Steam coming to Waterford

[airfixfan]

See this will require about 250,000 to fund the restoration work and that a fund raising campaign has been launched already.  We shall see from experience  what happens !

[Wexford70]

6 hours ago, airfixfan said:

See this will require about 250,000 to fund the restoration work and that a fund raising campaign has been launched already.  We shall see from experience  what happens !

About the same cost as a new diesel locomotive from my understanding. I assume the amount will be raised from a mixture of sources including corporate sponsorship, grants if any are available, as well as interested individuals like myself. Once it is in operation, the loco should also contribute to its own upkeep. Is this not how all heritage railways work?

[Georgeconna]

31 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

About the same cost as a new diesel locomotive from my understanding. I assume the amount will be raised from a mixture of sources including corporate sponsorship, grants if any are available, as well as interested individuals like myself. Once it is in operation, the loco should also contribute to its own upkeep. Is this not how all heritage railways work?

If you read Steam Mag you will see endless pleas for Donations for this that and the other. The income for Passengers seems to just about keep their head about water so they will defo need some other income flows.

[airfixfan]

Southwold Railway built a new 3ft gauge 2-4-0T for less than 250k

[Killian Keane]

4 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Southwold Railway built a new 3ft gauge 2-4-0T for less than 250k

Which, incidentally, they don't seem to have steamed since its initial delivery nearly 2 years ago, but that hasn't deterred them wanting another already;

 

[Mayner]

The Waterford and Suir Valley is an interesting one, a Community Enterprise that has operated a commercially successful Tourist Railway beneath the radar of the enthusiast community for over 20 years. 

The railway appears to have been promoted as a tourist attraction by local interests and operated using funding through a combination of Community Employment Schemes, Grants and low interest loans. The operation is said to be self funding with drivers working on a volunteer basis.

The railway only appears to have come under the enthusiast radar following the news that it was considering acquiring a steam loco.

Current passenger no's 30K annually is high by the standard of similar lines in the UK and having managed to successfully establish a 10km operating narrow gauge passenger railway on the site since 2001 the company has a proven capability to raise the funds required to restore Kettering Furnaces No 3.  The company has demonstrated a realistic approach to the project by having the loco inspected and overhauled in an established workshop in the UK, rather than attempting to start from scratch in Ireland.

In my experience fare revenue running  trains using volunteer crews on short (up to 5 miles) generally covers operating (fuel and lubricants) and running maintenance costs.  The actual profit is made in the cafe and souvenir shop not running trains.

During the 80s several short preserved/tourist railways discovered that customers spent more the longer they remained on site, leading to including a behind the scenes "Guided Shed or Museum Tour" in the fare, and building souvenir shops and cafes capable of serving cooked meals. The Welsh Highland Heritage Railway in Portmadoc extended to concept to provide unlimited travel on the train a family with small children potentially spending most of the day on the railway (and more money).

The WSVR seem to be taking similar steps providing a cafe at Kilmeadan to attract business from passengers, walkers/cyclist and casuals. 

Generally loco acquisition, restoration and overhaul on preserved lines in the UK is funded directly by the loco owners, through donations and bequests.  Of the WHHR fleet of operating steam locos Hunslet 2-6-2T Russell is owned by the company its recent over £100k overhaul funded by member and public donations to a Russell Fund, 0-4-2T Bagnall Gelert (works the majority of trains, smaller and cheaper to run) is owned by the Bagnall 3050 Group that funded its 1992 restoration and recently a new boiler from their own resources. 

Baldwin 590 4-6-0PT was part funded as a result of a substantial bequest following the death of a member. The restoration was carried out over a considerable period off site in established steam workshops. The bequest also part funded the construction of a replica vintage train..

The collaboration with Rheilffordd Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake Railway) in marketing is interesting, the Bala Lake is another example of a narrow gauge Tourist Railway built on an abandoned standard gauge trackbed, originally operated with new  purpose built 'modern image" diesel hauled trains, the railway has become more vintage and narrow gauge in nature adding a large collection of Quarry Hunslet locos. More significantly the Bala Lake has struggled for many years (to re-open the line to Bala town but appears to have recently made progress.

In short restoring a steam loco or re-opening to Redmond Bridge can involve a lot of time over 10+ years and a lot of money but is achievable with local community buy in and committment.

 

[airfixfan]

12 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

Which, incidentally, they don't seem to have steamed since its initial delivery nearly 2 years ago, but that hasn't deterred them wanting another already;

 

The point I was making is that a small group with no operational Railway was able to raise funds for a new loco with money from enthusiasts for their future plans with less problems than a similar scheme would face in Ireland.

[minister_for_hardship]

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Waterford and Suir Valley is an interesting one, a Community Enterprise that has operated a commercially successful Tourist Railway beneath the radar of the enthusiast community for over 20 years. 

The railway only appears to have come under the enthusiast radar following the news that it was considering acquiring a steam loco.

 

 

I think it's regarded in some quarters as a glorified fairground ride, but it does have to conform to the fairly serious rail safety regulations just like the 'real' railway.

Personally, as it has no old interesting (to me) stock or recreate an atmosphere like the olden days I'd only have marginal interest in it. Likewise I'd gravitate towards a NYMR or a SVR before I'd visit a line with industrial loco haulage, that's not to denigrate the hard work put in by the people involved that's just my preference.

To be fair, the WSVR doesn't appear to suffer from the one man band nature of much of Irish Preservation, ie what happens when that one man isn't around to manage things anymore, and the tendency for disaffection: volunteers leaving and/or picking up their ball and going home.

Edited February 17 by minister_for_hardship

[minister_for_hardship]

2 hours ago, airfixfan said:

The point I was making is that a small group with no operational Railway was able to raise funds for a new loco with money from enthusiasts for their future plans with less problems than a similar scheme would face in Ireland.

Again, they have the interest in the uk to see these things realised, we don't.

[LNERW1]

On 30/1/2024 at 10:41 PM, Metrovik said:

Seems to be rather the edgy talking point amongst British enthusiasts on Facebook who view Waterford as a Tourist railway rather than a heritage one, The main complaint that seems to have been made is that the engine is in as withdrawn condition and should stay in a museum, ideally in Britain. Should probably tread carefully around this one.... I'm all for having steam in Waterford but at the same time I'm trying to decide if this is the right route......

They’ve no right to be complaining- they stole one of our 1949 BnM Barclays and turned it into the Tallyllyn’s Tom Rolt!

[Mayner]

On 17/2/2024 at 9:13 PM, airfixfan said:

The point I was making is that a small group with no operational Railway was able to raise funds for a new loco with money from enthusiasts for their future plans with less problems than a similar scheme would face in Ireland.

Several of the  UK Tourist/Heritage Railways faced seemingly insurmountable obstacles but succeeded by taking a long game approach as a result of a combination of sheer determination and resilience.

1. The Festiniog took nearly 30 years to achieve its goal of re-opening its line to Bleanau Festiniog after the Central Electricity Generating Board put a Cumpulsory Order  top end of the line  for a Pumped Storage Hydro scheme during the early 50s. The Festiniog took a two pronged approach approach fighting the CEGB through the courts and building the 4km "Deviation" above the flooded section of the original route and Festiniog Power Station.  The Festiniog was eventually awarded damages for loss of income as a result of the Hydro scheme, the Deviation was largely built by Volunteer Labour.

2. Both the Severn Valley and Kent and East Sussex faced apparently insurmountable obstacles in early days as a result to Ministry of Transport objections to the re-openings conflicted with roading schemes. Severn Valley conflicted with Bridgenorth Bypass railway required to pay cost of providing a bridge over new road, Ministry of Transport objections to level crossings over A Roads delayed opening of KESR by several years.

3. The WHR 64 Company ordered a new boiler its flagship loco Russell in order to maintain a sense of direction after initial attempts to acquire the trackbed of the line were thwarted as a result of bureaucracy, Russell was eventually restored to working order in 1987 approx. 20 years after 1st ordering the new boiler. 

The business was re-titled the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway and re-focused on the heritage aspects of the original WHR during the mid 90s after loosing its battle for control of the WHR trackbed and rebuild the line. The WHHR has since become an 'accredited museum" with a purpose built museum building restored Russell to its original as delivered 1906 condition,  and restored a WW1 Baldwin loco similar to that which ran on the line during the 1920s and 30s  and built a "Heritage Train" of late 19th Century carriages funded largely through donations and a bequest.

In contrast operations like Downpatrick, Moyasta, Dromad and the WSVR have achieved a lot in a relatively short time and its quite possible that some may survive given a similar determination to their UK peers.

There was an old saying on the WHHR that members, officers and volunteers come and go but the railway society continues to survive.