jhb171achill Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) This is a good enough quality photo of an ACTUAL transfer, as used on steam locomotives whether green, black or normal grey; on buses, road vehicles and passenger carriages. The green paint is actual CIE green paint. Having seen the original daily for forty years hung on Senior's wall, I can confirm that this photo reproduces the colours accurately. Note the gold lining. For those modelling steam, it's important to note that the "snail" on tenders was this colour, and gold lined, always - never white, as Lima implied on their early and crude models by today's standards. Nor yellow as incorrectly applied by the RPSI to 184 and 461 in the 1990s. This darker shade of green, while seen on steam locos and buses to the end, was replaced on passenger stock and diesel locomotives by the lighter shade seen on RPSI heritage stock, and at Downpatrick on some stock, from 1955 onwards. The original may be seen in Headhunters Railway Museum in Enniskillen. Many of the other mounted coats of arms there (but not all) are mounted also on boards with original paint - Clogher Valley, CDRJC, NCC, GSR (but not GSWR), and Cork, Blackrock & Passage are original paint. So are DNGR, BCDR, and DSER (loco black). One of the GNR ones is, and one is in "works grey" as it was mount on its board in the 1940s when paint was either expensive or unavailable! Feel free to copy and use as you see fit. Edited January 19, 2018 by jhb171achill 3 3
DiveController Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 @jhb171achillSo just too clarify this is the post '55 lighter green?
jhb171achill Posted January 26, 2018 Author Posted January 26, 2018 No, that's the 1945-55 one as far as carriages are concerned; see RPSI wooden heritage set or the C class at Downpatrick for the later version. Any green steam engines, plus all CIE buses, retained the above until the end of the green era in 1963.
jhb171achill Posted January 26, 2018 Author Posted January 26, 2018 Shortly after the abolition of the time-honoured CIE green liveries, the "flying snail" was replaced by "roundels" or "broken wheels". I include this to show precise proportions for this device, as modern imitations are often wide of the mark. There were but two exceptions. When the 071s were first delivered, they had a non-standard browny tan instead of the orange-tan that was normal; this had been applied in the USA and along with it an all-white roundel of wrong design. Also, if you look at the IRM bubbles, you'll see a roundel which is not like this. The wheel is too large and the sections too far apart. But, as yet another way of showing how truly accurate IRM's products are, this is absolutely prototypical - the real things had a non-standard logo EXACTLY like IRM have produced....! 4
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Can anyone confirm the dimensions of the (full-size) flying snail transfers? The height would be fine as I can scale the rest off that. I appreciate that there were several different sizes and ideally I'd like to know the height of each. My estimate of the medium size is about 11" high. I have read that the small ones were 5" high. Are these about right? How high were the bigger ones used on loco tenders etc? @jhb171achill have you got access to an original that you can measure? Many thanks, Mol 1
jhb171achill Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Can anyone confirm the dimensions of the (full-size) flying snail transfers? The height would be fine as I can scale the rest off that. I appreciate that there were several different sizes and ideally I'd like to know the height of each. My estimate of the medium size is about 11" high. I have read that the small ones were 5" high. Are these about right? How high were the bigger ones used on loco tenders etc? @jhb171achill have you got access to an original that you can measure? Many thanks, Mol Yes, I have. Will post when I dig out the details. I spent the first 25 years of my life seeing an original hung in the hall on a board painted at Inchicore…. 1 1
murrayec Posted January 31 Posted January 31 The IRRS booklet 'CIE Rolling Stock Painting and Lining Schedules' has dimensional info for logo, numbers & lining for coach stock The snail;- 7'' from the circle center to inside of gold edge 16'' from center to outer tip of the wings 1/4'' gold edge on circle & outer edges (top & bottom) of wing 1/8'' gold edge ends of wing and on internal edges of wing Eoin. 1 1
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 7 minutes ago, murrayec said: The IRRS booklet 'CIE Rolling Stock Painting and Lining Schedules' has dimensional info for logo, numbers & lining for coach stock The snail;- 7'' from the circle center to inside of gold edge 16'' from center to outer tip of the wings 1/4'' gold edge on circle & outer edges (top & bottom) of wing 1/8'' gold edge ends of wing and on internal edges of wing Eoin. Ah, super, many thanks. Sounds like a book I need to get my hands on! That must be the larger size and is pretty close to my estimate. I'll adjust mine to get it spot on.
murrayec Posted January 31 Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Ah, super, many thanks. Sounds like a book I need to get my hands on! That must be the larger size and is pretty close to my estimate. I'll adjust mine to get it spot on. Get this one also 'Compendium of CIE Rolling Stock Drawings' lots of tin van info, including internal plans for TPO, boiler and generator vans. Eoin 2
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 4 minutes ago, murrayec said: Get this one also 'Compendium of CIE Rolling Stock Drawings' lots of tin van info, including internal plans for TPO, boiler and generator vans. Eoin 21 minutes ago, murrayec said: The IRRS booklet 'CIE Rolling Stock Painting and Lining Schedules' has dimensional info for logo, numbers & lining for coach stock Such things no longer seem to be advertised on the IRRS website. I wonder whether @leslie10646 can advise if these IRRS publications are still available?
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Excellent. Now I can get some of these sized correctly. Many thanks. 3
jhb171achill Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 A point on the use of this yoke on steam locos and carriages. While snails were painted (originally) and stencilled (late 50s onwards) onto goods stock, carriages and steam locos ALWAY had this transfer applied. This is why despite numerals on steam engines being pale yellow, the "flying snail" on the tender was ALWAYS pale green, edged gold - or else no snail at all. The transfers were not made in any other colour. Thus, without exception, yellow, gold or white (or pink, tartan, pale blue or rainbow) coloured snails on tenders of locos are always as incorrect as a bright red double-arrow BR logo would be on a BR blue diesel. 1
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said: A point on the use of this yoke on steam locos and carriages. While snails were painted (originally) and stencilled (late 50s onwards) onto goods stock, carriages and steam locos ALWAY had this transfer applied. This is why despite numerals on steam engines being pale yellow, the "flying snail" on the tender was ALWAYS pale green, edged gold - or else no snail at all. The transfers were not made in any other colour. Thus, without exception, yellow, gold or white (or pink, tartan, pale blue or rainbow) coloured snails on tenders of locos are always as incorrect as a bright red double-arrow BR logo would be on a BR blue diesel. Am I right that the outline of the numbers on green diesels was also gold? It's hard to judge from photos but there's definitely an outline there, as seen in this photo from Ernie:
jhb171achill Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 Yes, but it tarnished, often looking almost black as a result. I saw numerals on carriage doors ("1" or "2" - 12 ins high, incidentally) where the outline looked a sort of greyish-brownish from wear and weathering. But dull gold originally. Always a dullish gold, not bright ever. 1
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 24 minutes ago, jhb171achill said: Yes, but it tarnished, often looking almost black as a result. I saw numerals on carriage doors ("1" or "2" - 12 ins high, incidentally) where the outline looked a sort of greyish-brownish from wear and weathering. But dull gold originally. Always a dullish gold, not bright ever. Many thanks. I hadn't realised that the carriage class numerals also had a gold outline. Not on the Railtec transfers! I guess it's pretty thin in 4mm scale. These trial snail decals are 8mm high which is too big even for the largest size, but hopefully the outline will still work when scaled down a bit more. These are the colours I'm planning to use, representing a slightly faded/tarnished look. 1
leslie10646 Posted January 31 Posted January 31 7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Such things no longer seem to be advertised on the IRRS website. I wonder whether @leslie10646 can advise if these IRRS publications are still available? Yes, you can have both as digital copies. I'll PM you. Leslie
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