One of the last two or three six wheelers in traffic

[jhb171achill]

Those 6-wheelers that survived in traffic into the 1960s were overwhelmingly ex-MGWR - built like tanks. Yet, after the last actual passenger-carrying ones were withdrawn finally in 1963, the few (2?) passenger brakes which lingered on were ex GSWR, as this example.

 

Thus, these two were the only six wheelers ever to wear black'n'tan. I forget the number of this one, which was still running in 1967, but the other was 1888-built 69, now undergoing an extremely lengthy restoration at Downpatrick and conversion to a brake first. For DCDR members of tender years here, this is what 69 looked like before arriving at the DCDR.

 

These two vans were also, perhaps uniquely, fitted with gangways possibly by the GSR, or maybe more likely CIE. 69 was withdrawn in mid / late 60s too.

 

[DiveController]

Lovely shot and very intereting:tumbsup:

[DiveController]

The only possibilities I could find to potentially identify this 6W brake van are 315A, a PW van/sleeping van, previously GSR 70 built 1888 as a former GS&WR passenger brake, 6-wheel, 30ft, one of eleven, b. 1882-99. Record seem to indicate that it was converted in 1955 to departmental use.

 

The other might be departmental sleeping van 368A, formerly GS&WR/GSR 14, built 1911, as a former GS&WR 6-wheel brake, 30ft, one of 36, b. 1885-1911. Recorded as converted to departmental use in 1960 which would precede the introduction of B'n'T in 1961

 

These seems to be the only vans left by 1973 so other than 69 for preservation, this van must have been scrapped in that interval after 1967.

 

Ref. Irish Railway Record Society 174 The Last Wooden-Bodied Carriages of CIÉ (Michael Baker)

 

EDITED FOR CLARITY after post below

Edited March 7, 2016 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

The only possibilities I could find to potentially identify this 6W brake van are 315A, a PW van/sleeping van, previously GSR 70 b. 1888 as a former GS&WR passenger brake, 6-wheel, 30ft, one of eleven, b. 1882-99. Record seem to indicate that it was converted in 1955 to departmental use.

 

The other might be departmental sleeping van 368A, formerly GS&WR/GSR 14 b. 1911, as a former GS&WR 6-wheel brake, 30ft, one of 36, b. 1885-1911. Recorded as converted to departmental use in 1960 which would precede the introduction of B'n'T in 1961

 

These seems to be the only vans left by 1973 so other than 69 for preservation, this van must have been scrapped in that interval after 1967.

 

Ref. Irish Railway Record Society 174 The Last Wooden-Bodied Carriages of CIÉ (Michael Baker)

 

Baker was very interested in carriages and wrote a lot about the. Extremely informative.

 

A carriage numbered 70B would be ex-CBSCR rather than GSWR. I think the one above had a number starting with 2. I have a note somewhere, so as you say, Dive, this one must have been gone by maybe 1968 at latest.

 

On re-reading your post, do you mean "built".... for "b"...

 

It's a pity the renumbering of vehicles into the departmental series by CIE followed no rhyme nor reason, and thus no relation to its original number! It makes things hard to trace. One of DCDR's senior and long-standing volunteers is a mine of information on these "A" numbers.

[Jawfin]

I have down here that 69 was withdrawn in either '68 or '69. It was rebuilt 1923 - would I be proving my madness if I thought that it originally had a clerestory?

 

Here's a photy of it under restoration

[jhb171achill]

No, it didn't have a clerestorey. It would originally have had a "flat" roof like the MGWR six wheelers stored beside it. I'll try to dig out the diagram from the GSWR carriage book I have.

 

For modellers who have never seen it, it's important to note that it's being rebuilt as a brake first. It's original condition was as shown in the photo of its companion above.

[Jawfin]

Thanks. Ignore my rablings!

 

[jhb171achill]

Thanks. Ignore my rablings!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23142[/ATTACH]

 

:-)

[Mayner]

GSWR Carriage Diagrams 1975 H Richards & B Pender

 

lists 10 GSWR full brakes withdrawn post 1960 with 3 in service post 1964 the last withrawn in 1970 the oldest lasting longest in typical GSWR fashion.

 

No 18 -1905 -1964, No71-1911-1966, No1070-1908-1961, No1073-1908-1961, No1078-1908-1963, No72-1898-1962, No69-1888-1968, No72-1898-1962 No79-1887-1970,No116---1887-1962,

 

The MGW 6w coaches probably survived longer because they were not as old as the GSWR 6w stock and the 3rds had better leg room with 5 compartments on a 30' underframe compared to 6 on a GSWR 3rd

Edited March 8, 2016 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

I'd go for the leg room idea, Mayner - most MGWR survivors (to 1963 latest) were 1890s origin, a few late 80s.

 

They were also very solidly built - though so were the GSWR ones....

[airfixfan]

In the Colourail Story there is a picture on page 121 of a 6 wheeler in Black and Tan livery which is immaculate.

[jhb171achill]

Any idea where and when it was taken, airfixfan? That's one of the very few books I don't have!

[DiveController]

In the Colourail Story there is a picture on page 121 of a 6 wheeler in Black and Tan livery which is immaculate.

Didn't understand the reference, air fix. Where? Thanks

[airfixfan]

Have the book at home will check details tomorrow but photo taken at Ballaghaderreen.

[airfixfan]

Book is The Colourail Journey published in 2010. Has some nice and rare Irish photos in the book.

[DiveController]

Book is The Colourail Journey published in 2010. Has some nice and rare Irish photos in the book.

Thanks for that. Hmmm….. wasn't aware of this. Found their website but it seemed to be predominantly UK

[jhb171achill]

New one to me too. Thanks for highlighting it, airfixfan.

[airfixfan]

Now I got mome to ckeck the correct title is A Colour-Rail Journey, photo taken in 1961 and coach is immaculate. Picked the book up for a fiver a few weeks ago at the Glasgow show.

[jhb171achill]

Any chance of posting the picture?

[Weshty]

There is a B&T 6W in Tom Ferris' A second Glance Page 71 in 1962.

[jhb171achill]

I have that book, Weshty, and P 71 is GNR steam in Enniskillen....