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I'd love an E421 class but I am not sure how many they would sell. It would be very hard to make a reliable model of a Deutz that would be heavy enough to pull anything, they were so small. Most likely could be a D 301 class which would probably be able to share a chassis with an 08 and had a somewhat similar body. Again I am not sure how well it would sell as all were out of service by the 1970's.

Did they ever get even as far as Heuston or Inchicore? I have never seen a picture of any of them at inchicore but stand to be corrected. I do actually have a memory of them on Rugby specials at Lansdowne road during the 70's when I went to Internationals with my dad.

I though I would bump this thread over six years on as the Park Royals and Hunslets are on the way, leaving only the ICRs and the 800 class outstanding of announced models. Maybe changing the title to 1960's to 1990's might be more appropriate as this is where I believe most peoples interest lies. Laying out my own cards, if it ran on tracks in Ireland in the 1980's then I will buy for my layout, but not to sit on the mantlepiece. I really wish to support the manufacture of Irish railway models but my budget is not unlimited and so will not be buying the ICRs, 800's or Darts. Of Noel's original list only the Park Royals have been announced and almost delivered. In addition project Bulleid has delivered a large range of wagon stock including H vans, Palvans, opens, grain vans,flats and oil tanks. We have also received the Hejan Esso oil tank wagons. IRM have hinted that the next new announcement in October will be a C class which would be very logical and I think would sell very well. it could be produced in a large variety of liveries for both CIE and NIR. Hopefully the mainline Park Royals be produced. After than I think an 80 class could be on the cards as I also think this would sell well. Some of the developement costs should already be covered by the mark 2 range. Next in line would be a BR mk1 GSV. From the mid 70's on, every train of Cravens or Park royals needed a GSV and again the developements costs could be shared if accurascale produce their own range of Mk1s. It looks like the Murphy family are continuing with the production of the mk 3's so hopefully they will come out sometime before I die. Enda's 30 ton printed brake van solves the problem of what to run at the end of a train of Bulleids, maybe IRM will produce a 20 ton van? I think we can ignore the idea of a working model of Dick. After these I am struggling to see what else would sell in sufficient numbers to justify developement costs. Apparently a carriage costs nearly as much as a locomotive to develop and produce, but sells for a fraction of the price. I would love to see a model of a 2400 class buffet car as almost all non AC mainline trains had one in their consists. It would go well with the Cravens and Park Royals but as most trains only had one would it sell well enough to justify production? Would an AEC, railcar set sell well? Yes it could be produced in GNR and CIE versions but could it be sold unpowered as a model of the push pulls? Maybe a full train of GSR coaches to go behind Meadhbh? On the freight side maybe a pallet cement wagon, bogie bulk cement wagon or ammonia tanker as some running gear is already produced. Other alternative would be one of the preserved steam locos to pull the RPSI stock.

Much of the testing in the Lab in inchicore in the 1980's was the analysis of lube oil for diesel engines for all the CIE companies.

Did the Hunslets ever get beyond Lansdowne road or anywhere west or south of Dublin?

Is there anyone in the Dublin or Wexford areas who would like to share an order for Pallet Vans? The wallet is fairly empty at the moment as I have just paid for my Hunslet and Park Royals I fancy a set of pallet vans in brown even though they are outside my modelling era and would like a set of three but with both types of end pressings. My proposal is to share an order for IRM1291 and 1292. I would be happy to go ahead and buy the two sets and then meet the person to transfer over and split the costs. I am not fussy which end type I keep two of. If anyone is interested please send me a PM

Last nights IRRS film show had a clip from Joe St Leger showing a tar train going from Mallow to Quartertown

Almost another year has gone by since my last post. We finished doing up the new house in June but it took another few months to clear out all the “stuff” that was stored in the railway room. I finally got possession in September, installed lighting and sockets and then got started on the benchwork. This is a rough sketch of the track plan. After a lot of thought I had a pretty clear idea of what I wanted to achieve. The new layout is similar operationally to the old layout but in twice the space. The available space is approximately 15’ X 11’. The baseboard is built around the walls with a peninsula up the middle. There is a lift out section in front of the door. Trains will leave north staging (Dublin) and arrive first at the junction (Ross Junction) where there is a trailing connection to the branch terminus (Drinagh). The junction has two through platforms and a bay platform with run around for the branch passenger. There will also be a siding for sundries, cement and fertilizer. I also hope to fit in a siding or two in for a bulk cement silo. Drinagh will have a siding for sundries, cement and fertilizer and a private set of sidings with runaround for dolomite, magnesite and oil. In the future I will probably operate this with a private owner shunting loco. The position of the magnesite plant( in practice a Walthers grain silo), is designed to distract from where the main line comes out from behind the backscene. Heading south the main line leaves the junction and goes into a tunnel and around a curve. Emerging from the tunnel there is a trailing connection to a dolomite ore quarry cut into the hillside with two sidings. The line then crosses over a wide slow flowing river and around a curve into the yard of the main terminus station (Belview standing in for Waterford). From here to the main passenger station the line is double track with a crossover halfway along. On the up side is a three track container or marshalling yard with a headshunt and a short siding for palletized traffic. On the down side is an oil siding and connection to the two track loco shed and turntable. Also on the up side the line to Belview quay branches off curving around to go under a bridge and into south staging. At the passenger station the main arrival and departure tracks go through the backscene to the far corner. And will be long enough for full length passenger trains. A bay platform is for shorter trains and also doubles up as a continuous run. There will be nine tracks in the staging yard, three for south staging, four for north staging and two tracks in the middle that can be used for either. As these tracks form a reversing loop they will be isolated for reversal of polarity. There will also be a programming track in the yard. The main baseboard is all one level apart from one short dipped section for the bridge. The main track baseboard is 12mm ply. Baseboard height is 1400mm and the 2 x 2 supports finish 300 mm above this to which 300mm x 6mm MDF is fixed for the backscene. Much of the plywood and 2 x 1 PAO has been recycled from the old layout. Baseboard construction is now almost complete and I am now starting on tracklaying.

RIP Paddy Very sad news. Its an understatement to say has left the Irish railway modelling community an enormus legacy. I was modelling american HO because of the quality of UK and "irish" outline models available at the time. Then Paddy brought out the 141/181s and the rest is history. Condolences to his family.

@Mayner You didn't mention that the GNR AEC railcars were almost identical to the CIE ones and some of these were painted in UTA and NIR liveries. Also many of the park royals were wired to run as intermediate coaches, The main missing coach would be a 26xx buffet car which ran on most railcar or loco hauled services from the 50's to the 80's but I'd say there's very little chance of one of them being produced. On balance I think you are right about the more popular appeal of the 80 Class over the AEC railcars as a lot more people are still around who remember them. I still think a C class or a GSV or both would outsell an 80 class. All of Murphy Models effort seems to be concentrated on the DART+ at the moment so it would be interesting if IRM were to leapfrog them and produce their own range which would have the advantage of crossover with the much larger UK market.

It's good to hear that IRM are not going to give up on the Irish market. Yes prices have gone up but I don't see that as the most important issue. I really don't want to be negative and am possibly straying into the area of business decision making but I think IRM may have chosen to produce models of the wrong prototypes and that this could be a factor in the current fall off in sales. The Hunslets are very nice but only three were built, they didn't last long and as far as I know never went south or west of Dublin, but at least there are matching coaches and wagons for them to haul. The 800's never left the Cork line (maybe one got to Limerick once?) were out of service by the early fifties apart from hauling a few Bullied open wagons around Thurles. There's nothing else RTR available that they ever hauled, certainly no matching coaches. The ICR's are iconic, if you want to model the current tramway that is Iarnrod Eireann they're perfect. All three are beautiful models and are for sale at very reasonable prices, so if you want a model to leave in the box, put on a shelf or run occasionally on a layout they are perfect. I do hope they sell well, but is an individual likely to buy more than one or two unless they are a collector? The A Class sold out very quickly and I would imagine thay very few customers bought only one. It looks like all the wagon and coaching stock produced so far have sold well, apart from the magnesite wagons which had to be heavily discounted to shift. Obviously an individual will buy more than one coach or wagon and the discount for multiple purchases is an incentive. On a more positive note the following are prototypes that I think would sell in multiple quantities that would provide a return on investment. The C class were long lived, went everywhere, were owned by both CIE and NIR and there's lots of matching rolling stock for all eras. AEC railcars were owned by CIE, GNR, UTA,and NIR and lasted from the fifties to the eighties (as push-pulls). The Park Royals can be used as intermediates. After 1972 no train of laminates, park royals or cravens would be complete without a GSV. A re-run of the A Class might also be considered. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Further to Fran's post with regard to the production of new Irish models going forward I completly see where he is coming from. I am in a similar situation to Georgeconna in that my shelves are full with multiple copies of almost everything that has come out so far form both IRM and Saint Patrick. I do hope to get the new layout operational in the next few months and actually use them for the purpose for which they were intended. I never in my wildest dreams though that I would be able to aquire the collection of such beautiful models that I have. I am pretty sure I am probably your typical customer. In my sixties, empty nester either retired or close to retirement, with some spare cash to spend on a hobby. I was given a train set as a kid and grew up travelling on a railway that ran an enormous variety of rolling stock. BUT Even I am close to saturation point. I still have the Park Royals, Hunslet and Palvans to come but I will be taking a pass on the ICRs, Dart and 800's. I'd love a few C classes, Mk3's and GSV's and I do think that these would be financially viable. So I live in hope but perfectly understand if they don't appear anytime soon or at all. I am so happy with what I have. The other thing to consider is that our generation is dying off and a large quantity of high quality boxed second hand models are likely to become available over the next few years. It is hard to see where new customers are going to come from as none of my kids generation have any interest in model trains. I am working on the next generation through Thomas the Tank Engine and my own layout which might give some hope for the future.

Bear in mind that by 1973 the transplant program was almost if not fully complete and A and C class reliability had gone through the roof. One of the main reasons for so many pilot workings was to cover for A and C class breakdowns.

I have great memories of north wall transfer freights heading up the bank passing the then IRRS premises in Dromcondra in the early 70's. On Wednesday Library nights you knew by sound if a 101 class was either in the lead or banking. The sound of the Sulzer engine working hard was so different to anything else running at the time. Also I heard them more than saw them as there were no windows looking out on the track. If you wanted to look out you had to open the emergency exit. So yes I am well into my sixties!

Sorry Fran I feel exactly the same. I have ordered one Hunslet with sound but I can't justify either an 800 class or ICR as I want my models to operate on my 1980's layout, not sit on a shelf. I too will order at least four C class locos when they eventually appear.

Could it have been a special train to the Irish college in Ring? The bogie van would have been used for carrying bicycles? The genset in the 3200 van would have supplied power for train lighting. I travelled on a similar type but longer Irish College special from Westland Row to Galway in the summer of 1972 and my bicycle travelled with me on the same train in a bogie van.

Wow This is a new one on me. Never heard this before. Were they used anywhere else? You would need a decent sized genset to heat a carriage. I always thought that the first electrically heated coaches were the mk2s, apart from the Laminates fitted with storage heaters for the Loughrea branch. In the 1970's the bogie steam heating vans, the 3200 brake standards and the push pull railcar conversions were all fitted with either a lister or italian genset but only for trainlighting. Heating was always by steam from oil fired boilers. The Italian ones fitted to the push pulls had a tendency to self combust and extensive fire proofing was added in the 80's just to keep a few sets running. Also in the 1980s there was a discussion about converting the Cravens to electric heating but it didn't proceed.

If my memory serves me right in the 1980's, the standard CIE cast iron chair had 4 holes but was usually only held in place with two bolts, one either side of the rail. Sleepers used to rot where the bolt went through the sleeper and at the triangular nut underneath. The linesman would see the loose chair and could drill the sleeper through one of the spare holes, insert a new bolt and nut underneath the sleeper and resecure the chair to the sleeper.

Wow! I worked there in the 1980's and it brought it all back.

Speaking to Fran yesterday in Wexford he did hint that both a break van and a mk1 GSV were in the pipeline but neither were imminent.

When did they start painting them brown? I think that I remember a lot of gray wagons still around the the 1970's

Planning for the new layout has been based on the following seven principles espoused by an American track planner called Bill Beranek. Walk Along Mainlines Narrow Shelves Long Mainline or Branch-line Runs Trains Traveling Through Scenes Once View Blocking Peninsulas Staging Yards (both hidden & open) Prototypical Operations It’s worth watching him on YouTube, you will learn a lot. On this layout the emphasis will be on operations more than scenery but I do hope to gradually add scenery over time. The basic shape of the new layout will be around the walls with a peninsula up the middle, similar to the old layout but in a space twice the size. This gives five straight sections for stations or scenes. The new layout would have space for a helix or a turnaround at the end of the peninsula if I want to incorporate one. I didn’t have the space for this on the last layout. My first idea was to put a helix at end of peninsula to get the track down to staging around the walls under layout. It would even have been possible to both go up and down with the helix and add a complete upper deck to the layout and making it double the size. Advantages All five sections can be used as senic areas, maximum possible mainline run, trains can be reversed when staged, very easy to add extra staging tracks, possible to build a double deck layout. Disadvantages Complicated benchwork, lot of hidden trackwork , time taken to travel up and down the helix during operating sessions. I decided early on that a double deck layout is not for me as neither deck is at the optimum height and that the disadvantages of the helix outweigh the advantages. My next thought was no helix but putting staging around the outside of the layout behind a view block backscene. Advantages Almost as much senic area and mainline run as option 1 Easy to incorporate a junction with a branch through the backscene Disadvantages Access to staging, viewing stock in staging, height of backscene, no reverse without shunting in staging. Again I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages so the next option would be to use one of the straight areas as double ended open staging Advantages Simple benchwork, easy access to staging Disadvantages Shorter mainline, no reverse loop, tight radius on turnaround at end of peninsula, difficult to incorporate a branch line. This is closer to what I would like but my next idea was to do away with the turnaround at the end of the peninsula and put open staging on one side of the peninsula with the branch terminus on the other side. The main line would run out of staging go around the room and back into staging Advantages Simple benchwork, easy access to staging, possible to interconnect north and south staging and run trains in one direction around the layout, possible to have a triangular junction, branch line included, possible to have a continuous run. Disadvantages Shorter mainline, only four scenic areas This is actually very similar to the concept of the old layout. It is the way I plan to proceed and am working on a track plan, so more to follow.

Photography was never my strongpoint. Even now I am terrible at composing a subject. At the time I had a cheap AGFA camera and took awful photographs in black and white which I developed myself. I much preferred to wander around, observe and store memories. The photos in the IIRS archive or in Rails in Kerry are way better that any I took. But on the subject of memories there was plenty of time to wander around and no restrictions on going anywhere. The loco was a 141 class, and after we arrived in Fenit the driver uncoupled from the train and drove it up the line and parked it in the cutting outside the station. He left it idling there unoccupied all afternoon. There was a very sad end to the day in that on the way back to Cork that evening the train crashed into a vanload of travellers at an accomidation crossing and several were killed.

I was on that tour in 1972 and if I remember rightly the turntable was still working. I also visited the branch a year or two later on a local when the Cork- Tralee train was extended to Fenit on summer Sundays.

Its hard to believe that its over a year since my last post. What a year it has been. I got the layout to the stage where all the track was laid and fully operational. I did spent a lot of time running trains for the grandkids and am hopeful the the hobby might not be lost on future generations. I had a dress rehersal for a full operating session and then life intervened. The two of us were rattling around a large house that was impossible to heat, using perhaps a third of the living space so we made the momentus decision to downsize and sell the house after 32 happy years there. I had to dismantle the railway, pack it all up and put it into storage in my daughters attic. We were very lucky, we got a good price for the house and found another close by that meets our needs, a key one being space in the garden for a timber room for my model railway version 2.1. The selling and buying took six months and then after moving in in December we made the decision to completly refurbish the new house and so are currently homeless but actually are lucky to be able to stay in any of our three kids houses, the one condition being that we help look after the grandkids. While I haven't posted very often this site has been a constant in my life keeping me in touch with the hobby over the last year. I really appreciate what everyone contributes and IRM for running an add free service. I have a great team of Romanians working on the house but have assumed for myself the role of clients representative, resident engineer , assistant plumber, assistant electrian, assistant dogsbody. The result being no time for modelling. We hope to move back in around Easter. Below is a picture of the timber room that I was allowed purchase. Its nominally 16 x 12 in old money, about 15'8" a 11'8" internally, fuly lined and insulated. It is currently being used for storing our furniture so I hope to have vacent possession in a couple of months. I am currently designing version 2.1 of the layout so more to follow.