CIE 4-wheel zinc ore wagons

[Mol_PMB]

Having written a few wagon threads recently where I have plundered others' photos for illustrations, I scanned a load of my old wagon photos last night, and I have some material of my own to illustrate this thread. I'll have to rely on others for the more historical stuff though.

The 4-wheel zinc ore wagons were built in the late 1960s for a traffic flow from Silvermines to Foynes, for export. After a long closure, the Foynes line is now being rebuilt and one of the proposed traffics is, once again, zinc ore for export. So it seems an opportune time to write about the wagons. Who knows whether they will feature in IRM's plans - they were quite geographically limited and fairly short-lived in original form.

Wagons 28528 to 26569 (total 42) were built in 1967, with a further batch of 13 being completed in 1970: 26653 to 26665. They used the 'standard' CIE vacuum-braked underframe, 12' wheelbase with roller bearings and a length of 20' over headstocks. However, the underframe had a few features not quite standard with any of the other types.

The O'Dea collection on the NLI archive has an excellent selection of photos of these wagons, including the links below. However, several of them are flipped left/right in the scans so I've taken the liberty of correcting one of the images and posting it directly here, to show the wagons as-built in 1967.

The wagon bodies were a very peculiar shape and quite distinctive. Like the present-day Tara Mines wagons, it was necessary to keep the ore dry, and a welded tubular framework was placed over the top of the wagon to support a sheet. To work with this, the tops of the wagon sides were rounded, and further down the wagon sides and ends there were protruding hooks to secure the sheet. At one end, there was a transverse tray which was used to store the sheet when not in use.

I think they were painted in the light grey that would have been standard at the time. Although there was plenty of lettering on the solebar, there was none on the body and the CIE roundel was absent.

This and other images can be seen here:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306182

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306183

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307326

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307510

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307436

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307569

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307570

Again an NLI image linked above, this shows a rake of the wagons with the sheets fitted. Despite the support framework, the sheets are sagging in places - perhaps it has been raining? But to me, that support framework looks rather lightweight and considering the way that dense minerals are often dumped into wagons, I wouldn't be surprised if the framework itself became damaged over time.

This image shows one of the wagons being tippled at Foynes, in a pretty massive tippler machine:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307509

This IRRS photo in colour shows a rake of wagons awaiting loading at Silvermines:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449795905

 

Now, I may come back to the history as I continue my research, but this is how I remember them. Rusty and dumped at either Limerick or Limerick Junction.

By the early 2000s they had lost all traces of paint, and the sheet supports had vanished too.

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 18:14 by Mol_PMB

[Mol_PMB]

What I don't really know is how long this traffic lasted, and whether the wagons found other any uses afterwards. As tipplers without any side doors or dropsides, they would not have been very useful to the PW department. But yet they seem to have survived a long time.

Most of my photos above are from the early 2000s but this is another of mine probably about 1990 showing a long rake of them going to rust. I can't remember the location but possibly Gort?

 

[Mol_PMB]

Now, Ernie also captured them rusting away, at closer quarters than I managed:

And the IRRS archive has this photo of a rather strange freight train passing Lucan, comprised mostly of empty zinc ore wagons but with some other stuff too

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53445961982

 

[jhb171achill]

Grey initially - presumably brown soon after 1970......

[Mayner]

Interestingly the initial Tara Mines output was railed to Foynes in Zinc Ore wagons as a result of a trade dispute at Dublin Port. 

The Mogul zinc mine at Silvermines ceased in 1982 https://silvermineshistoricalsociety.com/20th-century-mining-in-silvermines/#:~:text=Despite efforts to keep the,% Pb and 7.4% Zn.. The Zinc ore wagons were stored at Silvermines before the branch/siding was disconnected in the late 90s possibly early 2000s ( I have some colour slides of wagons stored at Silvermines but no longer a suitable scanner)

Barytes traffic continued into the 90s, the Barytes wagons were used as Spoil Wagons by the P.W. department from the 1980s sometimes 'borrowed' for weekend PW works and returned to the Limerick area to take up their normal weekday diagrams while mining operations continued.

I think the train passing Lucan made up mainly of empty zinc ore wagons may have been a 'delivery run' from Inchacore to Limerick zinc traffic appears to have begun in 68.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Foynes Ore tippler was transferred to Mugnet and modified to accommodate bogie wagons when the shale traffic from Birdhill commenced in the 1980s

Edited Friday at 22:24 by Mayner

[Mol_PMB]

This NLI photo dated 1971 shows a rake of empties  at Limerick, and these aren't brand new. On the vertical plates on the sides, you can see horizontal marks, and I expect these occurred while the wagons were being tippled. It helps to explain the presence of these plates, a distinctive feature of the design.

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307774

The NLI image of the tippler itself is very dark, so I've increased the brightness and contrast to show how the wagons sat in the tippler:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307509

This IRRS photo dated 1967 shows what must have been almost the whole fleet of zinc wagons at that time, brand new:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509307274/

The IRRS archive contains several photos of the tippler, but the wagon being demonstrated is a 'dummy wagon' for tippler testing, rather than a zinc wagon:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53448459822/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511477268/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509153753/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570455456/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511311296/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510446947/

 

It has been very difficult to find any photos of the zinc wagons actually in service! Most photos seem to be either brand new or well-rusted after decades out of use.

Looking at the 1973 working timetable, on weekdays the booked timings for the 'Laden Mogul' and 'Empty Mogul' were as follows:

• Limerick dep 06:30, Foynes arr 07:38
• Foynes dep 09:45, Silvermines arr 12:10
• Silvermines dep 13:15, Foynes arr 15:40
• Foynes dep 14:45, Silvermines arr 20:00
• Silvermines dep 20:55, Limerick 22:05

By 1975 only the daytime service was a booked train and the other was just a path. Booked traction was a Ar / 001 class:

• Path 5404 Limerick dep 06:30, Foynes arr 07:38
• Path 5405 Foynes dep 10:15, Silvermines arr 12:45 / Train 5405 Limerick dep 11:35, Silvermines arr 12:45
• Train 5410 Silvermines dep 13:15, Foynes arr 15:45
• Path 5411 Foynes dep 18:00, Silvermines arr 20:50 / Train 5411 Foynes dep 18:00, Limerick arr 19:22
• Path 5418 Silvermines dep 21:05, Limerick 22:15

The 1978 WTT has basically the same pattern with some minor alterations to timings in places.

As @Mayner notes above, the traffic ceased in 1982. My next WTT is 1985 and as one might expect there is no provision for Mogul paths.

Has anyone got more photos of these wagons that they could share here?

[Mol_PMB]

The photo of a zinc wagon in the 1979 and 1981 editions of Doyle&Hirsch shows 26550, one of the original batch of wagons, apparently freshly repainted in brown livery. The body colour is darker than the original, and the position and style of the numbering is different from the as-built wagons. The photo cannot be later than 1979 so it dates from the period when these wagons were still in service. However, the tubular frame sheet support has been removed.

Edited 19 hours ago by Mol_PMB
forgot to add scan

[warb]

2001 limerick stored wagon

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, warb said:

2001 limerick stored wagon

Great, many thanks. That shows the red-brown livery in quite good condition, except on the side plates which contact the tippler. There doesn't appear to be a painted number - just the worksplate.

Also there is extra reinforcing on the solebar compared to the previous picture - maybe this is one of the second batch of wagons and they were subtly different?