Container traffic to Larne Harbour

[Jarl]

I was looking at some old pictures of Larne Harbour station (and @LARNE CABIN's excellent model thread) and in some pictures noted container wagons under a gantry crane in the sidings in front of the main platform. Some of those containers would be the Red Star parcels, which I vaguely remember from getting the ferries to go on summer holidays in the 70s and early 80s to Scotland.

My question:

Was the gantry crane used to lift containers off the flat wagons for transfer to road vehicles and/or the ferries?

If so, noting that it appears to have a single lifting hook, was it a case of running four strops from the hook to each top corner of the container?
(Lifting frames strike me as being a more recent tool)

If the containers weren't lifted off, does that mean they were used as "vans" and loaded/unloaded in those sidings by hand? With one set of end doors, would that be a rather complicated way to move parcels and need a lot of work?

 

I'm aware of @jhb171achill's question about the design of CIE container gantries, though those look to be a different design than was used at Larne Harbour. However, maybe operating practice was similar.

 

I am considering adding a container siding and crane to my work-in-progress layout (not very much progress so far...)

Thank you in advance for any information.

Michael

 

[LARNE CABIN]

Hi Michael, @Jarl, welcome to the forum and thank you for your kind comment 're my Larne Harbour Station thread. I'm afraid that I can't answer your question about container traffic as they're beyond my period, 1969. I have seen the photos you're referring to, and the question is intriguing. Hopefully, some of our learned container traffic colleagues will be able to provide an answer. I do find the Red Star Parcels Containers very interesting and hope to model a few at some stage, just as an additional little ad on for my Larne Harbour project.

 

 

[Mayner]

Unfortunately no photos,  Containers on York Road-Larne parcel trains were basically used as vans loaded and unloaded through a door on one side at least from the early 1980s. There may be photos of parcel trains at Larne in the IRRS Flickr collection, Jonathan Allen's excellent collection of photos of Northern Irelands railway no longer appears to  be accessible on line.

 

[jhb171achill]

8 hours ago, LARNE CABIN said:

Hi Michael, @Jarl, welcome to the forum and thank you for your kind comment 're my Larne Harbour Station thread. I'm afraid that I can't answer your question about container traffic as they're beyond my period, 1969. I have seen the photos you're referring to, and the question is intriguing. Hopefully, some of our learned container traffic colleagues will be able to provide an answer. I do find the Red Star Parcels Containers very interesting and hope to model a few at some stage, just as an additional little ad on for my Larne Harbour project.

 

 

I wonder why some of those containers had a black band round the middle, and others maroon....anyone know? And - WHERE did they go to when they got to Larne?

[Jarl]

On 14/1/2024 at 10:40 PM, Mayner said:

Unfortunately no photos,  Containers on York Road-Larne parcel trains were basically used as vans loaded and unloaded through a door on one side at least from the early 1980s. There may be photos of parcel trains at Larne in the IRRS Flickr collection, Jonathan Allen's excellent collection of photos of Northern Irelands railway no longer appears to  be accessible on line.

 

Thank you for the info.

I was wondering why they would use containers as vans, since it's basically the point of a container to not be treated like that - why not just buy some old vans from BR? And then I started thinking that a metal container is probably less vulnerable to petrol bombs and such than a traditional wooden-bodied van...!?

On 14/1/2024 at 5:27 PM, LARNE CABIN said:

Hi Michael, @Jarl, welcome to the forum and thank you for your kind comment 're my Larne Harbour Station thread. I'm afraid that I can't answer your question about container traffic as they're beyond my period, 1969. I have seen the photos you're referring to, and the question is intriguing. Hopefully, some of our learned container traffic colleagues will be able to provide an answer. I do find the Red Star Parcels Containers very interesting and hope to model a few at some stage, just as an additional little ad on for my Larne Harbour project.

 

 

Thanks for the reply @LARNE CABINand a photo that I hadn't seen before. I hadn't noticed the different colours of the bands @jhb171achill; might have to try to replicate that.

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Jarl said:

Thank you for the info.

I was wondering why they would use containers as vans, since it's basically the point of a container to not be treated like that - why not just buy some old vans from BR? And then I started thinking that a metal container is probably less vulnerable to petrol bombs and such than a traditional wooden-bodied van...!?

Thanks for the reply @LARNE CABINand a photo that I hadn't seen before. I hadn't noticed the different colours of the bands @jhb171achill; might have to try to replicate that.

 The containers may have been a low cost alternative to replacing the 'Brown Vans' once used for York-Road parcel traffic with more modern vehicles. Similarly CIE sometimes used its side door containers as vans during the transition from loose coupled to Liner Train operation during the late 70s.

It looks like the NIR containers were only used in Northern Ireland, with Red Star parcels conveyed in BR Passenger and Parcel trains between Stranraer-Glasgow and points on the Mainland. 

Interestingly BR transhipped Railfreight traffic to Northern Ireland from rail to road at Stranraer Stockton Haulage depot.  

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stranraer-freight-traffic.162202/

[LARNE CABIN]

Hi Michael, @Jarl, from your comment 're the different colours of bands on the Red Star containers, you say 'might have to try to replicate that', it sounds like you might be going to work on a model. I don't know if you've seen it, but Darius43, one of the master builders on this forum has built a fleet of Red Star Parcels Containers. If you go to the 'Workbench' thread, about six down is 'Darius's Workbench', and the first thing that comes up is the Red Star Parcels Containers build. Hope that's useful to you.

[MOGUL]

On 16/1/2024 at 7:49 PM, Mayner said:

 The containers may have been a low cost alternative to replacing the 'Brown Vans' once used for York-Road parcel traffic with more modern vehicles. Similarly CIE sometimes used its side door containers as vans during the transition from loose coupled to Liner Train operation during the late 70s.

It looks like the NIR containers were only used in Northern Ireland, with Red Star parcels conveyed in BR Passenger and Parcel trains between Stranraer-Glasgow and points on the Mainland. 

Interestingly BR transhipped Railfreight traffic to Northern Ireland from rail to road at Stranraer Stockton Haulage depot.  

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stranraer-freight-traffic.162202/

Interesting thread, although not mentioned was the Ciba Geigy resin which was carried in curtainside containers and then tanks to Stranraer for shipping to NI via Larne.. 

[Arran]

1155.BMPthese boxes were at Stockton's place in Stranraer in 88, i dont have any more pics as pushing the shutter button back then cost cash .

 

They seem to be coded BELU which i think was BELL 

[Jarl]

On 17/1/2024 at 5:46 PM, LARNE CABIN said:

Hi Michael, @Jarl, from your comment 're the different colours of bands on the Red Star containers, you say 'might have to try to replicate that', it sounds like you might be going to work on a model. I don't know if you've seen it, but Darius43, one of the master builders on this forum has built a fleet of Red Star Parcels Containers. If you go to the 'Workbench' thread, about six down is 'Darius's Workbench', and the first thing that comes up is the Red Star Parcels Containers build. Hope that's useful to you.

Thank you @LARNE CABIN for pointing me at Darius43's @Darius43 workbench thread. I lost myself in there quite happily; masterful modelling.
My efforts aren't of a standard, but yes I am slowly working on a layout and have had a go at a short rake of Red Star Parcels container wagons.

Possibly should think about starting a layout thread instead of cluttering up the Q&A!

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

Interestingly I have built some BR Freightliner containers from the late 1960's onwards that were grey with a blue strip which were used primarily for the ferry workings between Britain and Ireland for various cargos. An easy conversion from the Hornby 20' container box.

My Hornby containers repainted.

A Trafford Park Holyhead train in the 1970's with some Blue Strip Freightliner boxes and a Harp tanker on its way back to Dublin. The blue striped box on the left of the photograph is of a German container line which confused me when researching the blue striped Freightliner boxes.

Gibbo.