jhb171achill Posted December 12, 2015 Posted December 12, 2015 Railwaymen in the past never referred to six wheeled coaches as "six-wheelers" as we mere nippers do; they were "thirty foots". He area couple of interesting ones, showing that internal layouts of such vehicles were not always plain compartments. To refer to a vehicle as a "corridor" coach when the actual corridor was entirely internal, and did not include gangways into the next coach, was not unusual. The Isle of Man Railway always referred to its 1905-built saloons as "the Corridors", as you could walk right through them, but not to the next coach. Ironically, only in the past few years they have actually put gangways on them for the first time for their modern dining train... Quote
Jawfin Posted December 12, 2015 Posted December 12, 2015 Do you happen to have the drawings for 907, JB? Quote
jhb171achill Posted December 12, 2015 Author Posted December 12, 2015 I'll have a look, Jawfin. Quote
jhb171achill Posted December 12, 2015 Author Posted December 12, 2015 Jawfin, 907 is listed as a 30ft 1st / 2nd composite, built in 1889 by the Waterford & Limerick, and obviously absorbed into the GSWR in 1901. However, there's no drawing. It was gas lit and had 16 first class seats and 20 second class. That would be two first class compartments and two second. There's no mention of a loo in between. Being of W & L origin, it probably had curved in ends - the W & L was the only Irish company to do this, though such features were a lot more common in Britain. This coach is listed among 42 of the type. 906, 907 and 909 were ex-W & L, whereas the rest were GSWR built (in Inchicore, of course). All were gas lit except 517, 518 & 520 (GSWR type) which were oil lit. They were all built between 1879 and 1893. Quote
Mayner Posted December 13, 2015 Posted December 13, 2015 907 is included within a list of GSWR 1/2nd on Page 70 GSWR Carriage Diagrams TRA 1975 Richards and Pender. significantly Page 71 states that the information is incomplete for these coaches Quote
jhb171achill Posted December 13, 2015 Author Posted December 13, 2015 Luggage compartment in the middle... yes, the 1924 original GSWR book I have shows neither side elevation nor seat plan. I wondered if it had had a toilet, given that from the seat numbers quoted, it obviously only had 4 compartments. While carriages with this configuration did exist (though probably more so on the Midland, cone to think of it), GSWR ones often had a loo or luggage area. Clearly, this one had a luggage area. I suspect that a few like this were subsequently altered with a loo (or two) placed where the luggage compartment was, though this would have lost a seat in each first class compartment.... Quote
Mayner Posted December 13, 2015 Posted December 13, 2015 Luggage compartment in the middle... yes, the 1924 original GSWR book I have shows neither side elevation nor seat plan. I wondered if it had had a toilet, given that from the seat numbers quoted, it obviously only had 4 compartments. While carriages with this configuration did exist (though probably more so on the Midland, cone to think of it), GSWR ones often had a loo or luggage area. Clearly, this one had a luggage area. I suspect that a few like this were subsequently altered with a loo (or two) placed where the luggage compartment was, though this would have lost a seat in each first class compartment.... The drawing on p71 shows the same seating arrangement as p70 but with the luggage compartment at one end. Drg © H Richards The drawings look GSWR rather than WLWR in design and the WLWR may have been listed with the GSWR composites because they had a similar seating layout. Drg © H Richards Some ex-WLWR composites had a luggage compartment, lavatory and 1/2 compartment ends, panelling quite different to the GSWR. The drawings in GSWR Carriage Diagrams were prepared in 4mm scale by Herbert Richards who modelled the GSWR Quote
jhb171achill Posted December 13, 2015 Author Posted December 13, 2015 Curiously, I couldn't find 900 (the WLWR family saloon which rest at claremorris for years and whose rotting remains are now in a shed at Belturbet) in the 1924 book at all.... Quote
Jawfin Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Thanks very much both Here it is rather recently http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3903 It's now olive green Curiously, I couldn't find 900 (the WLWR family saloon which rest at claremorris for years and whose rotting remains are now in a shed at Belturbet) in the 1924 book at all.... I was just about to ask about that. Glad there's two WLWR coaches around. Quote
Garfield Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Curiously, I couldn't find 900 (the WLWR family saloon which rest at claremorris for years and whose rotting remains are now in a shed at Belturbet) in the 1924 book at all.... Hi JB, Having inspected this coach at its current location a couple of years ago, I can tell you that while it requires complete restoration, most of the timber appears to be structurally sound. The only issue is with one corner, which has suffered water damage (apparently there was a leak in the shed roof at Mallow where it was stored previously). Quote
jhb171achill Posted December 14, 2015 Author Posted December 14, 2015 That would be a problem, Garfield, as it probably impacts on the cantrail and the end roof support members. Such a thing IS restorable, but obscenely expensive as it would almost certainly require complete rebuilding of the end concerned.... Quote
jhb171achill Posted December 14, 2015 Author Posted December 14, 2015 Yes, and there was another (one of their few bogies) until about 20 years ago when vandals burned it despite bring earmarked for the RPSI. It was 934, the W & L Director's Saloon. When I came upon it in the late 80s, I had just taken over the RPSI's finances and I vowed there and then to try to set aside a budget to restore it. It was measured (I think I still have the drawing somewhere) with a view to doing this, next thing it's burnt..... Quote
Jawfin Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Was it the last item of stock with end tumblehomes? Quote
jhb171achill Posted December 14, 2015 Author Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) If you mean the curved in ends, Jawfin, yes. While the W & L was the only Irish railway company to feature this design, not all W & L stock had it. 900 and 907 have straight vertical ends. Interestingly, the photo of 907 at Halfway shows what looks like a single set of windows in the middle in the position of an original compartment- but from the window spacings that is a SECOND class one, not first as the drawings suggest! The luggage part may be part of it. There have been occasions where an official drawing of something is at variance with what actually existed. I wonder is this one? I'm getting the feeling that I ought to go and have a look.... but Wesht Caark is a long way away, boyo! Edited December 14, 2015 by jhb171achill Quote
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