head lights not working

[controller]

Hi all, I have just purchased a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance.I programmed all the locos I have and everything is working fine, except my MM IR 201 and 071 head lights. Marker lights and cab lights are all working fine. FO 0 will turn on the marker lights, FO 3 and 4 will turn on the cab lights. FO 2 will turn on the head lights, but only for a couple of seconds. Any advice on what I need to do, to fix this problem.

 

Thanks,

 

Controller.

[Noel]

Hi all, I have just purchased a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance.I programmed all the locos I have and everything is working fine, except my MM IR 201 and 071 head lights. Marker lights and cab lights are all working fine. FO 0 will turn on the marker lights, FO 3 and 4 will turn on the cab lights. FO 2 will turn on the head lights, but only for a couple of seconds. Any advice on what I need to do, to fix this problem.

 

Thanks,

 

Controller.

 

What type of decoder are you using?

 

MM 071 and 201 require 6 function decoders if you want to operate the cab lights but 4 function decoders will operate the directional marker lights and head lights ok.

 

Most likely you may just need to do a decoder reset, or the decoder you have used has strange function mappings. Doubt it is anything to do with the controller (i.e. Prodigy).

[controller]

Hi Noel, The decoder has been working ok until now, when I use the Hornby Select. I bought the decoders when I bought the locos, and all functions are working ok. The only function I can't get to work with the Prodigy is the head light on both locos .Do you think I may have to do a decoder reset,in order to use the Prodigy?. If so I will have to read up on the users manual or look for help from you guys.

 

Thanks,

 

Controller.

[irishthump]

The problem is with the controller, the Prodigy has the F2 button assigned to be momentary function. That is it only stays on as long as the button is pressed. Double check by holding down the function key. This can be changed on some controllers but not the Prodigy.

The prodigy is an American controller so it is designed to take account of the fact that most American DCC sound decoders have the horn assigned to F2.

 

Since it was working on the Select I would say you have the correct type of decoder (6 function), but the only way to fix the problem is to assign the headlight to a different function key. This is not too difficult be we need to know exactly what brand of decoder you are using. A decoder reset will do nothing in this case.

[controller]

Sorry in the delay in getting back. I am not able to say which decoders they are. They are either a Hornby R8249 or a Bachmann 36-566.But they may not be either of these,I found the instruction leaflets for these in my bag of tricks.I will check with Marks Models to see if they can tell me which decoder they supplied with these locos. The only writing on the decoder is a small round sticker with the numbers 06/12/44. This may not mean anything.

 

Thanks,

 

Controller.

[irishthump]

Sorry in the delay in getting back. I am not able to say which decoders they are. They are either a Hornby R8249 or a Bachmann 36-566.But they may not be either of these,I found the instruction leaflets for these in my bag of tricks.I will check with Marks Models to see if they can tell me which decoder they supplied with these locos. The only writing on the decoder is a small round sticker with the numbers 06/12/44. This may not mean anything.

 

Thanks,

 

Controller.

 

I doubt it's either of those as they are both 4 function decoders and as Noel said you need 6 functions to get all the lights to work. They are also both 8 PIN chips so wouldn't fit the 201 without an adaptor.

If you have a programming track you can read back CV8 which will give the manufacturer number, at least we'll know what brand it is. But at a guess if it was fitted by Mark's I would imagine it is the Murphy Models decoder which is an ESU.

[controller]

Thanks for that. I had a feeling it was not one of them. I will take your advice and find the manufacturer number and check with Mark's in the morning to confirm .

 

Thanks again,

 

Controller

[controller]

I have confirmation from Marks that Murphy Models fitted the 201 and 071 with ESU decoders.

[Noel]

I have confirmation from Marks that Murphy Models fitted the 201 and 071 with ESU decoders.

 

Ok, do the decoders look like these ESU LokPilot V4.0 21 pin decoders below? These are 6 function decoders that will operate all the lights correctly on 071/201 models.

 

I'm a bit baffled by the cab lights working on F3 and F4. They are directional and should switch on/off using only one function, not two separate functions one for each cab end. This suggests perhaps the decoders have accidentally had functions remapped.

 

As a process of elimination I would suggest resetting one of the decoders by writing 8 to CV8. Don't forget this will put the loco address back to the default of 3, so either test as loco ID 3, or change the address back to the loco running number you previously had. I could be wrong, Irishthump knows a lot about programming ESU decoders, but as far as I can remember function latching is determined by decoder programming rather than cab settings. Assuming the decoder reset changes nothing, then perhaps a read of the Prodigy advance manual may be in order to see how functions may be mapped on the hand held cab. I once accidentally used the wrong CV when adjusting the volume of an ESU sound decoder, and caused the lights to misbehave (i.e. flashing). I had no idea which CV I had messed up so a decoder reset CV8=8 at least brought it back to retail-in-the-box defaults.

 

 

[Noel]

This might shed forgive the pun someday me light on it?

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/1296-DCC-Question

 

The MM0004 and MM0005 decoder chips need to be in the correct locos.

 

Or this

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65830-murphy-mm0004-its-an-esu-but-which-one/

Edited January 24, 2017 by Noel

[controller]

Hi Lads, That is the exact decoder I have in each loco. F1 will turn on the red marker light, and F0 the white marker lights. These functions change when I change loco directions. F1 white and F0 red. F4 and F3 will turn on the cab lights. I still have to hold down F2 to operate the head lights. I have never reset a decoder before, I don't have a clue. How would I go about writing 8 to CV8. All functions are working fine when I use the Hornby Select.I know the Prodigy does not work the same as the Select.All help would be appreciated, thanks.

 

Controller.

[Noel]

Hi Lads, That is the exact decoder I have in each loco. F1 will turn on the red marker light, and F0 the white marker lights. These functions change when I change loco directions. F1 white and F0 red. F4 and F3 will turn on the cab lights. I still have to hold down F2 to operate the head lights. I have never reset a decoder before, I don't have a clue. How would I go about writing 8 to CV8. All functions are working fine when I use the Hornby Select.I know the Prodigy does not work the same as the Select.All help would be appreciated, thanks.

 

Controller.

 

If the lights are working with the hornby controller don't bother with a decoder reset. The decoder is not the problem. Instead as IT suggests you may have to change some settings in the Prodigy controller (i.e. Function mapping or latching on F2).

[irishthump]

I can give you a list of cv's to change if you're comfortable with programming the loco yourself.

[irishthump]

If the lights are working with the hornby controller don't bother with a decoder reset. The decoder is not the problem. Instead as IT suggests you may have to change some settings in the Prodigy controller (i.e. Function mapping or latching on F2).

 

Neither the function mapping or the function latching are adjustable in the controller. The function mapping (which function key controls which function) is adjustable by reprogramming decoder cv's.

Edited January 24, 2017 by irishthump

[Noel]

Comprendee.

 

However, these sort of technical and compatibility issues are what bug me about current DCC specs and usability during setup. It's hard to believe that consumers are still exposed to internal technical concepts such as CVs in 2017. Its a bit like having to programme my old 088 Motorola brick cell phone which '#' this and '#' that on the keypad, but then in the 90s Nokia invented easy plain english menus, and then came along iPhone and opened the technology to grannies it was so easy to use. DCC needs to become like a modern consumer appliance - easy, intuitive and just work out of the box without needing to know much about it. I enjoy tinkering with it, but boy it seems jurassic early 1980s electronics.

[controller]

Hi Noel, Irishthump, At the moment I would not be comfortable with changing anything,least of all the controller. I might take a chance at the decoder if you could give me the CVs and tell me how to go about using them. The worst I can do is mess up the decoder. I agree with you about the compatibility issue. Thanks again. I will sit down this evening and study the user manual.

 

Controller.

[irishthump]

Hi Noel, Irishthump, At the moment I would not be comfortable with changing anything,least of all the controller. I might take a chance at the decoder if you could give me the CVs and tell me how to go about using them. The worst I can do is mess up the decoder. I agree with you about the compatibility issue. Thanks again. I will sit down this evening and study the user manual.

 

Controller.

 

No problem. It can be a bit daunting to attempt programming a decoder for the first time. But it is very easy with the Prodigy and I know because I use one myself!

You can do all your programming on the layout but it's best to build a small programming track as this will eliminate the chances of accidentally reprogramming another loco.

When you do attempt to programme a decoder if you don't like the results you can reset the decoder back to the way it was when you first got it by setting CV8 to 8.

 

When you want to try let us know and I'll give you a list of CVs to programme that should give you front and rear marker lights on F0, headlights on F1 and cab lights on F3.

[controller]

Thanks Irishthump, I think I might take the bull by horns and go for it. On the controller, do I press prog to get started?. And where do I go from there?. Don't have a clue to be honest.

 

Controller.

[irishthump]

Thanks Irishthump, I think I might take the bull by horns and go for it. On the controller, do I press prog to get started?. And where do I go from there?. Don't have a clue to be honest.

 

Controller.

 

When you press the PROG key you will be able to scroll through 3 options. The first will say PROG TRACK. To use this mode you need to have a seperate programming track wired to the controller. The 2nd is PROG MAIN which lets you program locos while they are on the layout.

The 3rd is READ PROG which allows you to read back CV values. This only works on the seperate programming track the same as the PROD TRACK option.

 

When you press the PROG key these options will come up in the follwoing order:

 

PROG TRACK

PROG MAIN

READ PROG

 

You can just keep cycling through these 3 options until you find the one you want then press enter.

 

If you haven't got a programming track you will have to use PROG MAIN and leave the loco on the layout. I would recomment taking every other loco off the layout until you get used to programming as it's very easy to make a mistake and for example change ALL the locos on the layout to the same address!

 

When you select PROG MAIN press ENTER and a loco address will flash on the display. This will be whatever loco you were running last. If that's the one you want to programme, press ENTER. If you want to programme a different loco key in the address and press ENTER.

 

The display will then show you a sequence of the most commonly programmed CV's. These will flash on the screen and you either type in a value and press ENTER to change them or just press ENTER to skip to the next one. They will display in the following order:

 

Adr - loco address (CV1)

Sv - Starting voltage (CV2)

Acc - Acceleration rate (CV3)

Dec - Deceleration rate (CV4)

Tv - maximum voltage (CV5)

 

After these you will see CV#. This allows you to programme whatever other CV you wish. If you enter a CV number for example CV3 which is acceleration, you scroll through to CV#, press ENTER, key in the value you want, press ENTER. CV# will flash again in case you want to programme another CV, if you don't just press ENTER which will bring back out to the driving mode on the controller.

 

I'd recommend you try to programme the acceleration (CV3) to 0. You will be able to tell immediately if it has worked as the loco will have no momentum. You can then try programming CV3 to a large value, once again to make sure you are doing it correctly.

 

If at any stage you get stuck and can't find your way back out of any option don't be afraid to power off the controller and start again!

 

I've just realised how complicated this looks when written down! But once you do it a few times it becomes second nature and it's one of the simpler systems to use.

[controller]

Thanks Irishthump, It does look a bit complicated,but like you said, I can always power off and try again. I will probably have to do so a few times before I get it right. I will try tomorrow and let you know how I get on. Thanks for all your help.

 

Controller.

[burnthebox]

Hi controller, for what it's worth & not in any way taking from all the information, advice & knowledgeable help you have got from the guys on here, there's lots on YouTube about this very issue, might be worth a look...BTB

[Noel]

Good stuff re motor control CVs. How might 'controller' reconfigure the Gaugemaster cab or decoder function mapping for his headlights issue?

[irishthump]

Good stuff re motor control CVs. How might 'controller' reconfigure the Gaugemaster cab or decoder function mapping for his headlights issue?

 

This can only be done by reprogramming the relevant CV's.

I think the following CV changes should do the trick.....

 

First, CVs 16 and 32 need to be given the following values. This step is very important!

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 2

 

Then programme the following CVs like so:

 

CV363 = 16

CV379 = 32

CV426 = 4

CV442 = 8

CV458 = 16

CV474 = 32

 

This should give you front and rear marker lights on F0, headlights on F1 and cab lights on F3.

 

I don't have a Murphy's decoder so I can't verify it. If anyone can programme one to doublecheck, that would be great!

 

Even if this doesn't work a reset will restore it to its original settings. Set CV 8 = 8.

[WRENNEIRE]

This can only be done by reprogramming the relevant CV's.

I think the following CV changes should do the trick.....

 

First, CVs 16 and 32 need to be given the following values. This step is very important!

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 2

 

Is this correct Thumper?

[irishthump]

This can only be done by reprogramming the relevant CV's.

I think the following CV changes should do the trick.....

 

First, CVs 16 and 32 need to be given the following values. This step is very important!

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 2

 

Is this correct Thumper?

 

Yep, Dave. But that's only if you want to access a CV above CV255.

[Noel]

 

Yep, Dave. But that's only if you want to access a CV above CV255.

 

Strangely the NCE Procab allow you to directly write to CVs above 255 POM (program on the main), but on the test/prog track it needs these two register CVs set! JMRI no problem though via the NCE controller USB or RS232 port. How bizarre DCC still is - like having to make a phone call by rotating a sprung disc over printed numbers that create pulses!

[irishthump]

 

Strangely the NCE Procab allow you to directly write to CVs above 255 POM (program on the main), but on the test/prog track it needs these two register CVs set! JMRI no problem though via the NCE controller USB or RS232 port. How bizarre DCC still is - like having to make a phone call by rotating a sprung disc over printed numbers that create pulses!

 

That depends on the decoder. Loksound use indexing to give the option of over 1000 possible CVs. The Powercab will NOT set the index automatically, you have to set the index CVs to the correct value with any make of controller. JMRI may do it automatically, as does the Lokprogrammer.

[Noel]

 

That depends on the decoder. Loksound use indexing to give the option of over 1000 possible CVs. The Powercab will NOT set the index automatically, you have to set the index CVs to the correct value with any make of controller. JMRI may do it automatically, as does the Lokprogrammer.

 

Thanks, Interesting. The 5amp Procab (as opposed to the 1.5amp Powercab) does it automatically on the main (eg: LokSound, Zimo, etc), but not on the test track which requires the registers to be set!

[irishthump]

Thanks, Interesting. The 5amp Procab (as opposed to the 1.5amp Powercab) does it automatically on the main (eg: LokSound, Zimo, etc), but not on the test track which requires the registers to be set!

 

Don't see how that's possible. CV's 256-511 need to have the register set in CV32 which can have a value of 0,1,2 or 3. Depending on what value is set for CV32 each CV above 256 controls 4 possible functions. The Procab has no way of knowing what value is needed.

[Noel]

Don't see how that's possible. CV's 256-511 need to have the register set in CV32 which can have a value of 0,1,2 or 3. Depending on what value is set for CV32 each CV above 256 controls 4 possible functions. The Procab has no way of knowing what value is needed.

 

I've no idea how or why it works, but it does work with CVs >255 POM (on the main), but not the test track unless the registers are set. Bizarre.

[irishthump]

I've no idea how or why it works, but it does work with CVs >255 POM (on the main), but not the test track unless the registers are set. Bizarre.

 

Well all I can say is that you MUST change those CV31 and 32 to access the correct function CV. If you don't then sooner or later you run the risk of changing some obscure CV which will cause the decoder to start misbehaving.

[Noel]

Well all I can say is that you MUST change those CV31 and 32 to access the correct function CV. If you don't then sooner or later you run the risk of changing some obscure CV which will cause the decoder to start misbehaving.

 

Yes its strange. For instance I can dim the cab light intensity of MM0044 and MM0055 LokSound decoders, or the volume of whistle via CV331 on the main without manually adjusting CV32. Perhaps the NCE cab does this automatically temporarily when POM (i.e. if CV>255 entered), but then why not also on prog track. Same for my Zimo chips no probs changing CVs > 255 POM without adjusting CV32, but not on prog track which requires CV32 to be set.

[controller]

Thanks Gents, My head is spinning here, I think I will take up fishing.

 

Controller.

[burnthebox]

Controller for what it's worth, I have read that you cannot run / drive a loco that's on the programme track, only having been programmed can you run that loco, I'm sure others far more experienced than I am on here will explain this in more detail, BTB

[WRENNEIRE]

Have some nice Hardy Split Cane rods I might swap for your Railway stock, controller.....

 

[controller]

Thanks for the offer Wrenneire, I think I may be a bit too old for sitting at the bank of a river or lake in the rain. I think I will stay in my nice warm house with my few trains. My ould bones will thank me for it. Now to get that headlight working.

 

Controller