jhb171achill

Hi J-Mo Liveries for those locos were as follows: Building date (1925) up to 1945: all were plain grey. No snails, obviously, as this was GSR days. Between 1945 and 1949, most - possibly all - were repainted standard CIE green, lined black and white. It is possible some stayed grey. 1949 - approximately 1955/6 - it seems that at least a few were either repainted plain grey, this time with a "snail", or else just had them added, never having been repainted green at all, though I suspect the former. Some time in the mid-50s, some were repainted black, I am not sure if any got a green repaint, as any remaining in green livery towards the end of the 50s were so very badloy worn, faded and filthy it was practically imposible to tell how they'd been painted. The "glossy black" one was a complete one-off - not just for the class, but for the whole of CIE, and for one very specific duty - the Cork-Rosslare Boat Train. However, this was very short-lived, as diesels took over and the loco went back to humdrum duty for a short time before being scrapped. Livery details: GREY - GSR: All over, smokebox, wheels & cab roof included. No markings on tender. Loco number on cast metal plate, with same grey background but numbers picked out in pale yellow usually (a few exceptions). GREY - CIE: Same as above, except loco number plates replaced by pale yellow numbers painted on cabside, and pale GREEN (eau-de-nil) "snail" on the tender. The "snails" were transfers, exactly same as my avatar logo here - which is a pic of one, and were thus lined in gold. Painted cabside numerals were not lined. GREEN - CIE: Green livery on loco and tender, including wheels. Details as on "Maedb" in Cultra, or any of Drew Donaldson's models - black and white lining. Same pale green "snail" on tender, but cabside numerals also pale green, and lined, if on a green loco. BLACK - CIE: Plain black all over, as with the grey livery, no relief at all. Pale yellow painted cabside numbers, pale green snail on SOME tenders; some CIE steam locos that were repainted in the last few years didn't have snails on tenders at all (a la GSR) while some did. "ROSSLARE" UNIQUE BLACK LIVERY: All black, single red lining. Pale green snail on tender, but pale green instead of yellow cabside number. It may be noted that in all circumstances above and elsewhere, yellow "snails" are never correct for loco tenders, white still less so! Always pale green, lined. I put up a post here ages ago, which I can't find right now, giving details of what 400 class and "Woolwich" locos had grey, green or black in the 1950s. In the case of "Woolwiches", while officially the policy was for these to be green after 1945, photographic evidence indicates a mixture of green, grey or black, so whichever is appropriate will depend on which loco number you're modelling. Hope that's of assistance!

I've heard the "cat" story, Minister, indeed - though while many corroborate it, no hard evidence appears to exist to support it. CIE did indeed hire consultants about their image - an early example of such a strategy - and several American railways had colour schemes based on the same or similar colours which looked very striking. The idea of looking outside Ireland for livery ideas was nothing new. Inchicore had as good as copied LNWR lined black, down to the red-backed numberplates, between about 1895 and 1915, when the all-grey appeared. The GNR outright copied the English GNR in loco livery, and also coach livery. Even the GSR looked across the pond at the GWR for its 1926-34 "main line" chocolate and cream livery, and the LMS for its post-1933 mid-maroon. The verdict has to be that either of these ideas, both, or even neither, are possible! I am unaware of any definitive record of who made the decision, and why. The only thing I recall hearing years ago is that the black'n'tan had been considered for buses too, but someone, somewhere hadn't liked that idea. The red and cream chosen was reminiscent of the livery of the old Irish Omnibus Co., which itself morphed (without change of livery) into the GSR bus services. The navy and cream Dublin city bus livery could well have come from an old Dublin tram livery / GNR bus livery as inspiration.

I suspect that like "Enterprise"-liveried 201s, no two were alike in that regard! I don't think there was a specific date with a specific livery change, as such. When any individual one gained its lower black band, I am afraid I haven't a clue........ It could be a bit like the "tippex" lines, IR logos and day-glo panels on the ends of A's, 121s and 141 / 181s in the 1987-mid 90s period. While officially the livery WAS "supertrain" with CIE wheel and no white lines, or - full "tippex" with IR logos, hybrid versions appeared, with CIE "wheels" being replaced by IR logos, but no white lines - on some - one at least with IR on the sides and CIE on the ends, or the old one simply painted over. Livery change periods are always of great interest to modellers; witness the UTA putting "wasp" stripes on some GNR units while still in GNR navy & cream, or paininting out GNR lettering on same and putting UTA "red hand" crests on them again while still in GNR livery. CIE slapped plain dark green paint on some secondary stock in the mid-50s with neither snails nor lining, just as short-term measure. Some 121s and 141s had the day glo panels at the ends, some didn't. No rhyme or reason. In the sixties, some As and Cs had yellow patches on the ends, some didn't. For the Dutch vans, pick a date you like and a van number you like, and copy from a photo, if strict accuracy is desired.

I have long held onto my own principle that I will refuse point blank ever to travel by any means of transport with graffiti on it. I don't care if the taxi is 40 times the price. Greek and Italian stock looks disgusting.

Personally, I'd throw the book at them, hard.

VERY much so. Personally, if I was a judge, I would be exceptionally hard on graffiti vandals. Totally right! “Suspend” it and it gives them more time to vandalise something else!

Superb concept, superb operational potential. Looking forward to this.

That stonework is sublime! Worth the effort.

Indeed; excellent book.

We’ll leave aside whether they’ll come home victorious or not! If they lose, the executive train back might cheer them up!

Will there be trains of Kerry supporters on Sunday?

Indeed! Or in shorthand, Brex.

Indeed, Leslie - you're quite right, and my apologies to Ken and Roger for the omission! OK, there's SOME stuff.....!

Take a vintage half-cab bus down that road, and it'll be like travelling in railbus 2A! Any trace of the foundations of that platform to place exactly where it was?

Agreed - and more people (including me) remember UTA steam than the NCC!

Same as many former lines in the west, too......

I suppose it would. For a West Cork layout, of course what you really need is silver and green "C"s! Same as I do for late 1950s Dugort Harbour.......

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/225059795355?hash=item34669bf19b:g:OE8AAOSwVnpiwz1V Black'n'tan 141 on fleabay for €143......... Also a dark green A46 for €286...

Ah, of course............ didn't think they'd rival buckfast, in all reality!

True, but there it is! The point being that even if a model has a sverely restricted prototype - or, in this case, a literally unique (and short-lived) one, this is not in itself a reason not to make a model of it. Imagine if they were doing a RTR "A" class in 0 scale, or a NCC / UTA "WT" class 2.6.4T. If a "Jinty" will sell - or if they perceive that it will - one is tempted to suggest that one of the aforementined might sell even better!

Now we need NCC wagons to go with them - and virtually nothing of any other company, especially across the pond RTR stuff, looks remotely like NCC goods stock, with a tiny few exceptions.

This is an interesting one. Both in recent times and over the years of this website, the debate often recurs regarding the extent to which a suggested production run of an 00 scale model would be viable or not, based on how "specialised" it was in some way or another - maybe only in existence a short time, only operating in certain areas, or only used for one purpose. The argument goes that such a thing isn't viable, because not every modeller wants to model the Glenties branch in exactly 1931. These "Jintys" were common as the commonest thing in Commonland - in Brexitstan. But HERE, there were but TWO of them, and one only operated a decade or so, the other little longer. More than that, theire sole function was to shunt a single terminus - York Road - and its associated dock lines. Even under "Rule 1", to have one operating on a main line train or anything else would be stretching credibility. In other words, it scarely possible to have a prototype with a MORE restricted background - or, to translate the logic to model production, a more limited market - in theory, anyway. How many of us are modelling Dock Street in Belfast in 1959, in "0" gauge? Now THERE is a "limited market", if ever there was one; as it is in this, and only this, environment that such a locomotive looks anywhere near appropriate. Yet there it is; and not even 00 scale. In 0 gauge, as above posts point out, there's almost NOTHING Irish KIT-wise, never mind RTR. So, either we're looking at a fortunate one-off (and for once in UTA modelling, with correct coloured lining) - or a sign that supports the opinion of many, in that you start providing stuff and the market will grow. As the Leaving Cert exam paper might say, "Discuss"!

Why? What percentage of alcohol do they have in them?

Still a MGWR enamel sign at Mullingar in the bottom pic - plus a black rather than grey 0.6.0. Few of the locos which were repainted black from the mid-50s on, and including this one, had the "snail" on the tender - only some of them. A tender which is so grubby that it's impossible to tell whether it was actually painted black or dark grey - WITH a snail - would have a greater chance of being originally grey. With a realistic layer of weathering, a steam loco seen in 1959-62 might as well be painted lime green, tartan and fluorescent pink, such was the layer of soot, oil, brake dust, rust and general gunk......

The extra charge is for Das Oktoberfest Surcharge.