jhb171achill

All we can say is that it’s not 4 or 56. There were about five, maybe six, at the end. Does that narrow it down to three? Or maybe the pic is earlier?

Silver: inception to early 1960s (last repainted out of it). Light (carriage) green: on carriages after 1956, extended to these locomotives plus C class from about 1959 onwards, due to poor weathering of the silver. Dark green: short lived and applied to only a few A class (and no C class); early 60s only. Black with high tan and no “R” after the number: 1963/4 repaints from green or silver. So in 1959-64 or so, green running alongside (VERY filthy!) silver. All black: 1965-68 repaints. Ran alongside green until last green repainted. From about 1965 yellow panels were added at the front of some but not all of the class. Same story with the Cs. Black with high tan band WITH “R” after the number, and also black with low tan band: introduced after each loco had its re-engining completed 1969-71 or so. About 12-15 had the high tan band, mainly those treated first, most having low band. “Supertrain” livery: CIE logos on ends only, no white lines: 1972-87. Same mostly orange livery with IR “set of points” logo and NO white lines: this was not an official “livery” as such - it was a quick way of “modernisation” by putting a new IR logo on the CIE “supertrain” livery. Locos of A, 141 & 181 types temporarily bore this variation pending a full repaint in the lE livery WITH white lines. So, 1987-1990 or so. ”Tippex” livery - nickname given to IE livery as, for cost-cutting reasons, instead of introducing a complete new livery, IE just amended the CIE livery by adding white lines! This was applied from 1987 onwards, when CIE was split into operating subsidiaries.

Well, I’ve upped MY order to four....! I’ll sell the house, plus the neighbour’s houses willingly.

Superb, KMCE, thanks!

The Tralee & Dingle crews used to drink there!

So it’s really no more complicated than getting an A3 printer somewhere!

From selfless sacrifice, in the spirit (or spirits) of online community, I hereby volunteer. Don't mention it.

I think those large blocks on the old alignment were something to do with some sort or wartime* observation structure. (* sorry, "emergency"!)

http://www.gloversbar.com/ Certainly wouldn't want to be barred from here!

If it was a wooden building, that's exactly what it would have looked like inside! Great job.

Exactly. First class upholstery tended to be more ornate, often with flowery patterns or some sort of interwoven leaves pattern. The GSWR and GNR both used patterns like this. Second class tended to be plain and of course initially third class was bare boards, eventually sparse plain upholstery. Even as late as AEC railcar days, I remember the quite intricate leafy patterns in the first class in these - it was a light greenish-grey pattern, I think.

Very interesting points... In terms of urban -v- rural, it's simply a matter of choice. As a "townie", my personal preference is a "culchie" setting.... but that's just me... for those who like an urban setting (and we have many superb examples here, from the very different Fintonagh to Barrow St), finding inspiration is easy, as rural towns (and most of quite larger towns) have a basic streetscape the same as they did before the railways were built; look at 1st and 2nd floor level in your local town. The street-level sign might nowadays say "Costa Coffee" instead of "J O'Sullivan Victuallar" but the building is the same - the windows on the next floor up are the same, etc. So an urban setting in Tyrone, Westmeath, Kerry or Kilkenny can be researched by a wander round town centres on those areas. Same with scenery, and I very much like Mayner's ideas above. A BCDR-based layout wouldn't be the same without drumlins, and a west of Ireland branch without turf bogs and stone walls. In planning "Dugort Harbour", my initial scenic thoughts were to be very much based on Westport Quay, which in railway days* was a world of stone walls, small hills and gorse. (* It's covered in holiday homes and a greenway now...). However, with nothing much MGWR available, but on the other hand SSM GSWR 6-wheelers, and J15s available (and now the excellent 00 Works J15s as well), I began to look towards Valentia Harbour, Courtmacsherry or Baltimore for inspiration. The result will have the stone walls and boggy sort of fields around, with a small stone culvert under the line, and scrawny gorse against the perimeter stone walls. As for a backscene, I thought of going to one or other of those places and taking pictures of the distant scenery for a backscene. Has anyone any experience of putting together your own photos to make a (somewhat understated) backscene? With many layouts the temptation is to cram as much track in as possible, which may add operational interest for many, but almost eliminates the chance to make the thing look realistic with scenery.... so I would think backscenes are important.... Those old buildings - superb!

I have to say, Glover, I remain bowled over by your carriages. They absolutely exude atmosphere like few others. You got me curious about Des’ photos taken round Warrenpoint, so I checked a few of his pics, and consulted a few old copies of IRN. All GNR crests. The remaining GNR wooden carriages were never meant to have been kept long-term by either CIE (who got rid of theirs pretty quickly as they were building laminates) or the UTA - who wanted to obliterate railways entirely. The stencilling - an essential feature of any GNR-area layout 1959-mid 60s..... I think you’re the first person I’ve seen applying this to models - congratulations on your eye for detail! UTA roundels were applied to newer ex-GNR stock (e.g. BUT railcars) before a repaint for one reason only - being comparatively recently newly painted, it was deemed a waste of money to repaint fully there and then. This didn’t apply to older stock, so they either repainted in full at an appropriate time, or left it if the vehicle was unlikely to be retained long term.

Are the Silverfox and / or IFM ones still available, does anyone know? The IFM website appears to have been hijacked by some stuff about UEFA and pictures of American skylines....

A shame....imagine, today, a 3ft gauge Luas from Crosshaven to Blarney!

Yes, the layout is wired for DCC and the seven engines I have aren't chipped, and one (SSM J15) isn't even run in. A bit of work there and chipping next. Dave has done a mighty job on the wiring.

I like the "narrow gauge" bit! An excellent job overall.

Not much happening, but a chance today to try a few of the locos out. Here, C231 approaches the station over the culvert over the Ballydung River, while two of the J15s are over the ashpit.

Anecdotes exist, timing the 800s at 100 or therebouts. My father travelled with his father on several trial runs of 800 itself in 1939. It was timed at just under 100 mph, but the crew said that bar a signal check or some other obstruction (the details of which I can't remember) they would have got more out of her. Correctly or otherwise, the opinion of crews was that they were well capable of 100 and a bit more. The "timing" fraternity of railway enthusiasts timed many a run at 80mph +, but as you say there was a line speed limit, which had more to do with track maintenance budgets and timetable paths (some trains were very slow!) than the performance capabilities of the 400s, 500s, Woolwiches and 800s. Actually, early speed trials of the 800 class WERE a lot more accurate than the whims of timers and enthusiasts. They had speedometers - the first ever in the Irish steam world. Since nothing else had them, they were eventually removed.

“Bom nua felicade”, or something, according to Junior’s Portuguese-speaking girlfriend.....! The Provincial guards Van is especially useful. Up to now, we’ve had the CIE one, but nothing from pre-1960. Repainted BR vans just aren’t the same. Then Provincial brought in the GNR one - superb! But this is suitable for GNR, UTA and NIR, as very few of these ended up with CIE, and those that did were replaced very quickly, so they’re hardly suitable for, say, a layout based somewhere down south after 1960. Now we have the GSWR and GNR vans for pre-1960-ish, and the standard CIE one for later. Great thanks are due, therefore, to Leslie, SSM and others. It might be pointed out, though, that while CIE standardised on their 30T and 20T vans after 1960, in the 1950s and earlier there were quite a variety of vans, not just of GSWR origin, but also GSR, MGWR, DSER, CBSCR and even one Timoleague & Courtmacsherry van which appears to have survived in use until 1961.

Leslie has announced a (long-needed!) CIE standard one this year. If you're listening, Leslie, put me down for ten at least! This, like the Bullied open, the RTR J15, various laminates and Park Royals by SSM and Silverfox, H vans and CIE / GSR goods brake vans is very welcome and completely essential elements of modelling Irish railways in the 1950s and 60s.

John - in the pic above of the J15 with the cattle trucks, what are the cattle trucks - kits or what?

Black ends on all GSR and green CIE stock, except the odd one with observation end windows - maroon for those. There were, for example, a few carriages with first class half-compartments at one end - these would have had one black end and one maroon. Lining for GSR stock: There were three liveries. Initially, they just continued with the GSWR very dark "crimson lake" which was like a sort of Guinness colour - looked dark brown / black at first glance, but on close inspection was a very very dark maroon. See 836 at Downpatrick. Then there was the short lived brown and cream. Lining on that was a single black line and it seems only to have been applied to front-line main line bogie stock. Once the "steels" or "Bredins" were first introduced in 1933, everything was painted as the models above - the same maroon as the LMS in Britain (and the NCC, for that matter). It was lined the same way too: two single yellow lines, one just below the cantrail, and one just above window level, with a "yellow-black-yellow" below window level - exactly as LMS. Secondary stock which was only used for excursions generally escaped getting any lining, as did most narrow gauge stock, and these would end up plain maroon. All carriages of all types, whether lined or not, had large yellow numerals denoting class on doors. These were shaded in red and black. The GSR crest was carried on everything but a few old Dublin and Kingstown, and Tramore, 3rds.

Great to see some in GSR livery. Will look great with a couple of SSM or 00 Works J15s. Any idea where you can get an approximation to the large shaded door numerals (for “1” or “3”), or a GSR crest? I’m nearly sure I’ve seen transfers somewhere for the crest. If it’s ever of any use to anyone, I have an actual mounted GSR crest which I could photo and send to anybody interested.

The thing I'm dealing with at the moment (or rather, Baseboard Dave is!) approximates to something between Westport Quay and perhaps Valencia Harbour. The idea was to have something simple, as space is somewhat limited at the moment, but which didn't look too crushed up. Still, it has to be interesting to operate prototypically. Initially I had toyed with 21mm, but settled on code 75 00 gauge. However, I still aim eventually to make an even simpler 21mm set-up, and your North Wall diagram above, and your comments, recalled this to mind. A layout based on shunting, while not everybody's cup of tea (but what is?) can provide an interesting proposition to operate. Therefore, I had thought of some sort of North City Mills type of goods yard; such a set-up could be as simple or complicated as one likes. Polloxfens Sidings as Ballysodare provide another similar interesting location, with characteristic buildings and VERY compact trackwork, including three-way points, a great rarity in Ireland.