clogher valley rly.

[dingle]

Hello Folks, anyone got a book on the CVR? I am building a 1st class carriage from the line. It has a short compartment with upholstered seats along the sides, and a longer compartment with 8 armchairs called "Library Chairs" I am wondering if this was a Directors Saloon. Any info would be appreciated. Regards Ken

[minister_for_hardship]

I have the Patterson CVR book, I don't know how much detail is goes into, but can look it up.

[jhb171achill]

They didn't have a Director's Saloon, Dingle - what you're looking at is a first class coach. Apert from being slightly shorter, CVR carriages were virtually identical inside and out to those on the Cavan & Leitrim. There's one in Cultra Museum.

[dingle]

They didn't have a Director's Saloon, Dingle - what you're looking at is a first class coach. Apert from being slightly shorter, CVR carriages were virtually identical inside and out to those on the Cavan & Leitrim. There's one in Cultra Museum.

The attached drawing was supplied by a friend, it came with a Branchlines Kit he bought. Apparently there were two types of 1st. class carriage on the CVR, the longer one had 12 windows, the short one I am building only 9 windows. As you can see, there are differences in the seating layout. Now, this is all hearsay to me, so hoping someone here can confirm, either way.

Regards Ken

 

 

 

Regards Ken

[jhb171achill]

Certainly the longer one is what the C & L had; but I would be reasonably confident in saying the CVR had just the one length of coach. I am not familiar with the right hand design at all but it could well be OK. I wonder is the left hand one actually the C & L one, and the right hand one the CVR type?

[dingle]

Certainly the longer one is what the C & L had; but I would be reasonably confident in saying the CVR had just the one length of coach. I am not familiar with the right hand design at all but it could well be OK. I wonder is the left hand one actually the C & L one, and the right hand one the CVR type?

 

I tried to contact the Ulster Transport Museum for info, but their email system won't work for me. Not suprised really, as I don't have much faith in the internet. I spotted this picture on ebay, the carriage described as 1st Class

My model looks very much like this, with 9 windows, and a dividing wall in the same place, splitting the carriage into 2 thirds/ 1 third in compartment lengths.

Edited January 26, 2013 by dingle
extra text

[jhb171achill]

Dingle, I checked my own records. CVR coaches were all the same, as were C & L ones, in terms of overall dimensions and other details. Those of each line were ordered at the same time, from the same firm (Metropolitan Railway Carriage and Wagon Co., Birmingham), and were even delivered painted the same colour - a reddish-brown, which apart dfrom obvious differences in lettering etc., therefore bore the same livery. Another uncanny similarity is that a proposal was made by the directors of each company in the early years of the 20th Century to acquire further coaching stock to cope with heavy traffic, but in each case other directors voted the proposal down on grounds of finance!

 

C & L coaches were 40ft long and had 14 windows, while CVR ones had indeed two lengths. First class coaches were 24ft long, and thirds were 29ft 6ins. In all cases, the length refers to the chassis, the body obviously being shorter in all cases by the width of the balconies, i.e. bodies themselves were 5ft 6ins shorter.

 

The circular seats you see were not loose chairs, but fixed swivel chairs, but they proved unsatisfactory on at least the C & L line and were later replaced with fixed seats. They were covered in black leather.

 

The CVR used a crest in the earlier days, but possibly not right at the outset. This was certainly in use after 1903, but later a gold leaf "CVR" monogram was used, and later still the initials "C V R". The C & L didn not have a crest, but used well spaced out lettering, but after 1925 this was replaced by GSR maroon, unlines, but with full crest and standard pattern shaded numerals, as on other C & L stock, broad and narrow gauge. The GSR painted the carriage roofs light grey. I believe the CVR used a mid grey. On both lines the carriage chassis were black as one would expect.

 

Hope this helps.

[jhb171achill]

I should have added, Dingle, that for purposes of historical research of this nature, the UFTM would not really be the major point of call - the IRRS in Dublin would have access to a much greater amount of available archival material and is well worth joining for the purposes of research alone, let alone the talks and outings they have. (No, I'm not on commission!!).

 

Much livery details can be gleaned from various books as well, and from memories of those elderly enough to have seen the item concerned, and (more importantly) have a very good recall about colours and details.

[jhb171achill]

And I should have added, first, that your model looks amazing!

[dingle]

And I should have added, first, that your model looks amazing!

 

Thanks very much for all the information. I had a feeling that the seats would have been fixtures, cannot imagine them being loose & spinning around. I will put some pictures on my Workbench thread, as I go. Thanks again! Regards Ken

[Mayner]

The Irish Three Foot Yahoo Group might be of help http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irish_three_foot/messages/7413?l=1. The Branchlines coaches are very nice I have a pair that somehow or other found their way onto the C&L.

 

I am not sure if they are still available Backwoods Miniatures once did a very nice CVR 0-4-2T & a covered wagon http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com/00n3kits.htm.

[dingle]

Well, I took your advice and emailed the Archivist of the IRRS about ten days ago, sadly no reply.

I should have added, Dingle, that for purposes of historical research of this nature, the UFTM would not really be the major point of call - the IRRS in Dublin would have access to a much greater amount of available archival material and is well worth joining for the purposes of research alone, let alone the talks and outings they have. (No, I'm not on commission!!).

 

Much livery details can be gleaned from various books as well, and from memories of those elderly enough to have seen the item concerned, and (more importantly) have a very good recall about colours and details.

[dingle]

The drawing I put on this thread comes from a friend on the Yahoo site, no further information available from them.

The Irish Three Foot Yahoo Group might be of help http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irish_three_foot/messages/7413?l=1. The Branchlines coaches are very nice I have a pair that somehow or other found their way onto the C&L.

 

I am not sure if they are still available Backwoods Miniatures once did a very nice CVR 0-4-2T & a covered wagon http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com/00n3kits.htm.

[Garfield]

Well, I took your advice and emailed the Archivist of the IRRS about ten days ago, sadly no reply.

 

It came take them a while to get to emails, but they usually do reply.

[jhb171achill]

Dingle, I'll be in the IRRS tonight and willmake enquiries on your behalf. As Garfield says, it can take a while as they are voluntarily run, but I know the relevant people who would deal with such things. If I've time I'll poke about in the archives and see what i find - but that will probably be over the next few weeks.

[dingle]

Dingle, I'll be in the IRRS tonight and willmake enquiries on your behalf. As Garfield says, it can take a while as they are voluntarily run, but I know the relevant people who would deal with such things. If I've time I'll poke about in the archives and see what i find - but that will probably be over the next few weeks.

 

Great stuff! Looking forward to hearing from you. Regards Ken