GSR carriage colours

[jhb171achill]

Our friend Cyril Fry had his models display all three GSR liveries.

1.  Dark “crimson lake”, which was a Guinness-like very dark crimsony maroon, so dark it looked almost like a dark brown with a reddish tint. This is very well reproduced on Downpatrick’s ex-GSWR coach 836 (though ignore the cream panels!)

After 1925, all carriages both broad and narrow gauge were gradually repainted thus, though Senior recalled a passenger brake to be found around Inchicore bearing an older GSWR livery well into the ‘30s.

This was essentially the old GSWR colour applied to everything but without the GSR’s sometime upper cream panels.

 

2.  From the late 1920s, SOME stock was repainted brown and cream, with panels painted and lined as shown below. Most coaches, however, had the upper panels completely cream up to roof level. A thin black line below the windows separated the two. Two thin black lines were just above window level and just below roof level, against the cream background.

Despite Fry’s model in this livery being a six-wheeler, I have found no evidence to show anything other than main line bogie stock plus a single example of a six-wheel passenger brake (used in main line trains!) ever carrying this.

Anecdotal evidence is that it was a “main line livery” with the majority of all stock (including 6-wheelers, secondary vehicles and narrow gauge) all remaining the dark “lake” colour.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

3.  From 1933 a new livery appeared which would eventually cover all stock - a much lighter maroon actually the same as (British) LMS maroon. The Belfast & Co Down seemed to use the same shade, or one virtually indistinguishable.

 

[David Holman]

Just SO useful!

[DiveController]

Really love the maroon GSR (crimson lake too) with the bilingual destination boards. Pure Irish class!

[Magpie1951]

I remember reading an IRRS article or it could have been New Irish Lines with a picture of a GSWR 1st class 3 wheeler painted in chocolate and cream. The article said two 1st 3 wheelers were painted in the livery for mainline use if I remeber correctly.

[jhb171achill]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:03 PM, Magpie1951 said:

I remember reading an IRRS article or it could have been New Irish Lines with a picture of a GSWR 1st class 3 wheeler painted in chocolate and cream. The article said two 1st 3 wheelers were painted in the livery for mainline use if I remeber correctly.

I’d be interested to see a three-wheeler....!    

Fry’s model is a 1st class coach, indeed.

It must be remembered, of course, that some six-wheelers - usually firsts, mail vans or full passenger brake vans, were often on main line trains mixed in with bogies ancient and modern, right up to the early 1960s....

 

[Auto-Train Original]

I wonder how many retained this livery into CIE days and for how long? Did any ever get a Flying Snail 'patch'?

[Mol_PMB]

9 minutes ago, Auto-Train Original said:

I wonder how many retained this livery into CIE days and for how long? Did any ever get a Flying Snail 'patch'?

There were still some carriages around in GSR livery in 1950, and perhaps a few into the early 1950s though unlikely to be in regular front-line service.

It can be hard to tell because almost all photos from that era are monochrome.

This photo from Ernie is interesting in that the GSR-era third class digits are clearly visible under the later CIE digits. But what colour is it? We may never know.

 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Auto-Train Original said:

I wonder how many retained this livery into CIE days and for how long? Did any ever get a Flying Snail 'patch'?

The latest I’ve found evidence of, still operating and still in by now VERY badly faded GSR livery is about 1956/7 - one coach on the C & L; and an old bogie brake of some sort on the main line about 1951/2/3.

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

This photo from Ernie is interesting in that the GSR-era third class digits are clearly visible under the later CIE digits. But what colour is it? We may never know.

 

This is in CIE green, but hasn’t seen a paintbrush for yonks. They’ve put new pale green later-era numerals on top of the badly faded predecessors. The faded numbers visible don’t have the elaborate gar style, so they’re early CIE eau-de-nil. 

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The latest I’ve found evidence of, still operating and still in by now VERY badly faded GSR livery is about 1956/7 - one coach on the C & L; and an old bogie brake of some sort on the main line about 1951/2/3.

This is in CIE green, but hasn’t seen a paintbrush for yonks. They’ve put new pale green later-era numerals on top of the badly faded predecessors. The faded numbers visible don’t have the elaborate gar style, so they’re early CIE eau-de-nil. 

Well I thought the larger size, slightly lower position and the balls on the ends of the 3's looked just like the ones on this GSR-liveried carriage:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507855972

They may be ghosting through a later application of CIE green.

[jhb171achill]

It IS possible, yes, but I’d sway towards early CIE. 

One thing can be taken as certain, though; IF it’s old GSR numerals, and cuts a very big “if”, the coach will indeed be badly faded maroon. 

The coach numeral at the far end is CIE style too, again suggesting green.