jhb171achill

Excellent news, Leslie! (awaits 803 and 804 being built!)

He'd be overqualified. I'd like to see one o'those Inchicore types produce finescale kits like he does!

I've a vague notion it was a dark bluish or grey colour at first, but (filthy!) brown at the end.

Norman Foster has some good logs of them - must ask when I see him.

It was an experimental beet container, and only the one was made. It only got about 2 or 3 seasons before beet finished.

Talking of which, J15s could dis turn at times. Senior wasn't a “timer” as such, but like me did it a small number of times just for the experience. He was out and about one day, and found himself at Port Laoise. The normal train he was due to get back to Dublin had a 400 class on it - he had been hoping for an 800. The signalman told him there was an extra following it. He decided to await the extra just to see what it had. The main train arrived, heavily laden, and departed. Then came the extra. It was a J15 with (I think) about six old maroon wooden bogies and maybe a six wheeler. “Wish I’d gone with the 400”, he thought. Up he hopped onto the footplate (as he often did; his solitary trip to Burtonport had been aboard a 4.8.0!), and off went the loco - reaching speeds of well over 60, and with very smart acceleration, as he recalled..... the crew seemed determined to flog it! It was probably between 1940 and 1943. Even then, the GSR could pull more than a few rabbits out of hats. Bob Clements also recalled some very smart performances from J15s on passenger trains.

If you look at the pics of my grandfather's model, from which the actual GSWR paint was matched, you'll notice that I deliberately took pictures of it in sunshine, natural light shade, and artificial light. In photos, the variation is remarkable. This also explains the variation in recollections of the real thing. If anything, the real thing looks slightly darker even than the above pic. Good to see the correct coloured "snail"; none were ever white, yellow or anything else. Cabside numbers pale yellow - I'm presuming that's what's on here. Eye witnesses said that when newly painted, the grey had "bluish" tint. This was evident when 186 was correctly painted grey by the RPSI about ten years ago (she still has it in Whitehead museum), and on the above model. In traffic, especially in CIE days, they got very dirty very quickly, and tended to stay that way. Thus, a heavy dose of weathering is a good thing to have! Wheels grey too, by the way, and buffer stocks. Easy to organise!

It is, Irishrail201. It’s an exact copy from actual Inchicore grey paint. I now have a problem! I am DROOLING so much, I’m having trouble sending the payment for my two of these beautiful beasts!!!!!

The late Billy Lohan of Tuam, who I interviewed in detail many years ago, told me that in his time at Tuam shed, the allocation was always 6 or 7 J15s. He recalled being told, when he joined the GSWR as a cleaner in 1919 that he had to “polish the locomotive till the lining shone”. It is likely that many engines of the class served this route over the years - the above plus 171 (which, of course, would stick in my own mind) and others. When I get home I’ll look for the list.

The The grey first appeared according to some reports in 1918, but others suggest 1925. Prior to that it was shiny black, very nicely lined in red, or earlier still in red and white. In GSR days, all grey without exception. In CIE days, everything was grey until about 1957-ish. In the very last few years of steam, very few locomotives were repainted at all, thus many ended their days in a coating of oil, rust, soot and filth. Of the few engines that WERE repainted, some were repainted black. One Bandon Tank got it, No. 90 seems to have been black only for its last eighteen months in traffic, for example. Bob Clements passed a list on to me at one stage of what engines became black. However I have been unable to locate it; I have obviously misfiled it at some stage. From recollection, he either implied - or stated as fact - that no J15 was ever painted black. Several photos of J15s during the 1958-62 period appear to show them in black - but dirt on grey, and the limitations of photographic film back then, plus frequent poor light, can easily give this impression. The old GSWR lines black would look amazing! No. 171 is one J15 (no, Leslie, not the blue one!) that was known to work the “Burma Road” in the late 1910s / early 20s.

The pre-1915 black would have to be lined if authentic......! (Runs and hides!) I must look up my notes and see when they changed from red and white to red only lining.... Cast number plates were always black-background with the various pre-1895 green liveries. They seem to have been red background in lines black days. Once grey came in - ALL grey! Any CIE engines which survived to get black paint after 1957 had painted numbers, no plates. One, or possibly two of the CBPR 2.4.2Ts which went to the C & L ended up - once there - with red-backed numberplates, as did 801 and 802 after about 1953 anyway. J15s corresponded to the above, of course. Incidentally, many models of grey locos have bought numberplates on them with shiny numerals and black backgrounds. If accuracy is wanted, they would be grey background in all cases. Raised numerals painted light yellow. These numberplates weren't brass, they were gunmetal or cast iron or something, usually. So they were painted.

The grey first appeared according to some reports in 1918, but others suggest 1925. Prior to that it was shiny black, very nicely lined in red, or earlier still in red and white. In GSR days, all grey without exception. In CIE days, everything was grey until about 1957-ish. In the very last few years of steam, very few locomotives were repainted at all, thus many ended their days in a coating of oil, rust, soot and filth. Of the few engines that WERE repainted, some were repainted black. One Bandon Tank got it, No. 90 seems to have been black only for its last eighteen months in traffic, for example. Bob Clements passed a list on to me at one stage of what engines became black. However I have been unable to locate it; I have obviously misfiled it at some stage. From recollection, he either implied - or stated as fact - that no J15 was ever painted black. Several photos of J15s during the 1958-62 period appear to show them in black - but dirt on grey, and the limitations of photographic film back then, plus frequent poor light, can easily give this impression. The old GSWR lines black would look amazing! No. 171 is one J15 (no, Leslie, not the blue one!) that was known to work the “Burma Road” in the late 1910s / early 20s.

Superb stuff!

Ah, we don’t want themmuns here. Back to the drawing board.

What is a turbocad? Is it 4, 6 or 8-wheeled, and does it run on shteam, diseasel or eco-friendly globally warmed vegetable oil?

So, can you do it again the day after tomorrow for those who missed it, David? (runs for cover)

And yet, a certain level of commercial viability seems to exist for earlier times, even if not a big market. 00 Works' two GNR logos and the J15, as well as various Cravens, Park Royals, tin vans and laminates.

Hopefully the various posts on board here from time to time, plus photos of the era (and several fine layouts depicting these times) should help in this regard. The forthcoming J15 in RTR form plays a huge part in advancing modelling this era, as they were as absolutely central to it as a 141 to the 1970s, an 071 to the 80s, a 201 to the 90s, or an ICR to today. Similarly, SSM kits of six wheelers are as essential as Cravens were 1965-95, and the elephant in the room for any layout 1950/74 is AEC railcars. Might one dream of a RTR one?

I was thinking of renumbering the 141s I have, to my "personal favourites" B145, B150 and B155. All too often, numerals available are the wrong font, size, or both. Some are BR arial style, fer gawds sake. Does anyone have any ideas as to accurate-appearance numerals for a black'n'tan 141? (OR A, C, B101, B121 etc....)?

I forgot to mention the bars on the inside of the van too.....

Phil You can access the C & L loco in Cultra, getting inside possibly by appointment. Mention that you are researching. But that's not a CBPR loco...... dunno about the 2.4.2Ts, but seeking photos of another loco by the same builder might assist? Regarding the coach, the seats were bus seats, all facing the one way. They had dark coloured plastic or leather covering - unsure of colour but probably well worn. And probably darkish green. The interior would probably have been painted a brownish colour. I know nothing of the van interior, unfortunately. Probably pretty bare, as just about everything was carried! The partition separating it from the passenger area probably had a central rather than side door. As befits the name, this thing was made of two bus bodies. Research on bus websites might help, as internally they weren't altered by CIE. Is there anything in the Howth museum or does anyone know about 1930s GSR buses? Seats would have been fairly standard. What sort of upholstery did the IOC use, I wonder, or early CIE?

Hello from Thailand! Yes, that fits with what Roderick told me - I’ve two of the beauties on order. Can’t wait! J15s were the single most important locomotive ever to run in Ireland.

We have a precedent, Noel, with 461 in CIE green - and extremely well it looks (as would, in my humble opinion, any engine), even though the shade on 461 is hopelessly wrong. Needless to say, in accuracy terms, 461 & 2 were grey always in current form. I saw a photoshop of the RPSI's GNR 171 in lined CIE green once. It looked absolutely amazing! My own personal preference, though, in preservation or layouts, is accuracy.....

They're Drew Donaldsons "0" gauge stuff. His model of Inchicore which is in Cultra. He didn't like CIE engines in black or grey, and he was very impressed with the lined green passenger livery, so he painted all his models inclined green, even if they never were green - which was the case with almost all of them! But they look amazing!

1963 Continued A note mentions the last passenger train from Limerick to Tralee. The normal two-coach AEC set on this occasion, as a one-off, hauled a "new second, No. 1502". As mentioned in the last post, while steam was now history on CIE, they did retain a sizeable stock of serviceable locomotives, as a precaution in case some major unforeseen issue might afflict the new diesel fleet. Thus, many locomotives were not officially withdrawn until the end of 1965 - but for the historian, it is important to note that doesn't mean that steam was in use until then. Far from it - not one of the reserve locos would ever turn a wheel in traffic again, bar the few used on the 1964 all-Ireland RCTS steam tour. Most would be scrapped, but as we know, ex-GN 131, 90, 184, 186 and 461 would find their way into active preservation, with the old No. 36 plinthed in Cork. West Clare 5c was by now plinthed at Ennis on the site of the former WCR loco yard. Two Cavan and Leitrim engines and one T & D would survive, but that's for another day. The UTA proceeded to overhaul nine steam locos, of which five were "Jeeps", one "W", and two GN 0.6.0s. Ex-SLNCR "Lough Erne", now also numbered 27, had just emerged from the works and would spend all its UTA life shunting around York Road. With CIE now all diesel, the Dundalk banking (steam) engine was gone. G614 had appeared at Dundalk as a shunter, and it would have been utterly incapable of banking anything heavier than a Dunnes carrier bag. Thus, the northern section of the goods train, now worked almost entirely by "Jeeps", often did two runs between Dundalk and Goraghwood. Ex-GN SG and SG2 class 0.6.0s would occasionally work these trains, having the same haulage power as a "Jeep", but these GN engines stayed mostly on the Derry Road, where they were very much to the fore on goods traffic. Unusually, Queens Quay (the erstwhile BCDR terminus) refurbished five ex-GN AEC railcars, as well as its usual diet of Bangor line MEDs (the single least comfortable railcars ever to run in Ireland; albeit only marginally worse than the utterly dreadful NIR "Castle Class"*). Several new Portadown locals were specifically in the hands of ex-GN BUT cars. As these cars had no forst class, they were particularly allocated to these services which were advertised thus as second class only. And just like West Cork, Warrenpoint station was completely refurbished and repainted. Closure couldn't be far away! An ex-GNR bogie parcels van, 780, appeared from Dundalk paint shop in black'n'tan; while F501 was taken to Inchicore and the ex-GN steam crane was sent with match trucks to Waterford. By June, a pogrom of small rural intermediate stations had occurred. No less than 33 stations closed completely, with another 20 surviving only for certain types of traffic - this was usually goods of some sort, with passenger services withdrawn. And from the bizarre to the ridiculous; the last two trains into Athboy were worked the whole way from Dublin by G612! (They must have departed just before the Great Famine....). One, on 29th March had eight cattle wagons, and the following day the other - the very last train on the line - had seven cattle wagons from Loughrea Fair, plus four empty wagons for the collection of signalling equipment. Now the line was shut. The Oldcastle line, by contrast, required A34 to handle 24 wagons on the goods the same day! A55 would take the last ever train - 20 wagons and van - out of Oldcastle the next day. TO BE CONTINUED (* The term "450 class" for these abominations in recent years appears to be a gricer term - railwaymen always called them "Castle Class". And no railwayman EVER referred to the 80's as "Thumpers". Dammit, do they LOOK narrow gauge?).