Worsley Works AEC Railcars & Laminates re-appraisal.

[Mayner]

"Back in the Day" Comet Models has a particularly striking exhibition stand that featured contemporary rtr British Outline steam outline locos whizzing away continuously on their replacement chassis and their beautifully finished coach kits with flush glazing at a time the majority of plastic rtr coaches had their glazing set behind relatively thick plastic sides.

The TMD/SSM etched GNR, GSR and GSWR etched coach kits were a similar break through for Irish modellers, in the early 2000s Worsley Works began producing etched sides, ends and underframes for 'modern" Irish coaches including the AEC Railcars, Laminate, Park Royal and Cravens on a similar principal to the Comet Kits, but without a suitable roof extrusion or detail castings.

The Railcars and Coaches build into nice models, but there models of a particular era and there are challenges particularly around the roof and sourcing suitable running gear/bogies.  When I sourced the parts about 20 years ago my initial thoughts were to use an extruded roof similar to those used by Comet and other British manufacturers, but the $11k NZ -€6k price tag for a die to extrude a wider Irish profile coach roof put that particular idea to bed, instead I formed the AEC Railcar roof using balsa, glider tissue and dope, with lining tape jointing strips and cast whitemetal vents, I used standard Comet BRMk1 roof extrusions cut longitudinally widened to the Irish profile with the resulting gap filled with body filler supported on a plasticard jointing strip, followed by a lot of sanding before completing the roof detailing. Functional coach bogies were MJT "Torsion Bar" bogies widened to 21mm gauge, while the railcar runs on "Black Beetle' bogies supplied to 21mm gauge rtr. The main stuff up is the coaches run on BR pattern Commonwealth Bogies as no suitable castings were available and the MTK AEC railcar bogie sideframes are to a 9'6"" as opposed to the correct 10' wb resulting in a misalignment between the functional and cosmetic bogie sideframes.

Ten or so years later when I began to design the Tin Van kits my initial thoughts were to use a 3D printed body core with etched cosmetic overlays, but ended up producing the vans as conventional etched kits as a result of the limitations of the 3D printing process and cost. 

While the large scale release of relatively inexpensive high quality rtr models has lead to a expectation that manufacturers like MM or IRM will produce rtr models of once common items of stock such as the AEC Railcars, Laminates, Tin Vans and the various Passenger Brake Vans, I still believe that there is a place for kit and scratch building as it may not be viable to produce some or all of these models as a result of the size of the market. This has been reinforced to a degree of the lower than expected demand for the forthcoming Intercity Railcars, recent sale of Bulleid Wagons and IRMs recent instruction to the factories to reduce minimum order quantities for some models.

So what of the Worsley Works Irish coaching stock and what could be done to simplify its assembly, a number of New Zealand kit manufacturers have shifted to a multi-media approach combining laser cut, etched and 3D printing. 

1. The issue of the wider Irish profile could be overcome by 3D printing the part possibly including basic detail such as jointing strips, including a domed end for AEC railcars.

2. A one piece 3D printed floor/ends & underframe including truss bracing and battery boxes as opposed to individual components.

3. A one piece 3D printed interior including partitions and seating.

4. 3D printed functional bogie suitable for 21mm or OO.

Using etched coach sides as opposed to a fully 3D printed body eliminates the risk of print defects inherent in resin printing in particular both sides of a coach body with a near identical surface finish on both sides as opposed to 1 good and 1 bad (soft) side sometimes present with 3D printing.

Just floating the idea around rather than actually planning to do anything at this stage.

 

[Mol_PMB]

If IRM decide not to do the Laminates, then the underframe and bogies from the Park Royals would be an excellent starting point.

Indeed, if the Park Royals weren't so lovely in their own right I'd consider buying a couple as the basis for modifying into Laminates - the roof should be suitable too?

I think the 'true' laminate bogie coaches were:

• 7-bay Standards 1429-1443 and 1444-1448 (silver)
• Composites 2162-2171 (silver)
• 8-bay Standards 1449-1496 (green)
• Brake Standards 1909-1913 (green)

Of those, Worsley Works have done sides for the 8-bay standards and the brake standards. The 7-bay standards would be the easiest to modify from a Park Royal as the interior layout is the same.

 

[Horsetan]

On 1/2/2025 at 12:40 PM, Mol_PMB said:

If IRM decide not to do the Laminates, then the underframe and bogies from the Park Royals would be an excellent starting point.

Indeed, if the Park Royals weren't so lovely in their own right I'd consider buying a couple as the basis for modifying into Laminates - the roof should be suitable too?

I think the 'true' laminate bogie coaches were:

• 7-bay Standards 1429-1443 and 1444-1448 (silver)
• Composites 2162-2171 (silver)
• 8-bay Standards 1449-1496 (green)
• Brake Standards 1909-1913 (green)

Of those, Worsley Works have done sides for the 8-bay standards and the brake standards. The 7-bay standards would be the easiest to modify from a Park Royal as the interior layout is the same.

 

I think Irish Freight Models also produced Laminates for a while. They were resin-bodied, and included Commonwealth bogies. IFM don't do these anymore.

[StevieB]

IFM did indeed produce both Park Royal’s and laminates (SO & BSO). I tried to persuade Tom to do CIE’s version of the Park Royals, basically the Park Royal bodyshell with the laminate door and toilet at either end but to no avail. Such a shame but then the amount of work for the return was probably the killer.

Stephen

[Horsetan]

2 hours ago, StevieB said:

IFM did indeed produce both Park Royal’s and laminates (SO & BSO). I tried to persuade Tom to do CIE’s version of the Park Royals, basically the Park Royal bodyshell with the laminate door and toilet at either end but to no avail. Such a shame but then the amount of work for the return was probably the killer.

That's probably why IFM doesn't make coaches anymore. Not enough demand, not even for the kits.

[Mol_PMB]

In which case it’s perhaps even less likely that IRM will do them!

i can imagine myself picking up some more IRM Park Royals as conversion fodder, especially if they get discounted. 

[exciecoachbuilder]

On 1/2/2025 at 12:40 PM, Mol_PMB said:

If IRM decide not to do the Laminates, then the underframe and bogies from the Park Royals would be an excellent starting point.

Indeed, if the Park Royals weren't so lovely in their own right I'd consider buying a couple as the basis for modifying into Laminates - the roof should be suitable too?

I think the 'true' laminate bogie coaches were:

• 7-bay Standards 1429-1443 and 1444-1448 (silver)
• Composites 2162-2171 (silver)
• 8-bay Standards 1449-1496 (green)
• Brake Standards 1909-1913 (green)

Of those, Worsley Works have done sides for the 8-bay standards and the brake standards. The 7-bay standards would be the easiest to modify from a Park Royal as the interior layout is the same.

 

Don't forget that the those laminate coaches were rebuilt in the late 1970's. I have posted this info before, but the only original part of these coaches after the 'rebuilds', was the roof and ends of the coaches. So, you would have a choice of different sides, 1950's or late 70's. 

[Mayner]

ln hindsight a 3D printed core or shell would nicely complement the overlays for early CIE coaching stock I produced about 10 years ago.

The overlays for CIE 'standard" 61'6" coaches were 'shrunk' to fit an Airfix/Dapol 60' Stanier coaches, but could be re-sized to the correct length and height.

BSSGV

1901-4 Brake 2nd 

Open 2nd

Buffet car.

Ironically while I built several of these coaches for customers, I did not keep any for myself which kind of adds an incentive to build some scale length/width coaches for myself.

[Mol_PMB]

Those coaches do look very nice! The tiny percentage of shrinkage isn't noticeable, but the unavailability of the 60' coach kits used as a donor is now a problem.

I agree that a 3D printed core would be a good approach, and would allow the distinctive profiles and widths of the Irish coaches to be better represented, as well as making them scale length. You would need several variants of the 3D printed core to cover all the types but I don't imagine that to be a major problem. Quite a large print though - can your suppliers to than and would it stay straight?

[Weshty]

On 1/2/2025 at 10:47 AM, Mayner said:

"Back in the Day" Comet Models has a particularly striking exhibition stand that featured contemporary rtr British Outline steam outline locos whizzing away continuously on their replacement chassis and their beautifully finished coach kits with flush glazing at a time the majority of plastic rtr coaches had their glazing set behind relatively thick plastic sides.

The TMD/SSM etched GNR, GSR and GSWR etched coach kits were a similar break through for Irish modellers, in the early 2000s Worsley Works began producing etched sides, ends and underframes for 'modern" Irish coaches including the AEC Railcars, Laminate, Park Royal and Cravens on a similar principal to the Comet Kits, but without a suitable roof extrusion or detail castings.

The Railcars and Coaches build into nice models, but there models of a particular era and there are challenges particularly around the roof and sourcing suitable running gear/bogies.  When I sourced the parts about 20 years ago my initial thoughts were to use an extruded roof similar to those used by Comet and other British manufacturers, but the $11k NZ -€6k price tag for a die to extrude a wider Irish profile coach roof put that particular idea to bed, instead I formed the AEC Railcar roof using balsa, glider tissue and dope, with lining tape jointing strips and cast whitemetal vents, I used standard Comet BRMk1 roof extrusions cut longitudinally widened to the Irish profile with the resulting gap filled with body filler supported on a plasticard jointing strip, followed by a lot of sanding before completing the roof detailing. Functional coach bogies were MJT "Torsion Bar" bogies widened to 21mm gauge, while the railcar runs on "Black Beetle' bogies supplied to 21mm gauge rtr. The main stuff up is the coaches run on BR pattern Commonwealth Bogies as no suitable castings were available and the MTK AEC railcar bogie sideframes are to a 9'6"" as opposed to the correct 10' wb resulting in a misalignment between the functional and cosmetic bogie sideframes.

Ten or so years later when I began to design the Tin Van kits my initial thoughts were to use a 3D printed body core with etched cosmetic overlays, but ended up producing the vans as conventional etched kits as a result of the limitations of the 3D printing process and cost. 

While the large scale release of relatively inexpensive high quality rtr models has lead to a expectation that manufacturers like MM or IRM will produce rtr models of once common items of stock such as the AEC Railcars, Laminates, Tin Vans and the various Passenger Brake Vans, I still believe that there is a place for kit and scratch building as it may not be viable to produce some or all of these models as a result of the size of the market. This has been reinforced to a degree of the lower than expected demand for the forthcoming Intercity Railcars, recent sale of Bulleid Wagons and IRMs recent instruction to the factories to reduce minimum order quantities for some models.

So what of the Worsley Works Irish coaching stock and what could be done to simplify its assembly, a number of New Zealand kit manufacturers have shifted to a multi-media approach combining laser cut, etched and 3D printing. 

1. The issue of the wider Irish profile could be overcome by 3D printing the part possibly including basic detail such as jointing strips, including a domed end for AEC railcars.

2. A one piece 3D printed floor/ends & underframe including truss bracing and battery boxes as opposed to individual components.

3. A one piece 3D printed interior including partitions and seating.

4. 3D printed functional bogie suitable for 21mm or OO.

Using etched coach sides as opposed to a fully 3D printed body eliminates the risk of print defects inherent in resin printing in particular both sides of a coach body with a near identical surface finish on both sides as opposed to 1 good and 1 bad (soft) side sometimes present with 3D printing.

Just floating the idea around rather than actually planning to do anything at this stage.

 

Nice one John.

I did some outline etch designs for the Laminate underframe some time ago, as well as a master for the CIE version of the Commonwealth bogie sides.

My main issue was to capture the roof and side strapping detail while keeping the build and solder work required relatively easy.  (ya know, cut, bend, bolt or solder with minimal parts).    Like yourself, floating rather than progressing it (just too busy on other projects currently).   But who knows!

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Those coaches do look very nice! The tiny percentage of shrinkage isn't noticeable, but the unavailability of the 60' coach kits used as a donor is now a problem.

I agree that a 3D printed core would be a good approach, and would allow the distinctive profiles and widths of the Irish coaches to be better represented, as well as making them scale length. You would need several variants of the 3D printed core to cover all the types but I don't imagine that to be a major problem. Quite a large print though - can your suppliers to than and would it stay straight?

Hi quality multi-media NZR coach kits with 3D printed bodies, underframes and roofs are produced in S and 9mm Scale by locally based suppliers, so print size and distortion shouldn't be an issue. https://nzfinescale.com/emporium/164-kits/bp91-addington-car-kit/. 

Main priority at the moment is completing a long list of unfinished projects.

 

[murrayec]

This was my go at the Worsley Works laminate etches, though a few of my own bits were added!

Eoin