CIE bulk grain vans - a study of the variations

[Mol_PMB]

Just to clarify in this thread on bulk grain wagons, the GNR hopper shown by JB (2128N) is of a type built as cement hoppers, and I'm not aware that they were used to carry grain. The hose connection is similar to that on the CIE 'bubbles' which used low-pressure air to fluidise the cement powder and assist discharge. 

I haven't seen evidence of a CIE-built version of these (though CIE did acquire most/all of the GNR cement hoppers and cement vans when the GNR was split up).

My understanding is that the grain and milling economy in Ireland changed a great deal in the 1920s to 1970s period, broadly as follows:

• Smallish local flour mills, located by a water-power source, supplied with grain direct from local farms (in sacks, often by road)
• New, larger, more efficient mills built, steam-powered, with grain travelling longer distances to reach them (by rail, with more use of bulk transport)
• Economic changes meant imported grain became dominant. Initially carried by rail to the existing mills where they were not already at a port
• The obvious benefits of having the mill at a port meant that new mills were built there, cutting out the rail move for imported grain, but domestic grain may have been moved to them by rail.
• Inland mills became uncompetitive and many closed down. 

This process over the course of about 50 years led to a gradual rise in railborne bulk grain traffic, followed by a drop.

CIE probably did the right thing by re-purposing H vans at low cost to cater for the short-term boom.

In the 1970s they introduced bulk grain containers to cater for the residual grain traffic, which saw off the last of the unfitted grain hoppers.

 

You can see from the stock list in 1972 that the GSR (and Ranks) hoppers were 1930s, the GNR vans were 1940s, and the big batch of 50 CIE vans were 1954. Two further batches were built/converted in 1961 and 1964. All were withdrawn in the mid-1970s.

 

[Mol_PMB]

With the first 3 CIE grain vans ready for weathering, I thought I’d stay on the theme with some GSR grain hoppers. I made one of John’s a couple of years ago, and now I have 3 from Enda to assemble. These are the 21mm gauge kit variant, basically to be built as designed with a few extra details. 

I have more than 3 livery options for these and haven’t made a final decision yet. 

[Mol_PMB]

There's been several threads on this forum on the GSR and Ranks grain hoppers, but it may be useful to summarise some of that info here.

Thanks to all of those who have contributed info and photos on the previous threads.

I'll start with the Ranks hoppers and cover the GSR ones in a separate post later. 

 

Eight 12 ton all-steel grain hoppers were built specifically for Ranks millers in the late 1930s. This old image from JB appears to show No.1 when brand new:

The lettering was hand-painted and there were subtle variations between wagons and over time. The lettering became more stylised later as you will see in the later photos.

Note the plate on the solebar just to the right of the ladder. These were always private owner wagons and were registered with the IRCH and GSR in 1938.

The wagons were numbered 1 to 8, and (as was usual for RCH registrations) they had a registration number drawn from a common list for all private owner wagons registered by each railway. Here's a closer look at the registration plate on Ranks No.1, still in place around 1970 when this photo was taken:

 

The plate is to the standard design also used in GB. I expect the M prefix to the registration number indicates that the number was from the former MGWR register.

 

At some stage these Ranks hoppers carried a red livery. I'm not sure if they were originally delivered in red, or if that was applied in the 1950s. Opinions differ!

This 1950s photo from the IRRS shows a newly-painted pair at Inchicore and these are likely to be red. I have not yet found any colour photos of them in red.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509298965

@Mike 84C once worked for Rank Hovis and offered this image of one of their trucks as an example of the shade of red used by the company:

This photo from Ernie dated 1959 shows three of them in a train with some CIE grain hoppers:

By the 1960s they were being repainted grey, but retaining similar stylised Ranks lettering. Unlike CIE wagons, photos indicate that the underframes were black.

This photo is dated 1964; the colour has deteriorated but I think this is grey:

By the early 1970s they were looking rather rusty; here's No.8:

I think this is No.4, thanks to JB and Barry Carse:

The wagons weren't symmetrical: there was a ladder on one side, while the other side had the valve. Here's the valve side of No.1:

Here's an IRRS photo of the ladder side of No.1:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510435707

And another IRRS photo of No.6:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508956685

They lasted in service until 1975 - this is a still from an IRRS video showing one of the grey Ranks hoppers with a former GSR equivalent in the 1970s brown livery:

 

A 3D printed model was designed and produced by @Mayner some years ago. Here's one of John's own models in red livery:

 

A licensed version of these is now available from Enda @Past-Avenue in various scales, RTR in either red or grey livery.

https://ckprints.ie/product/ranks-grain-wagon-1-week-lead-time

https://ckprints.ie/product/ranks-grain-wagon-1-week-lead-time-1

They can also be provided as a 3-part kit which can be suitable for 21mm gauge. That's what I'm building at present, and one or two of them will be painted in Ranks livery.

 

I'll cover the GSR variants in a separate post, but not tonight.

[Mol_PMB]

Some of the custom transfers I have had printed for grain wagons. The last set of these just arrived today:

The ex-GNR grain vans (which I plan to build 2 of) had advertising hoardings on the side. Photos exist showing adverts for two different milling companies.
I am going to bend reality a little by fitting adverts for the products of my Webb’s Quartertown mill - they are based on real enamel signs. 

[Mol_PMB]

Here are two real examples of the adverts on the GNR grain vans. Photos indicate that they were only on the side without the ladder. 

 

[Galteemore]

Scott’s of Omagh were huge users of the the railway. I was at a university dinner with one of them in Edinburgh c1990 but even with my limited social skills I figured that probably wasn’t a conversation worth starting.

Edited 8 hours ago by Galteemore

[Mol_PMB]

A post on the GSR grain hoppers to complete the set. Again this relies heavily on information posted in several previous threads on this topic.

Physically these wagons were identical to the Ranks grain hoppers described above, but were owned by the GSR (later CIE) and were numbered in the main sequence.

A few sources say there were 10 of them numbered 16401 to 16410. But more sources including the 1972 wagon register list 12 - numbered 16400 to 16411. 

Here's a couple of excellent photos of them when new in the late 1930s, thanks to JB. These include numbers 16402, 16403 and 16410:

Here's the diagram from the 1972 wagon register. Note this states numbers 16400 to 16411:

Another photo in GSR livery is in the IRRS collection; two of them in a train at Portlaoise with a useful viewpoint from higher up:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509038168

Again thanks to JB, here's a photo of Fry's O gauge model of 16400 in an early CIE livery, with Eau-de-nil lettering as applied in the late 1940s and very early 1950s. The model carries a build date of March 1950 so I assume Fry was copying a real example:

This photo appears to show a livery on the nearer two GSR hoppers where all the lettering is in white, in a row along the middle of the side. There's a smallish snail on the left-hand panel.

Further back there's another GSR hopper which appears to carry a roundel on the left-hand panel.

This NLI image shows 16409 damaged in a derailment. It has a larger snail on the second panel:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307730

There are several photos like this one, where ex-GSR grain hoppers appear in the background, but rarely clear enough to see the livery details:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506630891

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/uploads/monthly_2025_05/image.thumb.png.53d9b3c42b063166eb2bfb7bae19d662.png

John Mayne created some nice graphics showing some of the liveries carried by these wagons, which can be seen in this thread:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8658-jm-design-rtr-gsrranks-bulk-grain-and-irish-standard-open-wagons/

The IRRS image used by IRM to market their CIE grain vans also included a former GSR one in CIE roundel grey livery:

It looks like number 16406 and a couple of years ago I built a model of this based on John's kit:

At least one was repainted in 1970s freight brown livery, with roundel and a different arrangement of the BULK GRAIN lettering:

I'm sure I've seen a couple more good photos of these GSR wagons in CIE days, but I can't seem to find them at present. 

 

I put in a link to Enda's website in the post on the Ranks version of these hoppers; he also offers them in some of the GSR and CIE liveries:

 

 

 

If anyone has more photos of the CIE, GSR, GNR or Ranks grain vans/hoppers, or of your models of them, please feel free to add them to the thread!

 

[leslie10646]

Can't recommend Enda's grain hoppers too highly - every layout based in 1950s to, say 1970s, should have a couple.

I have a @Mayner original in grey and a Ranks Red courtesy of Enda, who used John's designs. I had to have a red one, as I visited the late Drew Donaldson when he was constructing his 0 Guage one in the 1960s - not an easy task with tools and materials available then - the air was blue!

They provide a nice contrast to endless H vans and Bulleid Opens on any civilised goods train.

Go on lads and lasses, clear Enda's shelves!

[Mol_PMB]

28 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

Can't recommend Enda's grain hoppers too highly - every layout based in 1950s to, say 1970s, should have a couple.

I have a @Mayner original in grey and a Ranks Red courtesy of Enda, who used John's designs. I had to have a red one, as I visited the late Drew Donaldson when he was constructing his 0 Guage one in the 1960s - not an easy task with tools and materials available then - the air was blue!

They provide a nice contrast to endless H vans and Bulleid Opens on any civilised goods train.

Go on lads and lasses, clear Enda's shelves!

Agreed! I've got one of John's complete and 3 of Enda's 21mm gauge kits in the works at present. There will be a Ranks in each livery, and the other will be in early CIE grey with Eau-de-Nil lettering like a smaller version of Fry's model. I'm trying to resist ordering another to finish in 1970s brown.

[Mol_PMB]

A final snippet on grain hoppers from the 1972 wagon register which has been extremely interesting and useful. 

Given that there are photos of these GSR grain hoppers still in service in 1975, the sanction for scrapping didn't happen rapidly. But by the end of 1975 all the grain hoppers were being withdrawn as the traffic dwindled and ISO bulk containers were used for the remainder.

 

For completeness, there were a few 1960s pre-ISO bulk grain containers like this:

And a dozen of these bulk barley hoppers (photo from Brian Flannigan on Flickr):

But the main container fleet for bulk grain were much more conventional 20' boxes with an end discharge slot. They were branded 'Bulk Freight' on the side. I've built a model of one of these but presently struggling to find a good photo of either the prototype or the model after painting...