GNR 'Sunburst' gate freestanding display model

[Fran]

Traced from an original drawing the gate is laser cut in MDF.
Such a simple yet elegant design.

[Mol_PMB]

Lovely! I remember my dad pointing those out to me when I was on childhood holidays in Ireland.

I think they must have been used elsewhere too, not just the GNR, as we normally visited the west of Ireland?

[minister_for_hardship]

Ex GS&WR gates with sheet metal to prevent small animals getting through.

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Ex GS&WR gates with sheet metal to prevent small animals getting through.

Ah, those must be the ones I remember from the west of Ireland. Not quite the same design, even accounting for the missing bits and modifications. Is there a drawing for one of those anywhere?

[Tullygrainey]

43 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Lovely! I remember my dad pointing those out to me when I was on childhood holidays in Ireland.

I think they must have been used elsewhere too, not just the GNR, as we normally visited the west of Ireland?

Yes indeed. This one on the Belfast and County Down between Ballygowan and Saintfield. There was  another one at Ballynahinch Junction last time I looked.

[Fran]

My friend has two of these, mind you he does live on/close to the Dundalk/Greenore railway route. This one is the better of the two and in great condition, even though it's had no attention.
I'd be tempted to buy it off him if I had a field that needed a gate 

[Mol_PMB]

19 minutes ago, Fran said:

My friend has two of these, mind you he does live on/close to the Dundalk/Greenore railway route. This one is the better of the two and in great condition, even though it's had no attention.
I'd be tempted to buy it off him if I had a field that needed a gate 

I like that very much!

It's upside-down in the photo; the extra bars to block smaller animals should be at the bottom.

If you get a chance, could you measure the overall width and height and let us know? I'd also like to make a little one for my model railway.

[Tullygrainey]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

It's upside-down in the photo; the extra bars to block smaller animals should be at the bottom.

Interestingly, the BCDR gates are symmetrical. No extra bars. No small animals in County Down? 

[Mol_PMB]

Seems there was more variation among these than I had imagined; the first one is the same as @Fran's friend's example:

Gate by the old railway © Michael Dibb :: Geograph Ireland

Branching off at Duleek

A Thomas Telford sunburst gate, Treborth © Meirion cc-by-sa/2.0 :: Geograph Britain and Ireland

[Fran]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I like that very much!

It's upside-down in the photo; the extra bars to block smaller animals should be at the bottom.

If you get a chance, could you measure the overall width and height and let us know? I'd also like to make a little one for my model railway.

I'd still think a small inquisitive lamb could get out though .
The next time I'm passing I'll call in, the biggest thing will be remembering to measure it as it's lying against the side gable of the house and not immediately visible when you drive up.

Here's the picture of the plan that I traced. You have got to love the shading and the additional detail, in my view it's a piece of art.



On my traced drawing it's 200mm between vertical uprights and 94.677mm between the horizontal bars but with it being a vector drawing I did scale so that I had one even number.

Edited Friday at 16:54 by Fran

[Patrick Davey]

Would be good to get these in 4mm........?

[leslie10646]

8 hours ago, Fran said:

Traced from an original drawing the gate is laser cut in MDF.
Such a simple yet elegant design.

 

14 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Would be good to get these in 4mm........?

Fran, you've obviously got one of these - what scale?

Patrick is not the only person who'd like a few!

[minister_for_hardship]

Contractor's gate and fencing. Manufactured by William Bain & Co, Loughrin Iron Works, Coatbridge.

New Ross branch.

[Mol_PMB]

38 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Would be good to get these in 4mm........?

I have an idea for an etch in 4mm. Let me see how practical it is - the detail is rather fine but I have a cunning plan.

There are several variants - are people fussy about which sort? I could potentially put a mix of different ones on an etch.

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, Fran said:

I'd still think a small inquisitive lamb could get out though .
The next time I'm passing I'll call in, the biggest thing will be remembering to measure it as it's lying against the side gable of the house and not immediately visible when you drive up.

Here's the picture of the plan that I traced. You have got to love the shading and the additional detail, in my view it's a piece of art.



On my traced drawing it's 200mm between vertical uprights and 94.677mm between the horizontal bars but with it being a vector drawing I did scale so that I had one even number.

Lovely drawing, and there's a scale along the bottom so I should be able to work out the true size.

But I'd still be interested to know the dimensions of the other type if you get a chance - would be interesting to see whether they are the same.

1 hour ago, Fran said:

I'd still think a small inquisitive lamb could get out though .

I'm sure a gambolling lamb could find its way through any fence or gate into the path of a train. I've certainly run over a few in my time. 4 sheep and a badger, which makes me an ace!

[Mol_PMB]

For an etch. It's far too fine to be punching out rivets - the metal would become badly distorted. 

The top and bottom of the gate are 2"x2" angle which is about 0.7mm, the diagonals are 1.25" x 0.375" strip which is about 0.4mm x 0.125mm. We can do that - my E class is etched in 0.25mm thickness nickel silver so a half-etch would be 0.125mm thick and a line thickness of 0.4mm is practicable - some of my grilles were a bit less than this.

So the simple option is to ignore the rivets, in which case the gate could be done as a single-piece etch with the diagonals half-etched from one side or the other to give the overlapping appearance.

The more complex option is to make the gate in two layers, again the diagonals would be half-etched but this would allow the rivets to be left proud as full thickness. One set of diagonals would be on one layer, the opposite diagonals would be on the other layer, and the top, bottom and verticals would be on both layers. I'd arrange it so that the two layers would be surrounded by a fret that folded, so the two layers would be folded onto each other and soldered or glued together while still attached to the fret (ensuring perfect alignment) and then separated from the fret and cleaned up. More complex, but you get the rivets and the layered detail of the quarter-circles in the corners, and there's also the ability to have the top and bottom rails visibly thicker than the diagonals as they should be.

So, the conclusion is that it can be done by either method, one is a bit more complex to make and requires a bigger area of etch. If I was working in 7mm scale I'd definitely go for the 4-layer rivetted variant, but in 4mm scale I think maybe the simpler option is more practical (much as it pains me to simplify...)

[MD220]

8 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

Yes indeed. This one on the Belfast and County Down between Ballygowan and Saintfield. There was  another one at Ballynahinch Junction last time I looked.

The Ballynahinch Junction gate is still there, I pass it regularly!

[Mol_PMB]

Work in progress with the simple option, it needs some more black diamonds on the intersections and there's scope for better detail on the quarter-circles. I also need to think about hinges and catches. Dimensions of this gate are 40mm x 19mm in 4mm scale.

 

[Fran]

2 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

 

Fran, you've obviously got one of these - what scale?

Patrick is not the only person who'd like a few!

Being a newbie and not a true modeller (I apologise for that remark especially on this forum) I don't necessarily work to a set scale, it's usually sized to suit myself, however, that is probably about to change the more I learn and find out about modelling.
The model in the picture is 300mm wide as it's more of a display piece rather than having to fit in a certain scene/layout.

If my understanding of 4mm scale is right, assuming a gate is approx 4' high a scale gate would be 16mm high? Wow, that is small, a laser can cut very file details but I'd imagine the finished item would more flimsy that a paper doily.
 

[Mol_PMB]

Yes, 4mm scale is small! I have a laser cutter but to do something this fine in card or thin ply would be impossibly flimsy.

Hence why I'm looking at etching from thin metal, which is quite possible for something like this. I've always liked these gates but never had a drawing, so your contribution with this thread is very much appreciated. Thank you!

[Fran]

Just to experiment and to see have fine my laser can cut, I tried using the same file as I used above reduced down to 40mm wide.
I'm very surprised at the result, it has cut it successfully even though I push out some of the middle elements. I thought it was just going to be a burst mess. The fact that the material is 3mm MDF must have helped to give it a little strength.
Every day's a school day.

[Mol_PMB]

That's actually very effective. I'd be tempted to try it on something thinner like 1mm MDF.

[Fran]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

That's actually very effective. I'd be tempted to try it on something thinner like 1mm MDF.

The angle of the photo and depth of material is deceiving, the bars are hairline thin. I don't have any 1mm MDF but I do have some heavy card.
"How thin can you go???" the latest IRM challenge