Mol_PMB

Agreed. Spare triangulated coach underframes would also be useful, unless IRM plan to do ALL the coach types put on them. Some even ended up as NIR PW flats, as shown in this photo by Jonathan Allen, linked on Flickr:

Many thanks John, that's useful to understand the differences in the panelling. 1. I agree that the 'silver coach' in the railcar set in the Killiney photo is a Bredin, it's a 1331-1334 series GSR suburban composite, and the particular spotting feature is that the end doors open into a seating bay (with a small window each side of the door) whilst the middle door has a vestibule. I can't decide whether it's really silver but it certainly looks that way. There's another colour photo in one of my books of a GSR suburban brake standard in the late 1950s, which also appears to be silver. 2. Agreed, it's a 2162-2171 series composite. 3. The TPOs are interesting, they are definitely a different body profile and I think you've hit the nail on the head for the reason why. Here's another of Ernie's photos with a closeup of one of the 4-wheel ones in silver: That photo and this IRRS one clearly show the cover strip at the waist: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257008899 Somewhere I have some photos of the interior of one of the preserved bogie TPO's, I'll have to dig them out and see if the framing is visible. This photo of Ernie's dated 1959, and the IRRS one linked below it dated 1960, I think prove that the later laminates, specifically these two batches delivered in 1958-1960, were painted green from new: 1449-1496 standards (8 bays of 8 seats) 1909-1913 brake standards https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53499133230 The first photo also nicely illustrates the lack of horizontal strip at the waist as you mention.

Quite a few seem to have been bought by people who are immediately offering them on eBay at even higher prices - well over £100 for a single coach!

Yes, you're correct for the bodies. The underframes were steel so they must have been painted. Most people describe the livery as 'silver' which is why I used that term.

I have been trying to work out which CIE carriages carried 'silver' (more accurately aluminium) livery. I'll start with this lovely 1959 photo from Ernie of the 'space-age silver' TPO, luggage van and carriage contrasting with an ancient 2-4-0 kettle and an equally ancient wooden van: I think I've worked out the following: Carriages built up to 1953 on the traditional underframe and GSR-style bogies were green with black underframe (matching the AEC railcars). Carriages built in 1954/55 on the triangulated underframe and commonwealth bogies were green with silver underframe. This includes the Park Royals. Carriages built from around 1956 to 1958 were all silver (matching the newly delivered Metrovick locos). This includes: 1429-1443 and I think 1444-1448 standards (7 bays of 10 seats) 2162-2171 composites 2700-2765 4w tin vans 2962-2971 4w TPO (but with black underframes, and silver carried up onto edge of roof) 2972-2978 TPO (but with black underframes, and silver carried up onto edge of roof) 3101-3141 4w heating vans Buffet cars 2419-2422 were also built in this period but I'm not sure whether they were green or silver? I haven't found a photo of a silver one. The carriages introduced from mid-1958 onwards reverted to green livery with black underframe (as did the diesel locos). These included the later-built laminates and tin vans: 1449-1496 standards (8 bays of 8 seats) 1909-1913 brake standards 2172-2179 composites 2549-2558 bogie brake/luggage vans 3142-3152 4w heating vans After that, I think it was black and tan. So, to the questions: Have I got this right? If so, then there weren't actually very many silver passenger carriages - only about 30 of them. Many more vans of course. Were all the silver carriages true 'laminates'? The TPOs in particular do not have the normal bulbous 'laminate' cross-section. Some of the silver carriages had their numbers and class designations in red. Was this true of all of them? Were any older carriages repainted or reclad in silver/aluminium in this period? Asking because the 1331-1334 series GSR suburban composite, nearest carriage in Ernie's photo below, looks rather silver! (note - there is a silver laminate towards the rear of the train for comparison) Thanks to Ernie and IRRS, a couple more images of silver carriages, mostly in colour, just to make sure I've illustrated all six types listed above: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257008899 Nice mix of 3 silver and 4 green carriages here, with a black and tan 141 on the front: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257002708 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257198895

Thanks for the update and photos - though it’s sad to see them cut I guess the cement traffic is unlikely to return. I guess they moved them so they could be cut well clear of the running lines. Both for the safety of the people doing the cutting and to avoid any risk to passing trains. Perhaps they were shunted by rail across to the south side siding and then a road crane brought in to lift and turn them?

Good thinking. I may have to do the same on the Park Royals. I do hope IRM are able to offer spares to make our life a bit easier, or even sell finescale wheelsets as Accurascale do for their locos.

Since the H vans will be winging their way to us soon, let me share this photo which is also a new arrival on the IRRS Flickr archive and dates from March 1964, at Inchicore. In the foreground is @jhb171achill’s nemesis, with a brush of black paint in his hand! This H van 18981 may be one of the first wagons to receive a tan roundel, as the logo had only been introduced couple of months previously. It’s in an odd place low down on the side of the van, and of course there’s that black underframe… https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251291181 The vehicle behind, also available from IRM is an LB flat, I think 23379, with snail logo and looking pretty clean and freshly painted in a slightly darker shade of grey than the H van. The flat wagon is carrying some sort of swapbody or Lancashire Flat painted bright red. This must be shorter than the later types as the wagon is only 16’11” long. It would be interesting to find more photos of these. Meanwhile, Limerick was painting smaller white roundels on wagons in 1964, and had got JHB’s memo about the underframe colour! https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307038

How’s this for some price gouging? They only sold out at Rails this morning! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/267127792976?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=PZV9O_R3QUC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=PWnBnL0RQpq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

This is a lovely colour shot of a pre-ISO CIE insulated container in snail livery, on fitted flat wagon 25314; photo dated 1964: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251527403

I'm really enjoying this talk - some great tales as well as the historical facts. Looks like there are some great photos to come as well. Thanks JHB! I'll just put this here... https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251291181

True, but in the majority of photos I've linked, there are distinctly different shades of green in the same photo and lighting conditions. That's why I picked them!

These photos from Ernie and IRRS illustrate '40 shades of green'... https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511443501 This can't all be weathering/fading effects, how many shades of paint were there?

71 would the the other possibility, it survived until 1966. Seen in light green in 1961 a few posts up.

If you've got 69 and 79, I've got 1177 and 18, so there were at least 4

Most of the Irish ones are now sold out, only 4 out of the 15 types are still available: Search: 15 results found for "cie genesis" – Rails of Sheffield My black and tan one arrived yesterday only 24 hours after I placed the order. It's nice. In due course I will look at widening it, I think 2mm on the chassis and perhaps 4mm on the body. Can anyone confirm the correct body width for an Irish one? The model is a scale 8'0" over the body itself, I suspect an Irish one ought to be 9'0".

I hope they don't fart methane as badly as cows... I can well remember donkey carts on the Irish roads, often with a couple of milk churns, and the donkey prohibition signs at the start of the motorway (I think there was only one motorway back then).

Having seen your nice Leader model on the forum, it's got me thinking about this approach to CC1. CC1 had much smaller wheels and shorter bogies than Leader, so what class of diesel would be a good starting point? Let's have a look... CC1 had a wheel diameter of 3'7", bogie wheelbase of 6'4" + 6'4", bogie spacing of 36'0" and length over buffers of 60'0". The wheel diameter is a common one for GB diesel locos, but the bogie wheelbase is shorter than many of the common Co-Cos. For bogie wheelbase, the better options are: Class 37, 50, 55: 6'9" + 6'9" (i.e. overall bogie wheelbase is 10" too long, around 3mm on the model) Class 52: 6'1" + 6'1" (i.e. overall bogie wheelbase is 6" too short, 2mm on the model) I think either of those options would be acceptable to most people. Looking at the overall length and bogie spacing of the above classes, Class 37: 37'2" bogie spacing, 61'6" length over buffers Class 50: 42'8" bogie spacing, 68'6" length over buffers Class 55: 45'0" bogie spacing, 69'6" length over buffers Class 52: 42'6" bogie spacing, 68'0" length over buffers So the Class 37 is a pretty good match, it's 18" too long overall (6mm on the model, or 2.5% as a proportion of the total length). The bogie spacing is 14" too long, about 5mm on the model. I think that sort of percentage error would be generally acceptable to many. I'm pretty sure CC1 is wider than any GB loco so there should be no problem fitting the mechanism in the body. So, IRM 'just' need to do is take an Accurascale class 37 and dress it up as CC1...

Electrification doesn't just cost money, it also 'costs' carbon. There's a lot of steel, concrete, copper and other carbon-intensive materials required, along with the emissions from the equipment used to transport and install it. One might also include the embedded carbon in the new fleet of electric trains. So there's a payback period - how many years does the electric railway need to operate for, before its installation carbon footprint is offset by the emissions reductions of the electric trains? For an intensively-used railway the carbon payback period can be quite good, because once the electrification is in use the savings on fuel burnt by each train add up quickly (actually the benefits are more than just the exhaust emissions - electric trains are usually lighter, require less maintenance, etc.) Potentially the benefits can be greater than that if a faster, better train service leads to significant modal shift from road to rail. When electrifying a sparsely-served rural branch line, it may take decades for emissions reductions to offset the installation footprint. In some cases, it might never be worth doing, especially if the rural nature of the line would actually require more infrastructure such as power grid feeds to be installed. The presence of freight traffic, and the prospect of more modal shift to rail, can help make the electrification case look more favourable. As well as the global climate, there's also consideration of the local polluting emissions. For busy railways in urban areas, air quality can be a serious issue and helps to justify a move to 'zero emission at point of use' traction such as electricity or hydrogen. But in the rural parts of Ireland this really isn't a concern at all. That doesn't help the case for electrification. One might almost argue that for rural railways with sparse traffic, a better solution is to stay with diesel and plant some trees to offset the emissions.

Wonderful - I look forward to joining. I will have to prepare some photos of wagons with black underframes to see if we can re-create that expression More seriously, I'm planning to attend some of the Manchester IRRS meetings in person. Does anyone on this forum go to those - would be nice to put a face to a name. Cheers, Mol

Not for me either, but thanks for the heads-up. The Ellis Clark prices can be quite good.

I'm always in awe of his rate of progress, and how he turns such unpromising components into a great looking model. I almost wish I hadn't binned my MTK Irish coaches some years ago; I could have a go at rebuilding them to a better standard. But sadly life changes left them in a landfill somewhere.

This evening I'm pottering in CorelDraw doing artwork for some early containers. More to do yet, I'm planning to do a range of CIE, B+I, BELL, Irish Ferryways. These are intended for my own use but if anyone else might be interested in some of these please let me know. I get them printed by Precision Decals using an ALPS printer on clear backing. A little more care is need in applying them compared to the Railtec transfers, but they can provide a very good result.

Super! I am tempted by one of these myself, so it's good to see one nicely built and painted. Is it motorised? If not, do you think it could be?

As I get older I find my memory isn't as good as it once was. When I went out to the shed to find the tools for mounting the display cabinets, I reminded myself that I'd got this, that's been screwed to the wall out there for 15 years or more and I'd completely forgotten about it! Well that's the identity sorted for a 121 class model! 131 was the first 121 class I travelled behind (or perhaps in front of - it was on the Limerick-Junction shuttle). I should have used this to check the artwork for my custom transfers - I didn't get the ends of the 3 quite right. I'll have to do the 3s again again...