jhb171achill

It will say something to the effect "ONLY TO RUN IN PASSENGER TRAINS". For modelling purposes, it is painted the same brown as used on carriages, though without lining. Very pale grey (white lead) roof, black chassis and drawgear. The tiny lettering and "M G W R" will probably be pale yellow.

BTB, you were asking about your pic of the A class above - the makers have put it the wrong way round. Easily remedied with transfers!

They were never, ever white on anything other than wagons, nor were the lining bits white. CIE used a transfer, and they were all as the logo thing I use on the left hand side of what you're reading - that's a real one, which is currently in Enniskillen Railway Museum. There's one in the Malahide model museum too, which will eventually be displayed on the wall somewhere. The transfers were light green ("eau-de-nil"), lined in gold. although I am aware of at least one coach on the West Cork system that had them painted. Other than the exceptions mentioned above, they always faced the way you can see on the left. In later days, especially on old stock about to be withdrawn, paintwork and transfers became worn and weathered. The Cavan & Leitrim in particular, due to the GSR's short sight economy in demolishing every carriage shelter on the system, ended its days with rolling stock in an absolutely disgraceful state of filth and tattiness. On stock as neglected as this, lining and / or "flying snails" often got so badly weathered and faded that it looked whitish; the emulsions in some colour transparencies of the day are not kind to green shades after decades in storage, so colour slides nowadays are impaired. I have seen some among Cyril Fry's slides where's a green B101 appears to be in shades of pink and purple. When CIE tok over from the GSR in 1945, "snails" on wagons were even painted light green, but this reverted to cream/white in the 1950s. You mention a "narrow gauge forum" - is there much Irish stuff on it? As per the little logo to the left of this, always, on all diesel locos. Opposite way to this ONLY on ONE (drivers) side of the following: - Road vehicles (buses & trucks) - tender of steam engine I like your description as a "cannon"! Using that analogy, on all diesels, carriages and wagons, cannon points left, without any exceptions! Buses, trucks and steam tends, it points right ONLY on driver's side!

The "bible" (McMahon & Clements) makes a mention of use in or around Dublin also. Occasionally, they appear to have also made rare appearances on passenger trains in West Cork. But of course, the Cork city area does seem to have been their main home. Attractive little things, I thought.....

True, but I hadn't mentioned a G2.....!

ANOTHER interesting Midland brake vehicle! In addition to today’s “from the catacombs” photo of a GSWR tank loco in Cork, here’s the branch train at Loughrea in the 1938. Loco, first class coach, third (ex-second).... so what exactly is that yoke on the rear?

102 was a J15. This is 201, of the 201 class. Ten were built between 1887 and 1901 as shunting engines, designed by Ivatt. They all lasted to the late 1950s, so are suitable as models to mix and mingle with A, C, E401, D, G601 and B101 class diesels, as well as laminate coaches and AEC railcars, among other things. While this pic was taken in 1939, 201 was the last to survive, still working in Cork until withdrawal in 1963.

They look very realistic.

Goods transfer between Glanmire Road and Albert Quay, 1939.

I would recommend joining the IRRS anyway, Victor, even before you come to Ireland. Several issues a year of their "Journal" which contains records of what is "current affairs" on the railways, going back to when the Society was founded over seventy years ago. It also contains historical articles and features. The Society published a few books of its own - picture albums - some years ago. One featured the MGWR. I have a copy I could lend you, but I'd need it back eventually. It is possible they might have a copy if you contact them via their website. Other writings on the Midland would be "Midland Great Western Railway" by W E (Ernie) Shepherd and the late Padraig O Cuimín's "The Baronial Lines of the MGWR" which is about the Ballinrobe and Loughrea branches. When he wrote it, the Loughrea line was still open, though not for much longer, but he brings it up to date - and a re-write of this book will be forthcoming in a couple of years which will bring it up to closure and beyond. If I may mention the thing I did on the Achill branch, "Rails to Achill", and "Rails Through Connemara" which is now with the publisher - it was due to hit the shelves sometime between now and June, but the virus has stymied that.... it'll be out when it's out! Many articles in the IRRS deal with matters Midland, and in order to fully understand their locomotives, an absolute must, albeit not a cheap one, is "Locomotives of the GSR", the definitive "bible" of GSR / CIE steam locomotives, by Michael McMahon and Jeremy Clements.

In the first pic, the left hand one is of late GSR, or more probably early CIE origin. The one on the right, the inside frame one (brown) is one is a series built at Inchicore in the mid 1930s and designed by jhbSeniorx2. Examples of these were still in traffic into the 1970s. I had a chance of getting one at one stage, but I had nowhere to put it! Pics 2 & 3 are standard CIE "H" vans built in the late 1950s. In pic 3, the one on the right is an early '60s "palvan", as are the two in the next pic. In the last pic, it's two ex-GNR vans, dating from 1954 - very much the GNR equivalent of CIEs H vans, and mostly built for Drogheda cement traffic, but widely used everywhere.

A few goods vans in various places, 1976-9.

My understating is that the train loco of the goods did the shunting. So a G2 or J18 would be just right! As others suggest, a good start for 21mm DCC, or "0" scale, without mortgage-level expense. I often thought that Fintona would be another such - possibly on the basis that it's a few years later and the passenger train is a single-unit railcar to Omagh, like the old Gardner (was it 101?) which ended its days on Derry - Strabane locals.... if the INW had made it to 1967, you've a CIE 141 or a "C" coming in to shunt, or a "Jeep" or 00 Works "UG"...... Dream on, jhb171.......

Regarding the green for the MGWR brake vans, no certain info seems to have survived as to the shade, however, I recall being told - possibly by Bob Clements but I do not remember - that it was a "mid" green, so the model above would be certainly good enough for me. I have today been able to date that picture of the MGWR van above. It was taken in 1939, by which time it STILL hasn't been repainted in GSR markings. This means that it has not seen a paintbrush for at least fifteen years. Despite that, apart from some obvious signs of peeling, it appears to be in pretty good condition, leading me to think it was probably repainted last just as the Midland was becoming the GSR. This, also, would explain the lack of company markings. Mind you, to be obsessively pedantic, it still doesn't explain why "No." is in front of the number - this was not a normal MGWR trait. The green colour on guard's vans is believed to have not survived "austerity" and other livery changes in 1918, so it is probable, or at any rate possible, that it is grey. I'm just thinking I'll put that pic in the Clifden book... will ping it to the publisher now, and he will silently curse me for upsetting the page layout......!

Very much so. I my Achill book, there's a picture of a DSER wagon at Achill, and I saw some pics in West Cork recently showing two GNR vans in an up goods train from Bantry or Skibbereen heading towards Cork. You don't get any further away from the GNR than that!

Midland Great Western Van No. 19, photographed by Senior in 1939. Location unknown. I am puzzled a bit - presumably there’s an “M” after the number by this stage? It can’t be seen, though, and the thing carries neither “G S” nor “M G W R”. I am assuming it’s in Midland markings, as there was no “No.” in front of a number on a GSR-marked vehicle. Then again, the MGWR didn’t either! At first I thought it was an SLNCR vehicle, but for that line one would expect the number on the end too, and “SLNC” on the side. And you can see the cast-iron MGWR number plate, though even THAT is not typical!

Looks interesting indeed, Edo!

A veritable treasure chest indeed!

The Alphagraphix stuff does make a nice low-cost option, and contains many unusual prototypes, as well as things that aren't otherwise available much. However, beware of liveries - many are inaccurate, some considerably so! Not knocking it though, as I say some nice stuff. Probably the solitary company left on the entire planet that does EVERYTHING by "snail mail" and has no website or email address!

Yes, very much so. In terms of fonts, the lettering "M G W R" tended to be one plank high - a good bit smaller than railway company's initials on many British lines, or one the GNR or GSR here. Sometimes it was "M G W", which on a van or wagon with an opening middle door or gate involved " G" on the left, and "W" and the wagon number on the right, e.g. "M G W 3451". Other times, "M G W R" was all on the left, with the wagon number on the right. Some goods brake vans seem, at some stage anyway, and probably in your era, to have been a mid green of some sort, but I have yet to establish details. Lettering on one photo at least that I've seen appears to be in black, implying a light shade. Mind you, other vans were clearly grey, so I would tend to stick with that. The font was plain - pics in books will show this.

Hello Victor, and welcome to here - you will find much help with every aspect of Irish railway matters here. Regarding the above, for the period you have chosen, yes, station colour scheme was as you say. Goods stock lettering was a pale cream colour too. In the period you have chosen, goods stock was a very dark grey, bordering on "weathered-black" looking when old and tatty, but cleaner when newer. After probably about 1910-1915 it was a more "wagon grey" colour; LMS wagon grey is a good standard for this, and indeed for most Irish railway companies prior to 1960, when a somewhat lighter shade appeared. Locomotives will be a green colour, perhaps marginally darker than Isle of Man loco green, with carriages painted a mid-to-dark brown, perhaps a slight shade darker than 1950s British fitted wagons. Lining was gold on carriages, black and white on locomotives.

WOW!!! Words fail me! Absolute (and typical) EXCELLENCE personified! Spare J26, MM - you'd need to buy a kit, I would think....

I think the Sligo Leitrim had at least one "road van" type also. Must investigate - I have a pic somewhere. The NCC narrow gauge used them, especially on the erstwhile Ballymena and Larne.

Thank you - if your photos of your layout are anything to go by, I think I will get this stuff - it looks very natural and realistic. That transformer thing - do you attach a plug to it and just plug it in? Is that the way it works?

An absolute beauty, Galteemore!