Making the best of a space...suggestions ?

[aramand]

Hi,

 

So my original space for my layout is no longer available as when we converted the attic it was deemed too nice to 'mess up' with trains! So, I'm banished to what was once a bedroom!

 

However, I'm having trouble deciding what the best option is in terms of building the baseboard shape - the room is 9ft x 8.5ft so not massive and you have to take account that there is a door opening into it. The 2 options I can think of are basically a rectangular layout of maybe 9ft x 6.5ft with a hole in the middle so I can access the back portion - something like this :

 

 

 

or else go for an 'L-Shape' with a loop at one end and maybe long platform at the other, something like this :

 

 

 

Ideally I'd like to have 2 full loops as large as possible and maybe add in a little elevation but I dont think I have enough space, originally I wanted a 'U-Shape' but the space is just not big enough to get the curves in to complete the loops

 

I'm tending towards the 'L-shape' at the moment but not sure, the loop looks very small and uninteresting. I'm having terrible trouble visualising it !

 

Any suggestions welcome - anyone have a similar size layout where you could offer advice...

 

Thanks,

Declan.

[Robert Davies]

I'm not much liking the second plan.

 

Say you have a three coach plus the engine train in the terminus station, when it leaves and goes out into the loop, it reach almost halfway around the circle and look a bit daft doing it - finally to get back into the terminus you'll need to do a 'Killarney' and reverse back in.

 

The first plan is much better, with trains getting room to go 'somewhere'. Further, you could make use of elevation changes to 'hide' the fact that a couple of the stations are very close together.

 

-Rob

[irishthump]

Have agree with Robert on this one, that second plan looks very "train-set!"

 

My priority would be to make the double loop as long as possible. So providing the room is just for your layout, I would build the loop around the outside of walls. If you did this you could make each basboard up to 2 feet wide if you wanted to and still have a large operating well in the middle. You can build in a lift-up or removable section for the door to open, or alter the door to open outwards.If you can get away with it you could even remove the door altogether! (don't laugh)

[aramand]

finally to get back into the terminus you'll need to do a 'Killarney' and reverse back in.

 

 

This is one major drawback of that type of design alright but I was thinking last night if it would be possible to have an underground section from the main station to join up with the opposite side of the loop but of course that introduces the whole complexity of a reverse loop and not sure how easy that would work...

[aramand]

Have agree with Robert on this one, that second plan looks very "train-set!"

 

My priority would be to make the double loop as long as possible. So providing the room is just for your layout, I would build the loop around the outside of walls. If you did this you could make each basboard up to 2 feet wide if you wanted to and still have a large operating well in the middle. You can build in a lift-up or removable section for the door to open, or alter the door to open outwards.If you can get away with it you could even remove the door altogether! (don't laugh)

 

The room will be dedicated to the layout so that least that is one good point!

 

Dont think it will be possible to change to the door to open out just based on the current layout of the landing, I did think about having a removable section of track but again not sure how easy that will be be and it complicated by the fact that the door is pretty much in the corner of the room so it would have to be a removable corner of track for it to work....nothing is ever simple :-)

[irishthump]

The room will be dedicated to the layout so that least that is one good point!

 

Dont think it will be possible to change to the door to open out just based on the current layout of the landing, I did think about having a removable section of track but again not sure how easy that will be be and it complicated by the fact that the door is pretty much in the corner of the room so it would have to be a removable corner of track for it to work....nothing is ever simple :-)

 

Ah, sorry! I assumed the door would be in the middle of the wall, my mistake! It's still not as hard as you might think to build a removable section in the corner.

[Glenderg]

I'm not liking either plan because the first one is "all things to all people" - 4 stations, gradients, the whole shebang. The second one is essentially a hornby track plan with a bit sticking on to it. Might I suggest a third strategy, and feel free to tell me to sod off.

 

Use the entire 9 x 8.5 ft space, (you are the injured party) keep an operating well in the middle, keep a double line running loop to the outside of the plan to watch the trains go by. Pick two locations and make one a station with a fake branch line to have two platforms, and dmu/cravens for local services. Make the other location on the opposite side of the board for freight/oil/ballast/beet or passenger stock maintenance/storage - whatever suits. The bits in between to be roads, wooded areas and village/town scenes.

 

The lift out portion can be a piece of ply or a suspension bridge, depending on imagination.

 

I'll do up a sketch of what I'm thinking if you want? Richie.

[aramand]

Excuse my very crude drawing but I guess I could do something like this (I dont have Anyrail at the moment so using MS Paint :-) ) :

 

 

 

i.e. not quite a full rectangle but cut a section out for the door and have the track basically cut the corner out. Whether that section would be liftable or not could be decided or if could be permanent and just have a well in the center.

[aramand]

I'm not liking either plan because the first one is "all things to all people" - 4 stations, gradients, the whole shebang. The second one is essentially a hornby track plan with a bit sticking on to it. Might I suggest a third strategy, and feel free to tell me to sod off.

 

Use the entire 9 x 8.5 ft space, (you are the injured party) keep an operating well in the middle, keep a double line running loop to the outside of the plan to watch the trains go by. Pick two locations and make one a station with a fake branch line to have two platforms, and dmu/cravens for local services. Make the other location on the opposite side of the board for freight/oil/ballast/beet or passenger stock maintenance/storage - whatever suits. The bits in between to be roads, wooded areas and village/town scenes.

 

The lift out portion can be a piece of ply or a suspension bridge, depending on imagination.

 

I'll do up a sketch of what I'm thinking if you want? Richie.

 

That would be great - thanks - my creativity is pretty limited!!

[irishthump]

That sounds great, Glenderg. That's basically the essence of what I was trying describe but you fleshed it out a lot better!

[Broithe]

Is it feasible to reverse the door and have it opening outwards..?

[Glenderg]

lol, great minds though - we posted it at the same time!

[Robert Davies]

....or even a concertina type door?

 

....or a sliding door (outside the room)?

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

feel free to tell me to sod off.

Richie.

 

Sod off. Only joking bud couldn't resist

 

Back to the layout plan some of the nicest layouts only have single or double mainline track. I think looking at the above plans you are heading towards what I call scalextric train sets keep it simple is my advice:o

[aramand]

While I would like to do that I think I'll have to work on the assumption that the door will have to stay as it. The room may need to come back to being a bedroom at some stage and also as part of the attic conversion the whole landing area was redone so I may be killed if I go making significant changes

[aramand]

I think looking at the above plans you are heading towards what I call scalextric train sets keep it simple is my advice:o

 

I agree with you the layout images I quoted where just examples of the general 'shape' (i.e. rectangle or L-shape), main requirement is for a double mainline loop (the bigger the better) and then build around that with a station and whatever else I can fit...

[Broithe]

While I would like to do that I think I'll have to work on the assumption that the door will have to stay as it. The room may need to come back to being a bedroom at some stage and also as part of the attic conversion the whole landing area was redone so I may be killed if I go making significant changes

Infrastructure developments in conservation areas are always difficult...

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

I agree with you the layout images I quoted where just examples of the general 'shape' (i.e. rectangle or L-shape), main requirement is for a double mainline loop (the bigger the better) and then build around that with a station and whatever else I can fit...

 

The thing is don't try and cram everything into it. Your room is 9'x8.5' what you could do is run a 2' wide base board around the room with a lift up trap door like I have in Ballykay http://www.irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/1003-Another-little-corner-of-Ballykay

 

I would then put scenery on half the layout like an L shape and the other half I would leave with no scenery and have my sidings. You could then call a train up run it through the scenery section it then disappears back into the sidings and you call up the next train to run through the scenery section. As I said keep your layout simple if you try to cram every thing in there stations,sidings,buildings,towns,roads etc etc its then going to look toy train like

[irishthump]

The thing is don't try and cram everything into it. Your room is 9'x8.5' what you could do is run a 2' wide base board around the room with a lift up trap door like I have in Ballykay http://www.irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/1003-Another-little-corner-of-Ballykay

 

I knew I had seen a trap door section somewhere on this forum!

I would have to agree with Anto about keeping to a simple 2 track mainline.

[aramand]

Ok, so this is the latest proposal subject to planning permission!

 

 

 

Its all a bit rough and ready and the loops dont join but I'm sure with a bit of time and patience I could work out the correct track pieces and in any case I'm sure with flexitrack that could all be sorted...

 

I'm limited to 50 pieces on the trial version of Anyrail so I cant put in the points or complete the tracks in the station or goods area but I'm sure you get the idea!

 

As always comment or criticism welcome

[Glenderg]

Bang on! What location are you thinking? Urban/rural or a mixture?

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Why not keep it running around the outside of the room and have a lifting draw bridge or lift out section instead of the base board cutting in to let the door open

[aramand]

Bang on! What location are you thinking? Urban/rural or a mixture?

 

It wont be modelling any specific area but will try and go for a mix of urban/rural....

[aramand]

Why not keep it running around the outside of the room and have a lifting draw bridge or lift out section instead of the base board cutting in to let the door open

 

That is certainly an option - I havent decided if I'm going to try and built the baseboard myself or not so I was trying to keep it relatively simple but I guess having a lift out corner piece is no more difficult than a straight piece...

[irishthump]

That is certainly an option - I havent decided if I'm going to try and built the baseboard myself or not so I was trying to keep it relatively simple but I guess having a lift out corner piece is no more difficult than a straight piece...

 

Personally I would build a lift-out curved section for that corner so as to squeeze every last inch out of it!

At 9'x8' you will have a fair sized running loop.

[201bhoy]

Ok, so this is the latest proposal subject to planning permission!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3766[/ATTACH]

 

Its all a bit rough and ready and the loops dont join but I'm sure with a bit of time and patience I could work out the correct track pieces and in any case I'm sure with flexitrack that could all be sorted...

 

I'm limited to 50 pieces on the trial version of Anyrail so I cant put in the points or complete the tracks in the station or goods area but I'm sure you get the idea!

 

As always comment or criticism welcome

 

Nice plan! It's up to you, but if you use peco streamline track you can get a much better "flow" out of the track. Just drag the crosses in the middle of it to get the shape you want! Looks a lot more realistic and less "trainsetty".

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

I suggest using flexi thank and get yourself some of these there a god send http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/index.php?cPath=239_556_565

[The Train Man]

I suggest using flexi thank and get yourself some of these there a god send http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/index.php?cPath=239_556_565

 

€5.99 http://www.themodelshop.ie

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

€5.99 http://www.themodelshop.ie

 

As I said Seamus there a god send when laying flexi track.

[The Train Man]

As I said Seamus there a god send when laying flexi track.

 

They really are !!!

[BosKonay]

Them and peco track spacers - very handy!

[Dave]

Try Scarm software, its free and simple to use http://www.scarm.info Running the baseboards around the room is by far the best option. A lift up bridge at the door is a good idea. Have you considered a multi level layout? You could also run a baseboard diagonally across the room which will allow for a long fiddle yard.

[aramand]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions - will definitely invest in a set of spacers and those tracksetta tools! I'm having enough trouble getting the tracks to join up in my drawings not to mind when I actually get to lay some real ones

 

@Dave by "multi level" do you mean almost 2 different layouts or just putting in some elevation into it ? One thing I was thinking of adding if the space allows is for a third completely separate loop on the outside of the layout that would be used for a Hornby Live Steam - it obviously cant join up with the rest of the layout but would be great for it to just have its own track to run around the outside.

[Dave]

 

 

Having a lower level can double your space, a helix can be used to get trains up and down.

[Glenderg]

Sketch as promised.

 

 

 

Taking your ideas, it would mean that the door is on the lower left hand side. Each grid is approx 750mm or 2'6" (in old money) square. It's not even remotely to scale trackwise, nor is it prototypical, but it's a first draft to give an indication of what's realistic.

 

Track parallel to the baseboard edge always looks odd, and in an irish context, if the track is straight as the crow flies, it's bumpy as hell on the horizontal and vice versa, so never ever have it straight. The slightest curve - say 4 inches, over 4 foot, looks great against 4 foot of dead straight rail.

 

All routes, no matter how mundane, should look natural on their own. If you can avoid small radius points, all the better.

 

I've included a dummy line to the south. It could end in a tunnel going to nowhere, but it's a great spot to pose stock for photos.

 

I've also included a similar line from the freight/goods area that would run around to a lower level fiddle yard, as Dave has proposed. I'm sure the track can be rationalised so it's not a shunting puzzle to get stock up from beneath.

 

The only unnatural curve is the one for the lift out section. Bridges can be unnatural curves too, so consider a mini viaduct as a drop in section. I'm sure someone around here could make an MDF segment that would fit perfectly. Name escapes me though....

 

I'd keep the baseboard width to a maximum of 3 feet, less if you don't like reaching for fallen stock.

Richie.