Early Dieselisation - Continuous run "micro" layout

[Sean]

So once i had begun to play with my track plan I wasnt too thrilled with the fun factor and decided to take it all up and start again. it can be a bit of a challenge to build a compact layout like this and keep it interesting to play with but this is what ive thought of after a couple of hours messing with bits of track on my baseboard.

 

track plan slightly based on westport quay from another thread however shortened a bit and slightly modified for a more modern feel.  I wanted to be able to run slightly longer trains onto it even as a shunting layout to keep it interesting.any feedback is appreciated.

trains will enter from fiddle yard through a tunnel just like cork kent but i would also like to use it to give the impression that we are down closer to sea level and possibly use some cliff in the backscene, passenger trains will usually run around and return straight away but occasionally the last service of the day will call for the coaches  to be left behind and a load of goods taken down the line,  when these goods return then the next morning that loco must take the coaches before normal traffic resumes for the day , theres also a loco spur for the e class to sit at as it usually stays stationed at the goods yard but taking the occasional train to the next depot (fiddleyard) the spur can also be used to store a few excess wagons if needed until a train can return them. goods loads can be either mixed or specific trains depending on network demand at the time. the station will be expanded to be 2 full coaches long.

 

just down from this we have a small oil depot for filling tankers and a loading island which serves both tracks , road wise these must be accessed over a level crossing. the loading island can serve either cie sundries containers for side loading or ex br vans for loading and unloading.

 

down at the end of the line weve got the containers industries. the lower track would be dockside and containers would be lifted to and from ships that are docked here. in the top siding I would have a container gantry over it built as a low relief structure which would serve as a way of transferring containers from the railway to the road. for operational interest i think it would be cool if the only way to get a container off a ship and onto a truck is by first unloading from a ship and then having the e class come and transfer it up to the gantry crane on the other siding.of course if the loading dock or oil depot is in use this will create more shunting work for the operator.  this is why it is stationed here permenantly and we dont use the service loco to do the shunting for us. I am thinking about hooking up a second controller which could keep the sidings shunting as a passenger service came in and ran around. for example it could be crawling a couple of containers down from a ship as a passenger service rolled in and ran around its train or even just general shunting to build up the next outgoing freight train. there are only 3 points here also, so point motors and uncoupling hardware might not be out of the questionas there would not be a huge amount of the. to set up.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Sean

[David Holman]

Some good ideas there. Think it is always worthwhile to consider operational potential of any layout, especially if it is going to be more than a simple diorama. If siding space is limited, my favourite dodge is to have a line going off scene. It might be a kickback to the fiddle yard, or a small cassette at the terminus end. Either way, wagons shunted off scene can be deemed to serve a whole variety of places, from factories to oil depots, military bases etc. Allows great variety wagons, trains and indeed shunting, which is of course what small layouts are mainly about.

[Sean]

So, this idea has been shelved, as it did not tick all of my boxes, and since this is going to be my primary place to play trains for the first time in years, I want to keep it interesting, so it was time to critique what i really did want to get from this layout  so I could get to planning somthing better.

I really want a continuous run of track, its really nice to just have the oppertunity  to give a loco somewhere to stretch its legs and sit back and watch  rather than always having to drive manually on a shunting layout. sometimes shunting may become boring and it would be nice to send a train off on its way to free the operator up to watch  for a while. That being said,  I really dislike the feel of a "tail chaser" train set setup on an oval of track, which is what most of my early model railway days mainly consisted of. and this too can get boring, I have enough time and patience at the moment to make a good stab at a proper model railway, unfortunately living in an apartment it was going to be difficult coming up with a layout to fit into all of these constraints.

 

At some point i stumbled upon Budget model Railways 18" wide continuous run layouts and these really did tick a lot of the boxes and i got to thinking if i could make one work with my style of modelling in mind, I still want to be able to buiild up a half believable scene.  I have a pretty long space to dedicate to the layout and  will be an interesting challenge building an irish layout within these constraints.

 

with all of this in mind i got to work and put together and huge but also rather compact baseboard. at 18" by 7.5 foot its sitting snugly on a table behind my couch, and can easily operated comfortably from said couch,under nice living room lights, I did have a small loop of 18" flexi running a train but it was ancient and i didnt have the correct track pins so it soon fell to bits(im very inexperienced with flexi also) but it did prove that the trains would run ok. I took the baseboard from the abandoned layout and set it up as a backscene, for now, not sure if it will be kept or not.

 

Given the types of rolling stock i have been assembling lately and where i am located in the world I have decided to build a fictional ex DSER station and goods yard in an era of early dieselisation up to around the 70's, this gives me an interesting line up of rolling stock which can be made to work on the layout and give an interesting scene to build up. I am not sticking to an exact prototype as certain substitutions in rolling stock may be made to account for spacial constraints, rules 1-3 will apply here. that being said some of what will actually run on 18" track will surprise you as much as they have surprised me, but cie shunters will feature heavily with the odd steam train(only the hornby 0-4-0 nothing to special.

 

spent a good bit of time today with my track and the geohive maps coming up with a layout that i quite like but unfortunately did not have nearly enough track to put it together and am awaiting an order before i can continue any further but it does give a little breather to play with the model building again.

track plan is incorporating elements from a few different DSER stations but customised a little to suit the narrow board.

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Sean

[Sean]

So I had been holding off on putting  up my track plan because i was fairly sure it wasnt going to stay the same, and since i had to put in an order of track anyway to get some fresh flexi i thought it would be good to spend a few days going over different station designs to come up with somthing that I will like and will suit my needs. laid the track and had a nice bit of an operating session today/night and i do like the layout a lot.

was not great craic bending lenghts of flexi down to 18 inches and i ruined the first couple of pieces (although i did fix and reuse one as to save waiting till mid next week for another. overall the sections of flexi are running well but i havent completley pinned them down yet as to allow for slight adjustments, the main issues i am having are coming from using my old stock of track but that should be fixed in the coming week with anything dodgy being replaced. 

 

the whole backscene track is made up of old bits of settrack , HO track, and offcuts of flexi etc as i did not think i would need so much straight track and quickly ran out( and like i say i had already murdered my flexi for the job), so the trains arent running amazingly in there and in need of constant attention, but it got me running for the evening and now i will know exactly what to order next week.

 

used the hornby semi flexible track for the first time which is probabaly why i broke the first 2 lenghts of it pretty quickly trying to bend way to quickly. bend the last piece down much more gradually and it was a lot more forgiving.

 

am going to post an overview of the trackplan in the morning. as id like to get some feedback and or suggestions on how it works, however so far im liking how much i have squeezed into the small space. modelling is probabaly going to slow down now somewhat until i get all of my rolling stock projects and track gremlins out of the way now though. and it also gives me some more time to develop the idea and a place to play trains.

for now, heres a little proof of concept video showing off the 18 inch curves. which dont look nearly as bad as they sound. worth it to have a compact oo layout behind the couch for me at least.

a rather oddball pushpull set buckets into the station at an unrealistically fast speed, just to show i dont need to be too careful with the curve.

once this is in it clears the line for a 7 car mixed passenger goods to roll out at a nice slow pace, despite being on the exact same chassis i would say that the little cie steamer runs far better than what used to be a class 06 e class conversion at lower speeds.

beyond this once i added an eight wagon  it was starting to introduce a lot of wheelspin in the bends, although it could be due to a slight deformity in the baseboard surface which has created a slight step in the board cauing the track to incline slightly.still 7 wagons  to a small loco in a small layout is still a pretty decent size train  6 vent vans and abrake van  behind the little e class would look smashing.

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Sean

[Sean]

 

mixed goods departs via the freight loop as the push pull waits in the passenger loop.

loads of potential here for a fun little layout, and all from the comfort of my couch

running at this pace its just over 2 minutes for the train to complete the entire loop

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sean

[Galteemore]

Very nice indeed Sean. That little 0-4-0 tank is a good find - the chassis in those often runs like a Scalectrix car! Have you thought of buying a spare body to experiment on? If you cut out the boiler and put in a plain tube, built a new cab and rounded off the tanks, you could have a GSWR might have been. To complete the illusion, put in a spilt smokebox door.....   

[Sean]

@Galteemore ive actually got two more from different train sets that I could mess with, aswell as the e class which is the same chassis again just in diesel guise

 

ive got a couple of different shells for it too and a spare parts chassis so plenty of scope to mess around.

 

I think the next locos i want to get  to keep in with the theme of the layout are  a d class (will look at class 08 for conversion) and a G class but undecided how im gonna go about that just yet, theres a couple of candidates i have in mind.

 

so finally im getting around to a showing the track plan. backscene is down for the moment as the old track is rather unreliable in a few spots and reaching behind it is no fun, so down it came until i go track shopping again

 

 

there was really 2 DSER stations that took my interest in how the track was laid out on the old maps and the 2 that became of most interest to me were Tinahely and Gorey and the track plan is incorporating elements of both,

 

the single platform with runaround format which was more commonly seen on the shilelagh branch was appealing for a small layout like this because it would save the space of modelling a big 2 platform station, there will however be a second terminating platform which could be used for railcar or goods services which seems to have been on a lot of the old blueprints.

 

the freight end of the yard is  a copy of the old track plan at gorey station, minus a couple of sidings that were off to the other side as these did not fit,  was a bit of a challenge to work out the logic of all of the points  but i think im pretty close now,  there is a second siding which still needs extending out when i can buy some more track. theres also passing loops to run three individual trains at a time on the layout if i so desire so there can be plenty going on.

 

was goofing around with a running session today/tonight and tried to push the curves to their limit a bit,  one of them is running absolutely perfectly however the one that went down with damage will soon need to be relaid as its causing problems with certain combos of rolling stock. the chairs are loose over one section so its a nightmare asking it to stay in place. the rails usually spring out pretty easily.

heres a double header of steam pulling 10 wagons plus a coach and railcar around an 18 inch curve :D! It would have been possible to take more except for the issues with the other curve, this is longer than any train I will most likely run anyway although i wouldnt be surprised if i orderded 10 dapol box van kits soon

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sean

[jhb171achill]

That really is quite an eclectic collection of stuff, Sean! I'm following your endeavours with great interest!

The "Little Giant" and (red) "Hornby" 0.4.0s are, as you point out, the same as the green one with the CIE logo. A lick of paint on both of them and you've three "CIE"-ish engines. Paint 'em dark grey - and the green one is your "passenger" steam loco, and the other two are "mixed traffic" or "goods" locos.......

[Sean]

Cheers,  what was a few weeks of head scratching has turned into more of a feeling of somthing nice coming together.

have just pulled my 6 wheeled heating van around the layout, somthing i had convinced myself was impossible during testing so happy day. have not purchased any new rolling stock so far except the cie containers and my modelling supplies which are lasting well. the finished AEC will see me happy, always had a soft spot for DMU type things.

I would be more interested in diesel than steam as thats what i grew up watching on the railways, the limiting in space limits me to a very specific era of diesel though which i dont see modelled as often so thats another reason why i am aiming for this collection of stock.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sean

[Galteemore]

Excellent progress. I know that this has been used for a G class conversion in the past...https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254048838248

[Sean]

not a bad idea with that lower skirt on the chassis to cover up the wheels it wouldnt be too difficult by the looks of it.

I had been looking at trying to get the dckits shell onto the hornby 0-4-0, the obvious problem being the valve gear though and the exposed wheels. but a skirt to cover them could probabaly be fabricated  with a bit of work. maybe a nice project but i would just as easily buy the proper chassis for that.

 

the other option i have would be one of these bagnalls which is a match in many ways however again the wheels would need skirting off  and after looking at them again maybe the bonnet area is too big, which would make you wonder would the dckit chassis even fit onto the hornby at all as i know from the other locos that the motor would take up most of the space inside there. they only cost 40 though and are said to be an excellent runner. eyes have been on ebay for a second hand one but im not paying new prices for a second hand loco  which seems to be happening a lot on ebay right now.

[Mayner]

The DC Kits G Class may not fit a Hornby 0-4-0 chassis, the loco was designed to fit a Black Beetle http://www.steameramodels.com/bbeetle.htm .

The Black Beetle motor bogies were very good, the power bogies may no longer be available Mashima the company that manufactured the motors have gone out of buisness

If you are using the Hornby chassis it might be better to see if you can pick up a used Hornby diesel shunter body at an auction.

[David Holman]

The early Triang diesel dock shunter may be a start for a G, the chassis being a four wheel bogie. Pretty old now, so only second hand. Scary to think had mine over 50 years ago, but it could pull more than my Princess Royal pacific and had a top speed of Warp 9, while buzzing like an angry hornet.

[Sean]

the dock shunter was on my list of maybes, as well as the dapol class 04 body.

that chassis seems to use the same motor  setup as the railcar im making and i know exactly what you mean. independant worm gear to each axle and it can both crawl and fly faster than youd ever want it to.

 

there has been some strange, far out experimentation happening during the course of the night, and it looks like i may already have components for a g class contender.

 

 

its even motorised already.  will explain things in the other thread as its a bit of a frankenstein all said and done but it does run

 

its around the same lenght as my 20 foot container so i know the lenght of the thing is roughly to scale.

 

[Sean]

 

Diesel traffic slowly increasing at the station, Im expecting a couple of points and more flexi on friday so i can replace some troublesome sections and finalise the track plan, am gonna be getting into scenics then.

[Sean]

layout has progressed decently over the weekend,  replaced the dodgy curve and the whole backscene straight with brand new flexitrack. derailment issues are finally a thing of the past. also finally own enough track  to finish laying the sidings.

 

went into one of the department stores also and came out with a free lifetime supply of polystyrene blocks too  so been using that to mock up how the scenery should eventually look,  when i get the hang of making scenery, i have more than enough to experiment with though was nice to be able to just cut out the desired station platform and go with it.

 

this end is still bare, will probabaly eventually develop it with a small little village pub and cottage or the likes. its also adjacent the front door here so it will make for a nice viewing area for guests

 

backscene starts by entering the tunnel, with retaining wall running along the siding.

 

 

exiting the backscene which i eventually want to conceal with a concrete bridge running overhead

 

 

trying to develop a bit of a freight yard down the other end of the board. the raised section would be both a cattle pen and a general loading dock which will handle a mixture of goods. road traffic would enter on the overpass , the rough broken polystyrene would be to eventually represent rock face which will form the backscene ,i can currently blow it down by coughing, but at least it gives a taste of the desired shape.

 

 

in real life the line the the G is on would have run through a large goods shed, tried putting a shed here but i think its just not happening I might however just about squeeze in the ratio container crane which is another thing i just kinda want all along but thought it wouldnt go on the layout

 

performance wise the layout and tight curves are running really well and since relaying  the bad bend i seem to be able to get almost any item of rolling stock around them

 

the one limitation that i have hit however is when i try to pull 2 large coaches around them both the E and G can do it but they both struggle a little at lower speeds with an annoying amount of wheelspin. pulling a single coach and generator van is no problem though and wont look too outta place on this layout as im trying to represent an early rural branchline. the railcar should get around the layout without any hesitation also which can make up the larger passenger services.

 

a note on era im thinking roughly 1970 given my choice of yard and rolling stock, loose coupled goods(i think its called)....... the steam train would only appear occasionally as a preserved loco doing a railtour with the 3 4 wheeled coaches which will be repainted into cie green in due course.

quite pleased with progress so far, will update again as more happens.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Sean

[Sean]

 

not done much for the week but had a bit of a running session tonight. what a great view to be sitting with my feet up on the couch. the g is a clunky little runner at times,  rebuilt the E and added a bit of weight to it and its running much better now and more comparable to the other 0-4-0's

I think the G may run better with a different controller as when i have a second loco elsewhere running on the track it crawls along smoothly at a stupidly slow speed just like it should be, and im using the basic old black hornby controller...when i try to run that loco on its own at a slow speed its all shaky like in the vid, so the issue is definitely an electronic gremlin of some sort to work out.

 

have a nice package coming from dapo/ratiol today so should see some progress over the weekend.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Sean

[Sean]

 

got curious after this last post and decided to plug in a bachmann controller, MASSIVE improvement from this one. that makes the loco very usable now the PWM from hornbys controller was literally rattling it to bits lol

Edited September 4, 2020 by Sean