locomotives seem to be either the green/red of the preserved examples or a black/red. Where these really black or are they just a dirty green and the old photos make them appear black?

Lastly, are there any other sources of colour photos from when steam was still working?  I’ve contacted the Guinness archives and they do not have any. 
 

Thanks in advance. 
 

Regards,

Roger

[jhb171achill]

My understanding is that Guinness locos were originlaly a very dark olive green - which would also explain them looking "black" (like GNR(I), CDRJC and GSR grey locos too).

This also applies to the RPSI's No, 3BG at Whitehead, now painted a quite bright blue, which is far too light for Guinness blue.

I do not believe any of the 1'10" locos were ever blue, but at some stage the 5'3" locos became a dark blue as we know.

As a related issue, and from a historical perspective, I would like to see the RPSI paint both of their industrials at Whitehead in an authentic manner, not like something out of a Thomas the Tank video or a Sheffield / Hattons Peckett DCC re-release; the pale green on the Derry shunter requires sunglasses to look at; needless to say, the thing never carried any colour like that..... but I digress.

Regarding the Guinness wagons, I've no idea what way they were turned out. A lightish brown could indicate just that, or possible that they were originally varnished and this got dulled down in time.............

[Galteemore]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

This also applies to the RPSI's No, 3BG at Whitehead, now painted a quite bright blue, which is far too light for Guinness blue.

 

 

 

 

This is how 3BG was in early RPSI ownership 60 years ago, in dark blue. Her paint for this outing, incidentally, was sourced by Galteemore Senior Senior……strictly speaking, she should not be wearing the Guinness plates, which came off a BG diesel. But they really suit her. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

Galteemore Snr X 2 has nailed it..............! That's the PROPER Guinness colour, as also seen on some of the little narrow gauge things like the diesel at Cultra.

[Belpaire]

jhb171achill,

 

Thank you for the information.

 

I've seen photos of the locomotives lined from new at the Spence factory.  Perhaps the base colour was the olive green then. 

 

Roger

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Belpaire said:

jhb171achill,

Thank you for the information.

I've seen photos of the locomotives lined from new at the Spence factory.  Perhaps the base colour was the olive green then.

Roger

Could have been, Roger, I'd say so. Lined dark green was a common generic type of livery for industrials at that time. Probably future repaits were just plain colour without lining.

[Belpaire]

Thank you again.
 

Out of curiosity, do you recall where you heard they were originally dark olive green? 
 

Roger

[jhb171achill]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:49 AM, Belpaire said:

Thank you again.
 

Out of curiosity, do you recall where you heard they were originally dark olive green? 
 

Roger

Lost in the mists, Roger, but I’ll try to dig it up!

Dark green was, in any event, a common manufacturers colour for industrials.

Some fifty years ago, during a refurb at Whitehead, traces of green were found under the blue of the Guinness engine…..

[airfixfan]

Found this photo yesterday looking for something else! From about 1960

[Irishswissernie]

21 & 15 at Guinness Brewery  March 1959. 15 had been withdrawn in 1957 apparently so freshly painted green for preservation. 21 was withdrawn 1959 so probably still in the usual black  + red bits livery.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Irishswissernie

[Irishswissernie]

The black loco could be 23 rather than 21, the number is a bit indistinct on the slide.

[Belpaire]

On 3/4/2023 at 1:06 PM, jhb171achill said:

Lost in the mists, Roger, but I’ll try to dig it up!

Dark green was, in any event, a common manufacturers colour for industrials.

Some fifty years ago, during a refurb at Whitehead, traces of green were found under the blue of the Guinness engine…..

Much appreciated if you can but need need to put yourself out. 

Irishswissernie, There is a photo of the same scene but a different angle in the Irish Narrow Gauge in Colour book.  It identifies the chimney-less and coupling-less locomotive as #21.  I'm guessing later in life they were simply painted black?

 

Roger

[Belpaire]

Going though photos I took of the Geoghegan locomotive at Guinness, I noticed a couple of things.  First, it seems no two of these locomotives are painted the same shade of green but the one at the brewery is a standout.  It is quite a bit darker and has some brown in it.  Looking inside the tool bunker, it appears at some point a coating was put on top of the green.  Whether this coating was meant to change the colour or it shifted over time I don't know.

The other thing is that there are several spots where light blue is coming through.  It is over an off-white base coat but under the green.  Could this have been a primer?  A similar looking blue also appears in photos take of #23 at Amberly when it was undergoing restoration.

Roger

[jhb171achill]

The light blue was almost certainly a primer, and anything brownish could be weathered / dirty red lead as an anti-rust treatment.