Characteristics of CIE MetroVick C Class Locomotives

[DiveController]

I decided to start a new thread rather than continue to discuss the C Class on the very informative thread started by jhb on the A Class Metrovicks here;

Liveries, headlights and wipers were discussed here

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/5384-Symphony-in-quot-A-quot-July-1975-Drogheda/page6

 

I realize that not every one may have a copy of the excellent but now somewhat rare® book by Barry Carse on Irish Metro-Vick Diesels (Colourpoint, 1996) but for those that do or know, can you please comment the following;

There is a silver connection on the yellow bufferbeam of C203 in black livery in November 1968 (p36). This is described to be for train heating with certain coaches

1) Waas this peculiar to C203 alone or did other C/201 class locomotives have this connection?

2) Did C class locomotives supply HEP to the train?

3) Electric or steam heating?

4) Which 'certain coaches' did it supply heating to?

 

Thanks,

K

Edited November 25, 2016 by DiveController

[Mayner]

During the 1950s CIE modified a number of carriages to "self heating' coaches for branch line services with electric heating powered by a small under floor gasoline or diesel driven a/c generator.

 

The generators were not very reliable in service and a small number of C Class were modified to provide HEP to these coaches. The Loughrea Coach was a modern Laminate brake standard with electric storage heaters which were charged overnight.

 

The need for HEP with the C Class would have disappeared with the ending of passenger/mixed train services on short feeder branches apart from Loughrea.

 

There is information on the saga of the self heating coaches and C Class operation in the Irish Railfans section of the RPSI website

Edited November 25, 2016 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

There may have been problems with the HEP on the Loughrea line as the carriage used to be plugged into a land line at night to charge the storage heaters. On the other hand, this may just gave been when it was working with a G.

 

It must have got cold in it pretty rapidly during the working day! And on the rare occasion they had a second coach on the train, no heating in that one at all!

[Mayner]

The saga of the Self-Heating Carriages and fitting 10 C Class with ETH connections is mentioned in IRN in Jan 1956 & Jan 60

Five coaches 2089,2094,2096,2097 & 2098 were experimentally fitted with Victor diesel generators supplying 220V/ac for heating and lighting. The Jan 1956 edition notes that they were moderately successful and two coaches were in use on the Clonakity & Drimoleague Skibereen-Baltimore branches in West Cork.

 

10 C Class (no numbers identified) fitted with electrical connections to supply power to the Self-Heating carriages and the generators removed from the coaches by Jan 1960.

 

Apart from West Cork it’s difficult to establish where the self-heating carriages were actually used most of the short feeder branches that still had passenger services were steam worked to the end Birr and Ballina are possibilities as the passenger/mixed went over to C Class operation in late 59.

 

It’s unlikely that a C Class operated a train with ETH after the 1963 closures, the “self-heating carriages” were all withdrawn from service by 1964 and CIE had adapted night storage heaters charged by cheap off peak electricity for heating the Loughrea coach. There simply were very few places for a C to potter around with a single coach apart perhaps from the Inchacore Works train, but I don't think the operating people would have been to happy about a C Class breaking down and blocking the main line out of Kingsbridge

 

Apart from pilot duty and filling in for the Loughrea G Class the locos were basically redundant by the mid 1960s. Its possible that CIE did not remove the ETH connections from C Class locos until the locos were re-engined with Maybach or GM power units.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Mayner

[DiveController]

Great information John and Jon and very interesting.

 

I also noticed that the C class locomotives at one point were equipped only for a vacuum braked train with little to see on the bufferbeam apart from the occasional Electric Train Heating connection as you described above. At other times (and this seems to be later in in their careers mostly in B'n'T) they seem to have multiple hoses right and left on the bufferbeam consistent with air braking and reservoirs etc. I wonder if the C were equipped with train air brakes when they received their new engines which brought them from only 550hp to about 1100hp. Also present on B233 in Black with yellow ends which had been re-engined with the 1200hp Maybach

I haven't seen this on the A class (except of course 029sa which was the only one with airbrakes)

Edited November 26, 2016 by DiveController

[Mayner]

Great information John and Jon and very interesting.

 

I also noticed that the C class locomotives at one point were equipped only for a vacuum braked train with little to see on the bufferbeam apart from the occasional Electric Train Heating connection as you described above. At other times (and this seems to be later in in their careers mostly in B'n'T) they seem to have multiple hoses right and left on the bufferbeam consistent with air braking and reservoirs etc. I wonder if the C were equipped with train air brakes when they received their new engines which brought them from only 550hp to about 1100hp. Also present on B233 in Black with yellow ends which had been re-engined with the 1200hp Maybach

I haven't seen this on the A class (except of course 029sa which was the only one with airbrakes)

 

The additional hoses on the B201 class was to allow multi unit operation and operation of Push-Pull trains with de-motored AEC railcars on Dublin Suburban services. There is a photo in the Irish Metrovick book of Maybach powered B233 leaving Connolly in multiple with B191 on a Sunday morning Dublin-Limerick train.

 

The B201s were really hard worked on the Dublin suburban services & seem to have been less reliable than the pure-bred GM locos with almost daily reports of delays and breakdowns, this may have contributed to the early withdrawl of the class following the introduction of the DART & replacement with small GMs on Drogheda and Arklow services

 

The class basically took over the majority of Dublin suburban services with the introduction of push-pull trains and cross city services in the early 1970s, they also regularly worked bulk and bagged cement trains between the Drogheda factory and Dublin

Edited November 26, 2016 by Mayner

[DiveController]

On the baby GMs the MU connection seemed to be a simple affair with a single cable between locomotives (all by the same manufacturer of course). I saw the MU working you referred to with the Black & yellow B233 in multiple with a 181. It had not occurred to me that such MUs occurred, over 2000hp with the more powerful 201 in charge. There must be at least 4 hoses on the 201s bufferbeams, possibly one for GMs, AECs etc, (hence my confusion regarding their purpose)?

When re-engined they would have been almost as strong an an A class had been, and much better equipped for heavy freight then when originally put into traffic

[Sulzer201]

I remember them in Bray pre DART days on the old Push-pulls, they were a class that seemed to have been withdrawn very quickly in the end, considering the very restricted budgets and resources that CIE had to contend with at the time? I also remember sitting in the old restaurant on the second floor of the Busaras building and seeing them regulary slogging back and forth there in the city centre. As Dive says, they certainly got a new lease of life with the doubling of their HP output, I would love to see one on a rail tour some day or visit Downpatrick to see the class in action there.

[jhb171achill]

I remember them in Bray pre DART days on the old Push-pulls, they were a class that seemed to have been withdrawn very quickly in the end...............

 

I would love to see one on a rail tour some day or visit Downpatrick to see the class in action there.

 

There was nothing much for them to do after 1984, a bit like all the stored 201s now, while Korean biscuit tins trundle round on customer trains...... pity passengers and goods are long gone......

 

Both "C"s will operate on passenger trains on the DCDR once restored fully. C231 is as good as there already.

[Sulzer201]

Thanks jhb, great work all round to have two examples of this unique class to that standard. I will definitely go up to see and hear one of them when fully operational again. Tommy.

 

 

Love this photo by Brian Flannigan - great atmosphere.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/holycorner/6755193447/in/album-72157628999720825/

Edited November 28, 2016 by Sulzer201

[DiveController]

That's a great shot in Supertrain. Many looked like this in the late 60s prior to re-engining. Incidentally an example of the ETH that was discussed above on the buffer beam.

Have to agree and be grateful that someone had to foresight to see them preserved.

Again, from Brian Flanigan

 

[craven1508]

Lovely shot,s! . mmm that black and tan livery was class.

[Eiretrains]

There are two extremely detailed articles written on the CIÉ A and C Class locomotives during their Crossley years which were published in the IRRS Journal in 1983 (issues Nos. 91+92), the information been largely compiled from first-hand accounts of the locomotives. Although the articles are scant in regards of quality illustrations, it more than makes up for this by way of unique and in-depth reading content, having said that however, many recent issues of the IRRS Journal have illustrated very well the A and C Class locos at work.