What Donor Chassis for Non-RTR Irish Stock Have You Used?

[DJ Dangerous]

Hi All.

Just wondering what donor chassis people have used for their kit-built / scratch-built / 3D printed Irish locos and stock, across N Gauge, OO Gauge, O Gauge and other scales.

There have been many mentions throughout the forum, but I thought it would be good to get a few of them together in the one thread.

The O Gauge Heljan Class 58 was what set me thinking along these lines, as the chassis looks like it may be useful.

I know that the HO Gauge Athearn SW-1500 is definitely the main contender for OO gauge 121's, 141's and 181's, it's been posted to death on the forum so there's not much to say on that one, but what else?

Shapeways O Gauge Irish stuff tends to be 1:48 rather than 1:43, presumably due to it's American ancestry.

For reference, the Athearn SW-1500:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklistdatabase/356676/athearn_95831ath_sw1500_emd_203_of_the_great_northern_railway/stockdetail

What do people use for bogie sides? Some of the Irish bogies are very uniquely Irish looking indeed.

[Mayner]

Finding suitable rtr donor chassis for an Irish loco steam or diesel has always been challenging and involved some form of compromise. Irish steam and diesel locos tended to be smaller than their UK equivalent, coupled/bogie wheel base tended to be shorter, there were even significant differences between superficially similar locos like the NCC/LMS Castle and LMS 2P 4-4-0 Classes.

A-001 Class

Diesel modellers originally used Continental Liliput bogies for the A Class because they had the correct unequal wheelbase and more importantly the bogies and bogie wheelbase on available BR rtr 4mm locos were too long, the Lima Deltic (shorter than scale) bogie became a cheaper/more easily available option for the A and B101 Class after Lima introduced its OO range of locos and stock during the 70s. 

One modeller scratchbuilt 001 Class with plasticard bodies with a scratch built brass chassis with rubber-band drive similar to contemporary Athearn American locos. The rubber band drive locos were fast, reliable and good hauliers

C-201 Class

During the 70s modellers used to kitbash the C-201 class in OO and N Scale from  a Rivarossi Italian Fiat 342 Bo Bo Diesel. Modifying the cab windows and blanking out some of the porthole windows.http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/english_version/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_D_341_Fiat_Eng.htm

Model Irish Railways and Q Kits

Hugh Mc Nally"s MIR and Mike Coles Q-Kits resin kits helped to popularise Irish 'modern outline' modelling during the 80s. MIR originally produced its B121 and B141 loco kits as complete kits including wheels gears and motors and bogie sideframes. Q Kits were available with the option of a complete kit with motor and gears or a body-line kit with bogie sideframes.

The MIR B121/B141 power bogie was designed around and available motor and longer than the prototype.

MIR later supplied the loco kits as body only during the 1990s before re-tooling in resin before discontinuing the locos kits during the early 2000s 

Athearn Chassis for MIR & Q Kits.

The chassis from Athearn 'Blue Box" locos became a popular option for motoring Irish diesels from the 90s though apart from the SW-1000/1500 chassis it was not a drop in option, because the Athearn Chassis are usually shorter than the Irish locos.

The exception was the IE 201 Class where its necessary to extend the frames of an SD45 when building a model of the Irish locos.

I used the motor, driveshafts and bogies/trucks from an Athearn SD7/9 with a new brass frame retaining a single flywheel to motorise a MIR whitemetal 001 Class and the mechanical parts from an Athearn GP7/9 with a brass frame to motorise a MIR B141, the SW Chassis would have been too short for a B141/181

I picked up a model of 211 assembled from a Q Kits body on a modified Athearn F 7/9 chassis and passed on a similar 071 to my regret at a swap meet in Dublin about 20 years ago, the builder had done a nice job in assembling, detailing and weathering both locos.

The builder had grafted the original Q Kits bogie frames on to the Athearn sideframes and added steps.

Although retaining the Athearn casting the builder has shortened the frames and moved one of the bolsters to fit the F7/9 frame in a C Class

Re-located bolster at one end, personally I found it a lot easier to fabricate a new set of frames and a motor cradle from KS metal

Although she did some exhibition running in Ireland 211s is and likely to remain a shelf queen.

Other Scales

I kitbashed a pair of N Scale SW1500s into B121 Class and fitted a scratchbuilt B141 plasticard body to a SW1500 chassis during the late 70s/early 80s as near-enough conversions for Irish locos.

Steam

In my experience its more hassle than its worth trying to build an Irish steam outline loco on a British Outline donor body, its a far better option to develop the necessary skills by starting with a simple kit (even if its British outline) or better still one on the Alphagraphix/Tyrconnell O Gauge kits. I honed my skills assembling British Outline diesel shunters after getting bogged down trying to build an Irish outline steam loco on a rtr donor chassis and early scratchbuilding attempts.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Mayner

[Horsetan]

The Heljan Hymek bogie has the correct overall wheelbase for the Sulzer B101. The catch is that you have to drill holes to turn it into the Sulzer's A1A arrangement....and that extra axlehole runs perilously close to the Heljan geartrain...

[Blaine]

1 hour ago, Horsetan said:

The Heljan Hymek bogie has the correct overall wheelbase for the Sulzer B101. The catch is that you have to drill holes to turn it into the Sulzer's A1A arrangement....and that extra axlehole runs perilously close to the Heljan geartrain...

Leave it on 4 axles - never notice when its ontrack that its missing 2 axles. Heljan mechanisms are excellent too, good runners

[irishthump]

I built a Silver Fox A Class kit a few years ago and I used the chassis from an Athearn F7. However I had to replace the bogies with ones from an Atlas U36C which required A LOT of fiddling about.