1960s and 1970s Containers in Ireland - Contemporary Scans from Jane's Freight Containers

[Mol_PMB]

I've long been interested in intermodal traffic and containers, particularly the early years of the ISO container in the 1960s and early 1970s. I have a fair bit of literature on the subject including several early editions of 'Jane's Freight Containers.'

I know there are a few others on the forum that are interested in this sort of thing like @leslie10646 and @DJ Dangerous , so I thought I'd do a few scans which are relevant to the Irish scene, and post them in this thread. Hopefully they will provoke some discussion.

I'll start with some scans from the 1968-69 edition which was the first one published. At this early stage there were many small operations with one or two ships service a wide variety of Irish Sea routes, including some that seem quite surprising from today's viewpoint. Even in the 1960s, some of these were starting to merge or collaborate.

Firstly, some adverts:

Next, the 'Eire' section, as it was called back then:

And now some information on the container ports in Northern Ireland:

 

Still from 1968, some data on selected GB mainland ports which served Ireland, plus the Freightliner network of the time:

[Mol_PMB]

Finally from 1968, details of the shipping lines that carried container traffic to and from Ireland. Some of these will be more familiar than others.

 

This view of the ship 'Rolf' in 1969 shows what many of these Irish Sea intermodal vessels were like at the time. Small coasters adapted to carry a few containers, and in this case although there are a few ISO boxes it's mostly older container types and Lancashire Flats. In this photo the vessel is being operated by B+I and is carrying containers or flats belonging to CIE, Irish Ferryways, Containerway, Roadferry and others.

(scanned from the book 'Looking back at Containerships' by Andrew Wiltshire, and the photo credited to Danny Lynch)

[Mol_PMB]

I don't have the second edition of Jane's, but I do have the thired, 1970-71 edition. By this time, the Irish entry had developed from 1.5 pages to 6, with more ports getting in on the act.

CIE was also making more of its container services and featured a hard-hitting full page advert too.

While there are plenty of ISO containers in the photos, there are also older types and some earlier livery schemes from B+I and Ulster Ferry visible. The photo at Tivoli shows a Greenore Ferry Service container being lifted.

Note that Manchester Liners (a personal favourite of mine) gets a mention in Dublin, their containers certainly ended up on CIE liner trains.

 

More to come...

 

[Mol_PMB]

Meanwhile, north of the border Belfast has appeared in a big way, with a long list of services to the GB mainland and further afield.

I won't repeat a lot of the ports information which didn't change so much, but Warrenpoint appears in the list with a service to Garston, and the entry for Garston shows some of the Irish Sea Ferries and Cawoods operations.

Of course, those containers arriving in Northern Ireland weren't so likely to end up on a train.

 

Bell was being reorganised and growing, note that in 1971 their containers were unpainted aluminium alloy, none of the blue and purple that came later. Some of them just said 'Bell' others 'Bell Line' or 'Bell Ferry'.

Meanwhile B+I was making a big deal of their new Dublin terminal. Note that this includes a listing of their container fleet at the time:

There were still plenty of smaller operators, some examples here:

[LNERW1]

@DJ Dangerous is coming, hide the containers!

On a more serious note though, it is really cool to see such an early part of something as normal now as containers. I see completely why you’d be interested in this.

[Mol_PMB]

I mentioned Cawoods in my previous post. This IRRS Archive photo on Flickr shows Cawoods containers on a train at Dundalk:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510397787

Here's one of the early B+I ISO containers which I photographed at Blackwater BnM last year:

 

One of CIE's pre-ISO containers survives at Dromod C&L and I have several photos of that; I was wondering about a separate thread on them, as I have more Jane's scans to do for this thread.

 

[Mol_PMB]

This drawing in my collection is the painting and lettering diagram for the Bell containers built at BREL Derby in 1973, by which time the familiar Bell livery of purple and blue had been introduced. These were 20'x8'x8'6" steel boxes and the paint specification gives the main colour as Petunia Purple, except a blue panel on each side. So these would have had purple tops.

[Mol_PMB]

I had a look for some more info on Greenore Ferry Services - I think Greenore was the first port in Ireland to handle containers in 1963.

As well as early ISO containers they also handled a lot of Lancashire Flats.

The following are from the Trucknet website which also has some reminiscences about GFS and some of the other small Irish Sea operators: https://www.trucknetuk.com/t/lancashire-flats/202588/2

 

[Mike 84C]

Even the Greenore hgv tractor unit is a bit special. A Dennis Maxim? of all things. Not very common UK. V8 Perkins under the floor I believe.

[Mol_PMB]

10 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Even the Greenore hgv tractor unit is a bit special. A Dennis Maxim? of all things. Not very common UK. V8 Perkins under the floor I believe.

Interesting, thanks. They had more than one of them; I confess this is an awful photo:

 

[Mol_PMB]

So for Christmas Day I've scanned some of the Irish pages from the 1972-73 edition of Jane's.

The Irish section is now headed 'Republic of Ireland', and now runs to 6 pages with some interesting information and some better photos.

Here's a zoom in of the two photos at Cork, showing several variants of B+I container, and a Greenore Ferry Services box labelled GREENORE-PRESTON-SHARPNESS:

Pages 2 and 3 focus on Dublin with plenty of detail of the shipping routes and companies, and the volume of containers handled. Some of these would have ended up on trains, of course.

Zooming in on that last photo, most of the boxes here are pre-ISO, non-stackable types. There are several 'ULSTER FERRY' and in the foreground an old 'B&I LINE DUBLIN-LIVERPOOL':

Page 4 covers New Ross and Waterford:

Here's a closer look at Bell's Frank Cassin Wharf:

Pages 5 and 6 are perhaps of most interest to us, covering CIE. Page 5 lists some of the liner services and notes that CIE carries containers for other companies including B&I, Bell, BR, B&L, Guinness etc. The container train shown is carrying several leased containers from CTI, who were the largest international container leasing firm at the time:

Page 6 gives us a fleet listing for CIE's containers. At this date (1972) the ISO fleet was all 20'x8'x8'; the introduction of taller, longer and shorter CIE boxes had not yet occurred. Note also the non-ISO containers including the dry cargo boxes 18.9'x7.6'x7.6', and the large number of flats. Intriguingly, the grain hopper containers are illustrated but not listed.

 

[Mol_PMB]

Irish Ferryways were still significant at this time; their advert showed a slightly different view of one of their typical 30' containers - although physically ISO-compatible it doesn't have ISO-standard numbering and lettering:

There are three entries for Irish Ferryways in the directory under slightly different names!

Although well-known for their 30' containers, they had other sizes too, and there are certainly some 20' boxes in these views:

 

[Mol_PMB]

Of the major operators, B+I had a detailed entry, which included a container fleet listing:

Here's a closer look at the photo. There were several variants of these early B+I containers; different heights, rib arrangements, and livery/lettering. These appear similar in livery to the one the survives at BnM Blackwater, but they have a different number of ribs:

B+I had also launched a new service in partnership with Holland America Line known as IROPA:

This image posted by @WRENNEIRE elsewhere on the forum shows an IROPA container; there were other styles too.

 

Bell's entry was a bit dull this year, but relevant illustrations occur in the container handling and equipment sections.

While the photo above shows entirely alloy containers, the one below seems to show a Bell box in their new purple and blue scheme. It looks like a smooth-sided box too:

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:59 by Mol_PMB
Added IROPA

[Mol_PMB]

Meanwhile north of the border, McArdles were making a name for themselves building containers for customers in Ireland and abroad:

 

Derry continued to be served by Anglo Irish Transport:

Here's a closer view of the Anglo Irish box:

 

And of the other smaller operators, Greenore Ferry Services was still in business:

 

The Cawoods entry gives a container fleet listing:

And the small Manx firm Ronagency had started to serve Belfast as well as their core Glasson Dock to Castletown IoM service:

 

[jhb171achill]

On 24/12/2024 at 9:12 AM, Mol_PMB said:

One of CIE's pre-ISO containers survives at Dromod C&L and I have several photos of that; I was wondering about a separate thread on them, as I have more Jane's scans to do for this thread.

 

A 3D print of these would be good - very much a part of a 1960s scene.

[Mol_PMB]

27 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

A 3D print of these would be good - very much a part of a 1960s scene.

I was thinking the same, though I don't have the facilities to do it myself. Perhaps we encourage one of the other forum members who could?

I'm going to do a little thread about them bringing together the information on them, and of course with a survivor there is scope to measure up.

There were at least four liveries carried by them - alloy with snail, alloy with block lettered CIE (as preserved), orange with roundel, and blue. They lasted well into the 1970s.

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I was thinking the same, though I don't have the facilities to do it myself. Perhaps we encourage one of the other forum members who could?

I'm going to do a little thread about them bringing together the information on them, and of course with a survivor there is scope to measure up.

There were at least four liveries carried by them - alloy with snail, alloy with block lettered CIE (as preserved), orange with roundel, and blue. They lasted well into the 1970s.

Never saw an orange one - any pics?

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Never saw an orange one - any pics?

Merry Christmas - everyone needs an orange in their stocking!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511632554

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570643358

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511775805

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510231502

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/52074843633

 

There's a blue one here among the orange and alloy versions:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509178353

 

[Mol_PMB]

One thing I missed when scanning the 1970-71 edition was that a few operators provided details of their container numbering schemes. Among them were entries for B+I and CIE.

The B+I listing gives information on their pre-ISO numbering scheme for the early boxes and flats, as follows:

In the same edition in the main part of the book, their fleet was listed as follows, which is almost consistent but of course doesn't give the actual number ranges:

Looking at this wonderful 1971 image from Jonathan Allen on Flickr, the B+I line container on the wagon appears to be numbered UL 768, a 20x8x8 dry box.

Note that these early B+I boxes had a blue stripe, and were lettered in white B+I LINE with the logo on a red square.

This is distinct from the livery that came shortly afterwards, where the stripe was changed to red, the lettering to B+I FREIGHTWAY in a mix of white and blue:

This photo from the NLI archives is also dated 1971 and shows both types together in a train; the first 4 containers are two of each type, and they are all the same height (8') although the red stripes are higher up the sides than the blue ones. The fifth container appears to be an ACT box, while the sixth is an 8'6" high open top and curtain sided 'tiltainer'. Beyond that I think are two 30' long boxes?

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307819

Another NLI photo shows some of the B+I 'tiltainers' with IROPA branding in 1973 (as mentioned before, IROPA was a B+I joint venture):

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307963

By 1979, the new B+I branding (as modelled by C=Rail) was making an appearance as shown in this photo in the IRRS Flickr archive:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511107541

However, there were still quite a few of the 'red stripe' livery boxes around, and plenty of the orange ones with a blue B+I / IROPA panel as shown in this photo by Wrenniere:

 

I'm going down a rabbithole and getting ahead of myself with B+I. Back to the 1971 container fleet listing section and the other Irish entry which was for CIE:

It starts off looking very promising and then just stops, mid-sentence, without giving any numbers or explanation of them. Not as helpful as it might be! Note that both ISO and pre-ISO containers are included in the listing, and the quantities of each are combined.

The following year, the CIE container fleet listing is given as follows, categorised a bit more helpfully:

I'll explore these some more in due course.

[Mol_PMB]

Thinking about models, Arran does a 20'x8'6" undecorated drybox with vertical logo panels that is a pretty close match to those B+I IROPA boxes, could be a fairly easy job with all-over orange and a couple of panels of lettering.

https://shop.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=159

CIE also had some boxes of this general type with the vertical logo panels:

 

For the older B+I 20'x8' alloy types with quite widely-spaced ribs, I think there's scope to modify some of Arran's flush-sided ones of this type:

https://shop.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=292

I'd rub down the sides to remove the rivets and then add thin plastic strip ribs. Because the livery is mostly in the coloured bands, these could be done as transfers in one piece for each side.

Arran doesn't currently sell these 8' high boxes as kits or undecorated, I wonder if that's possible as it would make the conversion both easier and cheaper? Perhaps I will ask him after the Christmas hols...

 

Incidentally I went searching in my stock of paints looking for something orange, and found a couple of decades-old jars, not just CIE orange but Bell purple too. I wonder if they are still usable?

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

I'll now take a quick look at the 1973-74 Jane's. Container shipping was evolving rapidly at this time, with smaller operators merging, being taken over, or simply failing to compete.

The 'Republic of Ireland' section ran to 5 pages with the usual suspects:

CIE's listing was a bit briefer than in previous years but did included an updated container fleet list (above). They were also advertising their road freight service to Europe:

One of the container crane adverts included a nice photo at Dublin, featuring a variety of containers - Irish Ferryways and Containerway on the quayside while an anonymous Lancashire Flat is craned aboard the ship :

I'm not sure who was operating the ship at the time, but here's a link to another photo of her on the Ships Nostalgia site at Garston in 1975, with plenty of Cawoods containers on board:

Back to Jane's, and the B+I listing for this year wasn't very interesting for containers, but the Bell listing does give a useful fleet list; all their containers were 8'6" tall and the 20' dry cargo type was dominant:

We can see the start of the merger period because the Coast Lines Group (which included Anglo-Irish, Northern Ireland Trailers, Link Line and others) is now part of the P&O group. Note the container fleet listing, some of ISO sizes and others not:

On the subject of Northern Ireland Trailers as part of this group, there are some nice photos of their equipment on Flickr (click on photos to link back to the originals for more info on each):

Something for the old truck lovers in there!

 

Also some older photos at Preston of the Irish services with earlier container types:

 

[Mol_PMB]

Possibly displaying an unhealthy fascination with Greenore Ferry Services (and I don't know if their containers ended up on trains in Ireland) here are four photos of their vessels with containers loaded. Looks like they were unpainted alloy with a yellow band around the middle:

https://www.shipspotting.com/photos/1719326

https://www.shipspotting.com/photos/1774147

I wonder if any of these do appear on a train in photos from the 1970s?

[Mol_PMB]

Moving on to the early 1980s, and my last copy of Jane's Freight Containers is the 1982 edition. By this time there had been massive changes in the global container shipping scene, and Ireland was just a minnow in the grand scheme of things. There had also been a lot of mergers and acquisitions, and hundreds of 'fallen flags' in US parlance. Here's the Ireland section:

By now, CIE had introduced their 'Uniload' 10' containers which were a pretty late development in the grand scheme of things. The hopper containers still merit inclusion as a curiosity. The side-door 20' boxes are pictured as something more typical. In the manufacturers section the new Acrylonitrile tanks merited attention, and the firm in Clones seems to be on a marketing offensive:

 

 

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

In 1982, both Bell and B+I were still going, and provided detailed entries for Jane's including container fleet listings. 40' containers were becoming more numerous but far from dominant at this date:

 

P&O's subsidiaries were listed together under the owning company's heading:

Ellerman Lines had played a bit part in Dublin services for a while, and I've seen Ellerman Lines containers on trains in photos at North Wall, so I'd better include a bit of information on them here. Their main business was the Med and Gulf via Suez:

Another shipping line that had been operating to Ireland for a decade or so on a fairly low-key basis was the France Ireland Line, sometimes known as the Holland Ireland Line, or indeed the France Holland Ireland Line! I don't know much about this firm or their containers, but they served both Waterford and Dublin:

[Mol_PMB]

For the CIE container fleet, another source of information is the annual reports, which are online here:

https://www.cie.ie/en-ie/Who-we-are/History-of-CIE/Historical-Reports

Each year, these list CIE's assets which include containers (and of course railway rolling stock, road vehicles, etc).

For containers, the data is generally quite comprehensive but there are some complications:

• The Rail and Road divisions list their containers entirely separately from each other, and use different classifications/descriptions of the container types
• The category boundaries can be blurred, for example is an insulated ISO container included in the 'ISO' category or the 'large covered insulated' category?
• The reporting format changes dramatically between 1973 and 1974, making it difficult to track trends.

Let's start by taking a look at the rail division, 1951-1973:

In 1951 the railway part of CIE did not declare any container assets, but this may have been an omission rather than an indication that there weren't any. From 1952 to 1961, the situation was fairly stable, with around 200 containers in total. Broadly speaking, these comprised roughly:

• about 30 'Large covered' - probably equivalent to a British Rail 'B' or 'BD'
• about 30 'Small covered' - probably equivalent to a British Rail 'A'
• up to 75 'Insulated' - perhaps equivalent to a British Rail 'AF'?
• about 100 'Open brick' - perhaps equivalent to a British Rail 'D'
• a handful of specialist containers for furniture, bicycles, and 6 milk tanks

The GNR was a significant user of containers, and many of theirs came into CIE ownership after dissolution of the GNR(B) in 1958, but this isn't obviously reflected in the statistics quoted in the annual reports. The accounting of GNR(I) / GNR(B) assets in the 1950s isn't my specialist subject!

In 1961, the Insulated containers disappeared from the Railway assets, but some new types were introduced:

• about 75 Greyhound/Dog kennel containers
• about 60 more 'Large covered' were added
• the 6 milk tanks were deleted and 6 glucose tanks were added - possibly the same tanks re-purposed?

This situation continued until 1965, but before going beyond that date it may be useful to look at the CIE road division container fleet, shown in this graph:

From the first report in 1951, the road division had around 100 Furniture containers, later reclassified as Merchandise. They also had a growing fleet of Livestock containers. A handful of alcohol, grain and tar containers soon joined the fleet.

In 1957, 50 Meat containers joined the road fleet, at the same time as the railway fleet of Insulated containers was reduced from 75 to 25. This probably represents a transfer of assets between divisions. The figures suggest that the remainder were transferred in 1962/63. A small group of Cement containers were introduced in 1959-1961.

The road fleet of Furniture/Merchandise containers was signficantly increased in 1961/2, followed by the addition of more new Meat/Insulated containers. The fleet then remained fairly constant through the 1960s although the livestock containers decreased in number.

All the containers discussed so far in this post were pre-ISO types, because the ISO regulations were not published until the mid-1960s. Before moving on to the late 1960s, I'll add a few photos of these pre-ISO containers in the next posts.

[Mol_PMB]

Lurking in the background of Ernie's photo at Broadstone in 1960 are a selection of traditional CIE wooden-bodied containers with snail branding:

Again one of Ernie's photos, this time at Mallow in 1966, the first 4 wagons are all carrying containers. Three have sheets over them which may indicate a leaky roof or a water-sensitive cargo. They appear to be CIE containers. The fourth container may be a privately-owned example, I can half-read a company name on the end:

There are lots of photos in the IRRS Flickr archive (only visible to members), which are linked below.

A snail-branded large wooden example in the 1950s:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500993248

In the 1940s, a County Donegal open container. I've included this as an illustration of what the 'Open Brick' containers might have looked like:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509032848

Several 1959 photos of 'Small Covered' containers formerly owned by the GNR and inherited by CIE:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511437118

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511437123

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511582084

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511613489

A different design of small container, which appears to be alloy sheeted, with snail branding:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511703975

Alloy-sheeted 'Large Covered' types, still in use in 1968-1970:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570648873

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511639484

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498764321

The blue one here may be a BR insulated container, but the grey one in the wagon is probably CIE:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449503188

 

[Mol_PMB]

As we have already seen, both the rail and road divisions increased their stock of large covered containers in 1961/62, and the development of an improved type of container was notable enough to warrant a photo in the 1962 annual report:

These containers appear to be of alloy construction, with distinctive external channel ribs. The brackets on the roof might be there to enable the containers to be stacked, though I would imagine that they could only be stacked when empty. Although of similar cross-section to the older types, they appear to be longer. The CIE container fleetlists in Jane's describe pre-ISO dry cargo containers with dimensions of 18'9" x 7'6" x 7'6", and pre-ISO insulated containers 19' x 7'9" x 8'3", which may describe these containers. The length of around 19' would have been too long to fit on or in a traditional Irish goods wagon, but the 25201 series flats were also introduced in 1962 with a length of 20', and would have been suitable. It's worth noting that these containers are branded 'CIE ROAD FREIGHT SERVICES' and so were presumably part of the road assets rather than the railway assets.

I'm going to digress a bit into CIE logos. We all know about the snail and the roundel, but there was actually an intermediate phase in the early 1960s. Looking at the annual reports, the snail reigns in the 1950s, but from 1960 to 1963 the branding style on the report is white C.I.E. on a dark block background, as seen on the containers in these photos. From 1964, the roundel appears on the annual reports and there is a brief note that may refer to its introduction in December 1963. Although the black and tan livery was introduced in 1962, the early repaints didn't have any roundels; nor did the first locos painted in the all-black livery. I don't think the roundel was introduced on the loco livery until about 1964.

This photo from Pat Kirwan on Flickr must be from about the same date, and shows these containers in colour:

The photo above shows that there were at least two different types of these containers - note the curvature of the roof and the shape of the reinforcing ribs which are different on these two types. The Jane's listing includes both dry box and insulated variants, so that may be the reason for the two different designs. The photos suggest that the type with the large radius roof was insulated, and the more sharply-curved roof was the dry box type.

The 'ROAD FREIGHT SERVICES' lettering is just visible on the left-hand contanier and appears to be in orange.

Ernie's collection on Flickr has a nice photo of one of these in an earlier variant of the scheme. This is the type with the gently curved roof (right hand side of the photo above). The 'ROAD FREIGHT SERVICES' lettering is green, but looking through the loco cab windows we can just make out the white C.I.E. lettering on a black block. I think I can also see the letters 'IN' on the side, which might be the start of 'INSULATED'. The container is on a 25436 series flat wagon, and it's not quite the full 20' length, which would be consistent with the dimension quoted in Jane's of 19':

This photo in the IRRS archive dated 1971 shows the same type of container on the same type of wagon. This time all the lettering is in orange, including an orange roundel instead of the black block, and it reads 'ROAD FREIGHT SERVICES INSULATED CONTAINER':

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570450071

These containers in unpainted alloy livery also crop up in the background of other photos, such as this one from Ernie:

 Also this one from Jonathan Allen (spotting these can be a bit like "Where's Wally?"!

Another from Jonathan Allen, and a rare view of a 23201 series flat wagon:

The road division assets in the early 1960s also included a dozen grain containers, and this photo shows that they were of similar design and livery, with 'BULK GRAIN' branding:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511551075

There was also another variant, with side doors, which can be seen in this 1965 photo from Ernie. Similar white C.I.E. lettering on a black block, probably some other lettering underneath but I can't make it out:

 

[Mol_PMB]

Many of these alloy pre-ISO containers survived to be painted in orange, and although branded for the road division they were commonly seen on trains too.

The IRRS photo archive has a good selection of photos of orange ones, but they're harder to find in the public domain. You'll need to join the IRRS if you haven't already!

Here's non-insulated container VA-62 in orange, with black lettering and roundels:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511632554

A partial but close-up view of VA-35, again non-insulated. I think they had 3 door hinges whereas the insulated versions had 4 hinges.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511350441

Here's one in a train, with an older, shorter type of container also visible behind:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570643358

Two in the siding at Lisburn in this Jonathan Allen photo:

A series of four photos at North Esk in 1975, showing one of each of the two main types. On the trailer is the insulated type with shallow-curved roof., whilst alongside it on the ground is the other type with the smaller radius roof:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510231502

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511775805

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527761305

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527761270

The dimensions given in Jane's indicate that the insulated ones were 9" taller than the others, which looks plausible in these images.

Finally for the early 1960s pre-ISO boxes, here's a view dated 1986 with four of them lined up at North Wall. One alloy with black block logo, two orange with roundel, one blue. CIE used blue on some wagons and containers (and even one Mk2 coach) in the early 1970s, and it looks as if at least one of these containers was treated to the same scheme:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509178353

[Mol_PMB]

As we move towards the second half of the 1960s, the 1966 CIE annual report notes that the road freight division introduced 40 new containers, and also contains this illustration.

This is the side-door type we behind an NCC mogul previously. The slightly odd thing is that the number of large covered containers reported in the rail division's assets increased by exactly 40, but the road freight division's total barely changed. As might be expected with a truly intermodal asset, there seems to have been a lack of clarity about whether these were road or rail assets. Incidentally these pre-ISO alloy containers also appear in photos of ships.

The 1967 report described the developments over the previous year, which included more significant developments. Nearly 200 new flat wagons (in the 25436 series) had been constructed, suitable for 20' containers with a 20t payload. 150 'Lancashire flats' were introduced (some as road assets, some as rail, again not entirely consistent between sources) as well as a further 30 containers and 6 new bulk glucose tanks. New gantry cranes were installed at many stations and the road freight fleet was strengthened with more tractor and trailer units.

The Irish Ferryways partnership was begun, and some of the first ISO containers (IF assets not CIE) were shown in the report:

More Lancashire Flats would be added over the next few years, until there were over 500 of them. Traditionally a Lancashire Flat was a flatbed body with framing underneath so that it was self-supporting, usually with a headboard at one end, a couple of feet high. We've seen them earlier in this thread, I'll repeat this lovely photo of a B+I container service where you can see stacks of empty Lancashire Flats - red ones are Containerway, Orange are Irish Ferryways, blue are Link Line, yellow may be Northern Ireland Trailers. Also a CIE container of the pre-ISO ribbed alloy type, and CIE ISO insulated examples too:

CIE seem to have used the term Lancashire Flat to describe a variety of different flat or low-sided containers used for all sorts of purposes: Guinness, fertliser, etc.

The 1968 annual report was big on containers (and there's another pre-ISO type here that I hadn't seen before:

The stage was set for the introduction of CIE's first ISO containers of their own, but that's a story for another day...

[Mol_PMB]

I forgot something. Here are my photos of the surviving container at Dromod, showing both ends and the accessible side. This is the 1962 type, non-insulated:

 

And from another thread on here, Wrenneire's photo of one which certainly survived into the late 1980s but perhaps much more recently. This is the best view I've seen of the side of a 1965 side door type:

I'd imagine either type would be fairly straightforward to do as a 3D print, though I say this as someone who doesn't really know what's involved. Carrying a range of liveries and good for the 1960s and 1970s periods they might be popular.

[Mol_PMB]

Another pre-ISO container example, from Brian Flannigan on Flickr.

From 1952 until 1960 the CIE statistics list 6 milk tank containers. In 1961 these seem to have been repurposed to glucose tanks, and I think that's what we're looking at here. (I'm aware there were later, ISO-compatible glucose tank containers as well). The road division also had some demountable tar tanks but this doesn't look black enough to be a tar tank.

It's also a very nice illustration of one of the 25201 series flat wagons. These were the first 20' long 4-wheel flats and were built in 1962 to carry the larger pre-ISO containers described in the previous few posts. Although vac fitted, they were only rated for a 12t payload and were quickly superseded by the 25436 series which could carry 20t.

Edit: these also appear in the background of this IRRS photo at Crossmolina siding, Ballina:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508956685

On reflection, they may well be privately owned tanks (no CIE logos etc) so I might be making a mistake in trying to correlate them with the CIE listing.

 

A couple of IRRS photos dating from 1966 show another of the 25201 series flats, loaded with what might be an 'open brick' container, a 3-plank wooden dropside. On the other hand, CIE might have considered this under the 'Lancashire Flat' umbrella:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508466241

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508783939

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Mol_PMB
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