21mm Gauge rtr track

[DiveController]

Am I correct in thinking there is still no rtr 21mm track to purchase out there? Somehow in my mind I believe I may have hallucinated and confused the new Peco Finescale Code 75 bullhead track for a 21mm release. It'll be a larger layout so I'm ok with larger radius points but there is just no possibility that I’m going to make the track itself in addition to converting all the stock.

Comments and suggestions are appreciated

Thanks in advance

Kevin

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by DiveController

[David Holman]

Fairly sure there is no 21mm rtr out there DC. Be good if it was!

 Worth giving Marcway a call (advert in Railway Modeller). They do custom track in all gauges and at reasonable prices. Points will be 30-50% more than Peco, but if you made plain track yourself, it could balance out. I've been very impressed with their service.

Edited September 10, 2018 by David Holman

[Andy Cundick]

No nothing out there but to be honest once you get into the swing of it,building track isn't to bad,Courtmacsherrys was done over a weekend.ANdy

[DiveController]

On 9/10/2018 at 3:09 AM, David Holman said:

Fairly sure there is no 21mm rtr out there DC. Be good if it was!

 Worth giving Marcway a call (advert in Railway Modeller). They do custom track in all gauges and at reasonable prices. Points will be 30-50% more than Peco, but if you made plain track yourself, it could balance out. I've been very impressed with their service.

So Marcway will do 21mm track but as a custom order and points at a bit over the odds. Wonder if that that could be a bit keener for a fairly larger order? It's a shame that IRM or one of the manufacturers haven't considered this given the amount of interest in 21mm and the criticism on the site of those still 'on the wrong track'. Actually IRM's stock is easily converted including the new Tara's, I think?

[Colin R]

Sadly I think this is a chicken and egg situation. which comes first, I would love to have RTR 21mm gauge track (set to EM standards) that was not to fine but robust enough to allow modellers to get things running without having to use a micrometer, while this will not help the P4 modellers as such, it would I think give a bit more support to those that wish to model the correct Irish Gauge, and who knows what will happen if you start to get say 5 or 6 modellers take this up and display this at Exhibitions not only in Eire but in the rest of the UK as well anything is possible.

Colin 

[DiveController]

I was browsing online and there are templates to help built points out there but I haven't found one for 21mm gauge as yet. I'd be happy if even a even a single rtr prototypical  (or short fictitious point,  like Hornby/Bachmann etc. which are much shorter than prototypical points, like 1st and 2nd radius curves, in general) and 21mm gauge flexitrack. One could built quite a bit with that and work from there. Still looking for someone interested in producing that as are you all. I'm sure

[Colin R]

I did ask some one at Peco a couple of years ago and the answer was if you can find some one to stump up the design cash they would do it, just need to win the euro lottery in that case, if that happen I would also go to Bachmann and ask them to do all the MM in 21mm gauge as well (now that would set the cat among the pigeons).

Colin

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, DiveController said:

I was browsing online and there are templates to help built points out there but I haven't found one for 21mm gauge as yet. I'd be happy if even a even a single rtr prototypical  (or short fictitious point,  like Hornby/Bachmann etc. which are much shorter than prototypical points, like 1st and 2nd radius curves, in general) and 21mm gauge flexitrack. One could built quite a bit with that and work from there. Still looking for someone interested in producing that as are you all. I'm sure

I just blow up EM gauge Society point templates to 21mm gauge to maintain the prototypical crossing angles and switch lengths . The other alternative is to have a play with Templot software http://www.templot.com/ which includes  21mm P4 p.w. design. Templot includes an "irish EM" with a reduced gauge to compensate for the slightly wider EMF  wheelsets, though I personally have not had to reduce the gauge below 21mm though clearances between splashers in some steam locos can be tight.

Forget Hornby/Peco Streamline point geometry for handlaid track, The Peco Code 82 and Atlas range are a more accurate starting point with prototypical crossing angle than a radius. From experience a point with a 1:6 crossing angle and an A switch is about the minimum full size or model for a typical Irish 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 locomotive, a full size 2' gauge 2-6-2T loco and 1:20.3 scale DRGW 2-8-2 tender locos.

One of the main reasons OO persists is that the narrower than prototype gauge allows enough running clearance or slop in the chassis to allow a large steam loco like a Duchess, Black 5 or Merchant Navy to go round a 1st or 2nd radius curve. If you want a continuous run layout EM and P4 demand larger space than an equivalent layout in 00.

Unless you restrict yourself to short wheel base 4w or short bogie locos and stock 1st & 2nd radius curves are unlikely to be a runner in 21mm gauge. In 21mm for normal main line stock 900mm is generally accepted as a min-radius where the EM gauge standard is used 1200mm with the S4 standard.

Its probably better to stick with OO if you want to build a large layout in a restricted space or where your focus is on operation rather than building and modifying stock. Mounting the layout near eye level and using finer scale track OO gauge bullhead track like SMP or C&L reduces the visual effect of using OO gauge track for an Irish Broad gauge model and save a lot of time and potential frustration trying to adapt rtr locos and stocks.

If the compromise of OO is unacceptable and  21mm to EM or P4 Standards un-achievable an alternative would be to develop an "Irish Coarse Scale Standard" based on OO Gauge proprietary wheel and track standards and either narrow the gauge or widen the bodies and running gear to provide enough clearance for the wheel sets.

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Mayner

[DiveController]

Are there any track plans/drawings available for prototypical Irish crossings anywhere. I understand there are 6-8 basic points and crossovers in common usage (plus there are others I'm sure) 

[Colin R]

I am sure the IRPS will have the details in the files somewhere, but who to ask.

Colin