MGWR Convertible Vans

[Mol_PMB]

Following some discussion on the 3D printing thread about MGWR convertible vans, I thought I'd collate a bit of information on these. Feel free to add more, I'm not an MGWR specialist.

Initial discussions on successful printing of a model in this thread:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/19981-the-irish-railways-3d-printing-thread/

 

I think these were introduced by the 1890s, perhaps earlier, and constructed into the 1910s. Many were withdrawn in the 1930s but a few survived in service into the 1950s until superseded by H vans. One was still in existence as a static store in 1971, but none were preserved. Several variants were built; common features were:

• Short and low body with a moderately curved roof. GSWR and some other railways had a more pronounced curve radius on their convertible vans, while later vehicles had a much flatter roof.
• Double hinged doors in the middle, with an open portion of the roof above them
• Ends with 2 vertical ribs to cantrail height. Above that, types vary.
• Predominantly wooden with external wooden ribs and iron bracing. Side rib and vent arrangements vary.
• Basic brake gear

 

Body styles

Photos and drawings indicate several styles. There may have been more. I will arbitrarily label these with letters A to E.

 

Type A

External timber diagonal braces on the sides, in a /  \ shape. No louvred vents on the sides. 

Drawings: MGWR drawing 21882L exists in the IRRS archives - this is a detailed and well-dimensioned GA drawing, from Broadstone Works and dated March 1917. However, I suspect the wagons depicted are older, or perhaps rebuilds of older wagons.

The IRRS archives also has a GSR diagram for this type, page A1, stamped April 1928.

Key dimensions: 8’0” wheelbase, 14’2” long over headstocks, 17'4" over buffers, 7'11 1/8" width over body pillars, 10'9" to top of solid roof (battens higher), 7 tons.

This photo at Liffey Junction dated 1939 may show this type https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303461

 

Type B

Similar to Type A, but with louvred vents half-way up the sides, outboard of the diagonals. 

Drawings: none found yet

Photos: 'The MGWR: An Illustrated History' (Shepherd) page 39 shows one of these in the loco-hauled train, just behind the brake. 

'The MGWR: An Illustrated History' (Shepherd) page 61 shows one of these in the loco-hauled train, just behind the loco. 

This photo at Liffey Junction dated 1939 shows this type: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303458

 

 

Type C

Same as Type B, but with the addition of vertical ribs each side, so the diagonal and vertical ribs cross each other. Louvred vents in the outermost panels of each side only.

Drawings: none found yet

This is the type represented by the SSM whitemetal kit.

Photos: An excellent photo of No.937 appears in 'Irish Railways in Pictures No.2' (IRRS London) page 33. 

'The MGWR: An Illustrated History' (Shepherd) page 98 shows the same photo. 

'Rails to Achill' (Beaumont) page 48 has a part view of one of these, possibly No.712, on the left margin.

This photo at Liffey Junction dated 1939 shows this type https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303459, also seen in https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303461

 

 

Type D

This type has no diagonals, just the vertical ribs in the centre of each side panel. Louvred vents are placed in all 4 panels of each side. This is the type drawn up as an stl file which some of us have been playing with.

Drawings: HMRS https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-22835-covered-goods-8ft-w-b-14ft-2ins-o-b.html

'The MGWR: An Illustrated History' (Shepherd) page 132

Photos: 'The MGWR: An Illustrated History' (Shepherd) page 39 shows 3 of these on the left-hand siding and more in the loco-hauled train. 

'Rails to Achill' (Beaumont) page 48 shows two of these, including Guinness-branded 1888.

'SLNCR: An Irish Railway Pictorial' (Sprinks) page 59 shows a clear end view of 2645M.

There are also several visible in the Liffey Junction photos from 1938/39: 

    

Known numbers: 881M, 2263, 2609, 2645M

 

Type E

Same as Type D but with no louvres on the sides. This type seemed to be the latest survivors, with photos showing them still in service in the 1950s.

Drawings: None yet found.

Photos: The IRRS Flickr archive has photos of two in use at Timoleague in 1952, 655M and 840M: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511597095

And a 1940s image of one in GSR livery on the right margin here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511306613/

The IRRS Flickr archive has plenty of photos of the 1970s survivor, 2618M:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570657363

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570896890

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511783010

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527507348/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53526427782

 

One lurks on the right of this photo from Ernie, mid to late 1950s:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/40314027015

Known numbers: 655M, 840M, 1888, 2618M

 

 

Note on Doors

Some drawings and photos show externally-framed, horizontally-planked doors. Most photos show doors with external, vertical planks. One photo shows doors with external diagonal braces.

Various body variants have various doors. Study the photos!

 

 

Note that the MGWR also had a convertible version of the IRCH standard van, which are dealt with already, here: 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/18829-irch-standard-goods-vans-wooden-framed-variant/#findComment-264017

These were significantly larger and very different in style to the early convertibles.

Edited 4 hours ago by Mol_PMB
Corrected a couple of photo links

[Mol_PMB]

A couple more snippets from my confuser...

Type D in 1950, in the '2 small snails' livery:

Type E on the left margin:

Type A in 1950:

 

Types C and D :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510248182/

 

 

I also note that the HMRS drawings include several early MGWR vans, but most of the thumbnails aren't visible online. It's possible that some of them relate to the other variants I've identified from photos.

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-18145--covered-goods---8ft-w-b.html

Subject Type	Goods Van
Subject Subdivision	Van - Covered Goods (inc End Loading)
Drawing Type	General Arrangement
Company	Midland Great Western Railway
Date	16 Jul 1872
Original Company	Metropolitan Railway Carriage & Wagon Company Limited (Late J Wright & Sons)
Original Drawing Number	1280
Collection Name	Metropolitan Cammell
Source Identity	Roll 0351
Notes	Scale 1ins : 1ft
Digital Image Availabile	No

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-18148-covered-goods-8ft-6ins-w-b.html

Subject Type	Goods Van
Subject Subdivision	Van - Covered Goods (inc End Loading)
Drawing Type	General Arrangement
Company	Midland Great Western Railway
Date	31 May 1870
Original Company	Metropolitan Railway Carriage & Wagon Company Limited (Late J Wright & Sons)
Original Drawing Number	1275
Collection Name	Metropolitan Cammell
Source Identity	Roll 0351
Notes	Scale 1½ins : 1ft
Digital Image Availabile	No

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-18149--covered-goods---8ft-w-b---14ft-o-b.html

Subject Type	Goods Van
Subject Subdivision	Van - Covered Goods (inc End Loading)
Drawing Type	General Arrangement
Company	Midland Great Western Railway
Date	9 Nov 1875
Original Company	Metropolitan Railway Carriage & Wagon Company Limited (Late J Wright & Sons)
Original Drawing Number	1273
Collection Name	Metropolitan Cammell
Source Identity	Roll 0351
Notes	Scale 1ins : 1ft
Digital Image Availabile	No

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-22835-covered-goods-8ft-w-b-14ft-2ins-o-b.html

Subject Type	Goods Van
Subject Subdivision	Van - Covered Goods (inc End Loading)
Drawing Type	General Arrangement
Company	Midland Great Western Railway
Date	15 Mar 1895
Original Drawing Number	8082
Collection Name	Metropolitan Cammell
Source Identity	Roll 0007
Notes	Scale 1ins : 1ft
Digital Image Availabile	Yes

(This is the one with a thumbnail visible)

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/hmrs-18140-covered-goods-8ft-w-b.html

Subject Type	Goods Van
Subject Subdivision	Van - Covered Goods (inc End Loading)
Drawing Type	General Arrangement
Company	Midland Great Western Railway
Date	11 Oct 1870
Original Company	Metropolitan Railway Carriage & Wagon Company Limited (Late J Wright & Sons)
Original Drawing Number	1286
Collection Name	Metropolitan Cammell
Source Identity	Roll 0351
Notes	Scale 1ins : 1ft
Digital Image Availabile	No

Edited 3 hours ago by Mol_PMB
extra link added

[Rob R]

An earlier view.

Croagh Patrick

And here

Ballisodare

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Rob R