Mol_PMB Posted August 8 Posted August 8 Introduction CIE’s fleet of 66 AEC-powered railcars are fairly well-known. Delivered in the early 1950s they lasted in service until the early 1970s and were then rebuilt into push-pull sets for Dublin suburban work, pending completion of the DART. By their final withdrawal in the mid 1980s they were very run-down and unloved, and only one car survives in relatively poor condition. RTR models are available from Silver Fox, and an etched scratch-aid kit is available from Worsley Works. Each of these approaches to modelling them have some challenges. Personally, I’m hoping that IRM eventually produce an AEC railcar model. Perhaps if I waffle on for long enough about them, it will provide them some encouragement! The AEC railcars were operated in sets with conventional coaches as intermediate vehicles. These coaches had to be through-wired to work with the railcars, and only a small proportion of CIE’s total fleet had this wiring. So in model form, you shouldn’t couple any random carriage in your railcar set – there are particular types that worked with the railcars, and others that were physically incapable of doing so. In this thread I will examine and illustrate the carriages that worked as intermediates in the CIE AEC railcar sets. CIE also inherited a few AEC and BUT railcars from the GNR. Despite being of similar appearance, these had a different, incompatible control system. Some carriages were through-wired to work with them but they were mostly of GNR origins. I do not intend to cover the ex-GNR sets in this thread. This photo from Ernie on Flickr shows a nice variety of through-wired carriages as intermediate trailers, including a former GSR suburban coach, a Park Royal, and towards the rear of the set is a CIE 'laminate' in unpainted aluminium 'silver' livery: It wasn't just modern-looking carriages that ran with the railcars; there were some very old vehicles through-wired to work with them too. I think the oldest was GSWR diner 343 of 1898, one of two clerestory carriages which could run with the AECs: Quote
Mol_PMB Posted August 8 Author Posted August 8 Overview of through-wired vehicles The book ‘Diesel Dawn’ by Colm Flanagan tells the story of Irish railcar development and includes a list of the coaches that were through-wired to work with the CIE AEC railcars. That list is credited to Colin Holliday. This is the basis of the vehicles described in this thread. I suspect that the list is based on a CIE carriage register published in 1969, which identifies the carriages through-wired for use with the railcars and lists the same vehicle numbers. I’m hoping to obtain a copy of the register in due course so that I can check this. I believe that Colin Holliday’s list is correct in what it includes, but may be incomplete, as I have found strong evidence of a few carriages not on the list that were wired for AEC railcar operation. Those additional vehicles will also be described in this thread. Broadly speaking, the carriages wired to run with the AEC railcars fall into the following groups: Carriages built by CIE in the period that the railcars were being introduced, and through-wired from new. Older catering cars, used to provide food service in railcar expresses until the CIE buffet cars could be completed. In most cases these were withdrawn once the new coaches were available. Other older carriages, wired to work with the railcars owing to delays in the construction of new carriages. Some of these remained in service for a surprisingly long time. New carriages built by CIE after the railcars were introduced. New carriages built by external contractors (Park Royal, Cravens). Driving trailers, with control cabs to enable shorter railcar formations, or longer trains to be split. There were a total of 66 CIE AEC railcars, excluding the ex-GNR vehicles which had a different, incompatible control system. Some of these spent long periods out of use owing to fire or accident damage, so it is probably reasonable to assume about 30 railcar pairs in service at any one time. Photos show that the railcar pairs typically operated with 0, 1 or 2 trailers. They did not have enough power to haul longer trains. It may appear surprising that at least 90 carriages were through-wired for railcar operation, when a maximum of 60 could be used at once. Of course, these could equally well be used in loco-hauled trains and many of them must have been. Some through-wired carriages appear to have spent most of their life working in railcar sets, whilst others (such as the state saloon GSWR 351) may have only run in a railcar set a few times in their life. The subsequent posts will consider each type of carriage fitted to work with the railcars. When additional capacity was required on a railcar train, and a through-wired vehicle was not available, any vacuum-braked carriage or wagon could be hauled as 'Tail Traffic'. See this thread for more details and a wide selection of examples: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/19369-tail-traffic/ Historical Background CIE’s first annual report (for the period 1st June 1950 to 31st March 1951) notes that they had placed an order for 60 diesel railcars for main line and secondary line traffic. CIE had also put into service 6 new coaches, the first since 1937 and part of a planned construction programme of 117 new passenger vehicles [These would have been composites 2124-2129, 60’0” long and closely based on GSR designs]. The report also notes that 7 new restaurant and kitchen cars were under construction, the first since 1931. The report includes a full-page image of the first new railcars 2600 and 2601, as well as a new coach body under construction (this would have been one of the 1339-1350 series of compartment standards, 61’6” long). However, all was not rosy. CIE’s progress was hampered by serious industrial relations issues, with strikes affecting engineering and admin staff as well as operations. These were to delay the full introduction of railcar services. The following year’s report for the period to 31st March 1952 shows that the industrial relations problems were continuing, and causing delay to the introduction of the railcar fleet as well as the construction of carriages to run with them. The 12 new carriages mentioned here would have been corridor thirds 1339 to 1350. The talk of new catering cars in the previous year has been replaced with the conversion of existing stock to run with the railcars! The workers at Dublin Port acted in support of CIE’s striking electricians and refused to unload some of the newly-built railcars. Further delays to new carriage construction were caused by shortages of raw materials, and CIE instead ordered new coach and wagon underframes complete from England. I think some or all of these 100 carriage underframes may have been of the triangulated type; after this date CIE only built 47 more carriages on conventional underframes. By the next annual report in March 1953, CIE were still mired in the electricians’ strike which delayed the construction of new coaches and the import of new railcars: The new coaches mentioned here were corridor composites 2130-2136, this first three open thirds 1356-1358, and the remainder of the batch of corridor thirds 1351 to 1355; the latter were assembled at Dundalk, perhaps in an attempt to bypass the industrial relations issues at Inchicore. Meanwhile, the catering department reported some progress; the first few of the 2405-2418 group of catering cars had been built, and 8 older vehicles had been refurbished: The electricians’ strike ended in November 1952 and by March 1953 there were 20 railcars available. By March 1954 there had been much more progress – the total number of railcars in service was now 40, and the existing batches of open thirds and buffet cars had been completed, along with a new batch of composites. There were still a few more railcars to come, but the future of diesel traction was to be in a different direction and the board also announced their order of 94 diesel locos from Metropolitan Vickers. In the next few years, the remainder of the railcars were delivered and entered service, and some more coaches were through-wired to work with them. The later railcars were adapted for suburban service, and many of the later coaches modified to work with AEC railcars were also of suburban types. This historical background may not seem that relevant to the story of the AEC railcar trailers, but in my view it helps us to understand which carriages were through-wired in the early years, and why some rather ancient vehicles were converted. Quote
Mol_PMB Posted August 8 Author Posted August 8 CIE corridor composites 2128, 2129 These were part of the first batch of six carriages built by CIE in 1951, numbers 2124-2129. They were on a 60’0” underframe, 18” shorter than subsequent vehicles. Colin Holliday’s list indicates that only the last two were through-wired for railcar working, possibly while they were still under construction or very shortly afterwards. Given that the railcars themselves had quite generous first class provision, I suspect that few railcar trains needed additional first class seats, and these may have spent most of their life in loco-hauled trains. As yet I have not found any photos of these two vehicles marshalled in railcar sets. This is a bit of an underwhelming start to the list, I’m afraid! Therefore, to illustrate them I will have to rely on photos of this type of carriage in other circumstances. There is a good illustration of the first of these coaches in 1952 in ‘Irish Broad Gauge Carriages’ (Coakham) page 43, and another can be seen in this IRRS photo dated 1955: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511278711/ I believe this photo from Ernie also shows one of these coaches from the other side: The photos show that they were delivered in unlined dark green with unpainted aluminium window surrounds. The first class door was marked with a 1, but the other end was not marked. When first delivered this would have been third class, reclassified to second in 1956. Distinctive features of these coaches are an underframe with welded trusses directly beneath the solebar, and the body has 3 first class compartments and 4 thirds, with two smaller windows for the toilets in between. There is no central door. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted August 8 Author Posted August 8 CIE corridor thirds 1350-1355 CIE’s next batch of carriages built in 1951-1952 were corridor thirds, to the subsequent standard 61’6” length. 1339 to 1350 were built at Inchicore, while 1351 to 1355 were completed at Dundalk. Colin Holliday’s list indicates that 1350 to 1355 were through-wired for railcar working, probably while they were still under construction. There is a good illustration of 1349 brand new in 1951 in ‘Irish Broad Gauge Carriages’ (Coakham) page 40 – this shows that the Inchicore batch were delivered in unlined dark green with unpainted aluminium window surrounds (as per the corridor composites described in the previous post). I cannot confirm whether the Dundalk vehicles were the same. Mike Morant’s photo dated 1954 shows one of these corridor thirds in original condition, marshalled in an AEC railcar set at Albert Quay: ‘Irish Railways in Colour’ (Ferris) vol.1 p97 has a particularly nice colour view of one of these coaches in a railcar set in 1955, and this has a waist line but no class designations on the doors. Perhaps the Dundalk-built coaches had a waist line from the start; alternatively this vehicle may have been repainted. The green colour matches that on the railcars. This 1957 photo shows one with a waist line and the class designation 2 on the doors, as seen here again at Albert Quay: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253433960 They were still in use in railcar sets and elsewhere through the early black and tan era and into the 1970s, initially with 2 class designations on the doors and latterly without: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511468903 There are plenty of photos of these coaches in railcar sets; they are surprisingly common given that apparently only 6 of these carriages were through-wired. It makes me wonder if more might have been wired but missed off the register. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498712331 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505734182 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252969871 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253199098 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253199453 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253211594 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253199553 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252073152 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253212614 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306548 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255514105 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447019368 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447203394 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419476641 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419866325 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53445962837 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53446886101 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569589337 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570882930 Book references of these carriages in railcar sets are also quite numerous: IRRS Journal no.184 p66 Rails around Dublin (Murray) p53 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p30 Irish Railways in Colour (Ferris) vol.1 p97 Cork Bandon & South Coast Railway (Shepherd) p38 Irish Railways 40 Years of Change (Boocock) p23 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p67 Cork Bandon & South Coast Railway (Shepherd) p131 IRRS Journal no.182 p348 IRRS Journal no.182 p349 IRRS Journal no.186 back cover Rails Through North Kerry (Beaumont/Carse) cover Distinctive features of these coaches are an underframe with welded trusses directly beneath the solebar, and the body has 3 third class compartments at one end, plus 4 thirds at the other. In between, two smaller windows for the toilets flank a central door. More to follow in due course… 5 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted Thursday at 17:22 Author Posted Thursday at 17:22 I've found some time for the next chapter, covering the most numerous group of AEC railcar trailers: CIE open thirds 1356-1371 In 1953 CIE introduced a batch of open thirds specifically intended to run with the new railcars. All 16 vehicles were through-wired from new, and photos indicate that they were the most common type of trailer used with the railcars. This CIE official photo shows one of the open thirds when newly-introduced in July 1953: Ernie also has a photo from September 1953: These coaches were delivered with their green livery enhanced by an eau-de-nil waist line, 2” wide and 1.5” below the unpainted window frames. The railcars themselves had a similar waist line, but had shallower windows so the lining was about 6” higher up on the railcars than on the open thirds. Colour photos indicate that the green shade matched that on the railcars, which may have been a slightly different shade from the green used on earlier CIE carriages. As first built, they did not carry the snail logo or any class designations, though 2 was added to the doors after 1956 when they were reclassified as open seconds. This photo from Roger Joanes shows a typical 3-car set with one of the open thirds: And this IRRS photo shows a similar set in colour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511728190 These two colour photos from Ernie also show them in lined dark green: By the early 1960s some had acquired a snail logo on their dark green livery, while others may have been repainted in the lighter green livery (it’s hard to tell in many monochrome photos): https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305399 In the mid-1960s they were repainted in black and tan, and carried that scheme until withdrawal after the railcars had been converted to push-pull sets: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257011769 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508120562 There are many other photos of these coaches in railcar sets: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/53853633474 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498866628 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/51907327499 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511297176 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/50193815228 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498866623 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511798629 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511297171 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252073207 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253212404 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53813452669 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304738 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305041 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305284 https://www.flickr.com/photos/110691393@N07/11400376815 https://www.flickr.com/photos/110691393@N07/11400431675 https://www.flickr.com/photos/110691393@N07/11400441724 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253392935 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305513 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305580 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511183996 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511252101 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511620953 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772649 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772684 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772694 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511886465 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569647147 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569647147 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306045 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306086 https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/uploads/monthly_2015_12/__3-20-1.jpg.9ae2e802cad805469ad9216c29a02039.jpg https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449371036 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511453276 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255514105 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256773881 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257011844 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419477551 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53445962742 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54418616292 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53446886166 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447019408 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447203244 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506625071 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447019273 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505734222 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257199340 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570446526 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507047915 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511468903 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527604884 Book references of photos showing these carriages in railcar sets are also very numerous: Rails around Dublin (Murray) p53 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p25 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p35 IRRS Journal no.61 p71 Rails around Dublin (Murray) p14 Railways in Ireland part 3: DSE/MGW etc (Bairstow) p37 Irish Railways 40 Years of Change (Boocock) p23 Irish Railways 40 Years of Change (Boocock) p23 Railways in Ireland part 3: DSE/MGW etc (Bairstow) p23 The Railways of the Republic of Ireland (Baker) p44 West Cork Railways - Birth, Beauty and Betrayal (Larkin) p100 West Cork Railways - Birth, Beauty and Betrayal (Larkin) p101 West Cork Railways - Birth, Beauty and Betrayal (Larkin) p131 West Cork Railways - Birth, Beauty and Betrayal (Larkin) p92 Diesel Dawn (Flanagan) p101 Railways in Ireland part 4: GS&W (Bairstow) p45 The Waterford, Limerick & Western Railway (Shepherd) p29 Diesel Dawn (Flanagan) p62 IRRS Journal no.182 p348 IRRS Journal no.186 back cover Cork Bandon & South Coast Railway (Shepherd) p76 Irish Railways in Colour (Ferris) vol.2 p13 IRRS Journal no.181 p325 Rails Through North Kerry (Beaumont/Carse) p75 Rails around Dublin (Murray) p16 Diesel Dawn (Flanagan) p101 Rails Through North Kerry (Beaumont/Carse) p59 Rails Through North Kerry (Beaumont/Carse) p96 Rails around Dublin (Murray) p53 In Colin Holliday’s list, 1364 and 1367 have a note that they were compatible with the GNR AEC railcars. I suspect this was a later adjustment as when these vehicles were built the GNR was still a separate company. Distinctive features of these coaches are an underframe with welded trusses directly beneath the solebar, and the body has 8 large windows alongside the seating bays in the saloon. One door is at the end, but at the opposite end of the carriage there is a full-height white toilet window between the door and the end of the carriage. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted Thursday at 17:37 Author Posted Thursday at 17:37 CIE buffet cars 2405 to 2418 In 1953/4 CIE introduced a batch of buffet cars, intended to run with the new railcars and in loco-hauled trains. As well as the buffet counter they seated 39 passengers. All 14 vehicles were through-wired from new, and photos indicate that they commonly used with the railcars on longer-distance trains. They soon displaced the motley collection of GSWR and DSER catering cars which had been through-wired for the first few years of railcar operation. (I'll deal with those in a later post in this thread) The construction was very similar to the coaches described above: a conventional wooden-framed body clad with steel panels, on a conventional welded steel underframe riding on GSR-type bogies. The earliest photos showing them in service in railcar formations date from 1954. The IRRS Journal no.184 page 66 shows a typical railcar express formation of the period (5th September 1954), including one new buffet car which is clearly a lighter colour than the other carriages and railcars. This correlates with a statement by Kennedy (in the IRRS journal for June 1965, Issue No. 37) that these buffets were painted in an experimental lighter green livery. On the other hand, the buffet in this 1955 photo by Ernie seems to be the same colour as the other vehicles. Perhaps only a few were finished in the light green livery? Note that the buffet does not carry a snail or class designations. Here’s another in the darker green without snail, seen in colour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449371036 Later the fleet received the standard light green, and in this livery the toilet window was usually painted green rather than white, as seen here in 1961. They also gained a snail, but did not have a class designation on the doors: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419498281 That livery is also shown nicely in colour in IRRS Journal no.181 page 325. ‘Irish Standard Gauge Railways’ (Middlemass) page 59 also has a very clear photo of 2407 in the light green livery with snail. Finally they were painted in black and tan, as seen here in the mid-1960s. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511770454 However, by this time most long-distance services were loco-hauled and the railcars were increasingly used on secondary and suburban routes which did not require a catering service. The buffet cars were transferred to loco-hauled trains. There are some other photos of these coaches in railcar sets: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498712396 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498866628 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/51907327499 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511297176 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511798629 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252072952 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305183 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305580 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772699 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54256773881 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53446886101 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/51981716040 Book references of photos showing these carriages in railcar sets are as follows: Rails around Dublin (Murray) p53 Railways in Ireland part 4: GS&W (Bairstow) p15 Railways in Ireland part 4: GS&W (Bairstow) p17 IRRS Journal no.61 p71 Railways in Ireland part 3: DSE/MGW etc (Bairstow) p37 Irish Railways 40 Years of Change (Boocock) p23 The Railways of the Republic of Ireland (Baker) p44 IRRS Journal no.182 p348 Irish Railways in Colour (Ferris) vol.2 p13 IRRS Journal no.185 p162 Distinctive features of these coaches are an underframe with welded trusses directly beneath the solebar, and some large vents on the roof. The bodysides are asymmetrical with different arrangements each side. From left to right, the kitchen side has a door, 3 large windows, a door, then a blank panel, 3 narrow frosted windows, 2 large windows and a door. The other side has a door, 5 large windows, a door, 3 large windows and a door. The right-hand full-size window is frosted/white, later painted green. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted Thursday at 17:52 Author Posted Thursday at 17:52 CIE buffet cars 2419-2422 A further batch of 4 buffet cars followed in 1956. These had similar bodies to the previous group, but were mounted on triangulated underframes and commonwealth bogies. This 1960 photo by Roger Joanes shows a railcar and buffet car probably both in the lighter green introduced in the late 1950s: Other images of this small fleet in railcar formations are as follows: https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305513 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306045 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305041 Diesel Dawn (Flanagan) p62 Diesel Dawn (Flanagan) p101 Distinctive features of these coaches' bodies are the same as described for the earlier buffet cars. However, the underframes adopted the new triangulated design. The welded trusses were set behind the solebar, with the battery boxes and some diagonal braces in front of them. Commonwealth bogies were fitted, and originally the underframes and bogies were painted silver. Even looking in the distance down the train, this extract from one of the NLI photos linked above shows a clear contrast between the older underframe and bogies of the nearer open third, and the new design of the buffet car beyond: It's worth noting here that while CIE built large numbers of carriages on the triangulated underframe with commonwealth bogies, not many of them were through-wired for railcar operation, and most of those were Park Royals. More to follow in due course... 1 Quote
Mayner Posted Friday at 05:07 Posted Friday at 05:07 Galley side of Buffet Car 2409 as restored by GSRPS at Mallow 1984. Some or possibly all of the original batch of Buffet Cars had their original pattern GSR bogies replaced with B4 bogies to run with Craven stock on loco hauled services during the 60s, the majority of older CIE stock (51-54) including 1st batch of Buffet Cars on conventional underframes were withdrawn shortly after the introduction of the 1st of the MK3 Intercity stock and the commissioning of the DART in 1984. Side Corridor coach on Triangulated Underframe on Commonwealth bogies apparrently in the GSRPs interpretation of the GSR brown and cream livery of the late 20s-early 30s. The 1953 batch of Side Corridor (3rd/2nd/Strandard Class) coaches 1356-1371 were built on a traditional steel underframe with GSR pattern bogies similar to those used under the original batch of Buffet Cars. 3 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted Friday at 07:20 Author Posted Friday at 07:20 Thanks John, those are nice clear shots. I suspect these buffets had mostly ceased being used in railcar sets by the time the B4 bogies were fitted - I haven’t found any photos of B4-fitted examples in railcar sets. According to the list I’m working from, none of the side-corridor coaches on triangulated underframes and commonwealth bogies were through-wired to work with the railcars. It was only some of the older batch with conventional underframes. I do have plenty more types to cover in future posts. I’ll probably be looking at some of the suburban types next. Quote
Mol_PMB Posted 10 hours ago Author Posted 10 hours ago Driving Trailers 1906 and 1907 To complete the set of early 1950s CIE coaches through-wired as railcar trailers, we have these two rather special but enigmatic vehicles. A batch of 5 brake open thirds were built in 1953 and numbered 1904 to 1908. They were similar to the open standards 1356 to 1371 described in a previous post, but had only 5 bays of seats and a brake compartment, complete with side duckets. Unlike later brake vehicles, the double doors to the van area were curved and flush with the sides - later batches had flat doors which were either inset or proud. They had the traditional trussed underframe and GSR bogies. There has been a lot of discussion of these vehicles on the forum already, in this thread: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/3975-brake-standards-1904-1908/ Some time around 1955-1956, coaches 1906 and 1907 from this batch were modified as driving trailers to work with the AEC railcars. A driving cab was added to the brake end, which required removal of the guard's ducket and changes to the door and window arrangement on the driver's side. A windscreen was added in the end, along with a triangle of headlights. Most obviously, the bogies were replaced with the commonwealth type - giving a very unusual combination of a traditional trussed underframe with commonwealth bogies. The intention was that these driving trailers could be used cab-to-cab within a longer railcar train, allowing the train to be split en route, but retaining through access along the train before it split. They could also enable a 2-car set to operate with one power car and one driving trailer. It should be noted that there are some inconsistencies in published sources about which coaches were converted from the batch of 5. Pender & Richards say 2 coaches, 1907 and 1908. However, later photos of 1908 prove that this was not converted. BSGSV's post in the thread linked above says 2 coaches, 1906 and 1907. Photographic evidence indicates this to be correct. Colin Holliday's list says 1 coach, 1906 The CIE carriage register published in 1969 shows only 1906 as through-wired There are plenty of photos of 1907 with the bogie, cab, window and headlight modifications in the 1960s and early 1970s, but not formed in railcar sets. It appears that 1906 and 1907 were converted, but that 1907 later lost its wiring and control equipment, but retained the other vestiges of the conversion. 1907 was destroyed in an accident in 1974 and this photo shows the cab side window and door arrangement which replaced the ducket on one side. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527598229 Here's a couple of photos showing an intact one, earlier in life: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253223013 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306044 Note that the door position has also been moved compared to an unmodified one: These photos compare the other side, not much changed here apart from the bogies and headlight: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252109222/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52959572973 The only photo I've found of one of these actually in a railcar set is this lovely shot from Ernie, dated 8th June 1956. Here the carriage has its cab modifications but seems to be used a plain intermediate: There are several IRRS photos of 1907 with RPSI 184 or 186 around 1970, prior to 1907's destruction in an accident: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570456911 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569599852 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570654018 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511309423 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511309418 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307782 What these show is that 1907 had been converted to a driving trailer in the same way as 1906 (cab, headlights, commonwealth bogies etc), but by 1970 it had lost its headlights and therefore was no longer functional as a driving trailer. Other internal control equipment may have been stripped out too, but we can't see that in the photos. That would tally with the entry in the coaching stock register for 1969 which shows only 1906 (not 1907) wired for use with the diesel railcars. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted 9 hours ago Author Posted 9 hours ago Suburban Railcars Railcars 2600 to 2647 were intended for main line use and delivery of these was between March 1952 and February 1954, contemporary with most of the trailers described to date. The next ten AEC railcars were destined for suburban use, and were delivered later in 1954 with an extra 4 seats in place of the toilet compartment but otherwise similar to the main-line cars. The last two (2658 and 2659) entered service on the Waterford & Tramore section in September 1954 with high-density bus seating throughout. 2658 retained the normal van area with steam heating boiler, but 2659 had its van space replaced with additional seating. Over the next 3 years, all the suburban cars were modified to this specification, with 78 or 80 seats in the boiler-fitted cars, and 94 or 96 seats in the others. Consequently, the next groups of carriages to be through-wired for use with the railcars were suburban carriages. The biggest group of these was the Park Royals, which will be described in the next post. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted 9 hours ago Author Posted 9 hours ago Park Royals The Park Royal coaches were designed by the same firm as the AEC railcars. However, in construction and appearance they were radically different – a lightweight metal body with exterior ribs, which was unusually wide in the central saloon section, but narrower at the end vestibules. This was mounted onto a triangulated steel underframe with commonwealth bogies. They were supplied to Inchicore in kit form and assembled there by CIE staff, over the period 1955 to 1956. The initial livery was dark green, including green ends. The sides had an eau-de-nil waist line and unpainted alloy window frames; they did not carry class designations at first. The underframes and bogies were painted silver when new, but became dirty very quickly. 40 Park Royals were built for suburban use, with seven bays of 10 seats in the main saloon, and a further 12 seats and standing room in the large vestibules; toilets were not fitted. They were numbered in the range 1379 to 1418. These photos from Ernie and IRRS show them when first in service: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506776188 Of these 40 coaches, the following 12 vehicles are listed as being through-wired for railcar use: 1397, 1398, 1399, 1400, 1402, 1403, 1407, 1409, 1410, 1411, 1414, 1418. The haphazard selection of numbers may indicate that they were retro-fitted as an afterthought, or perhaps more vehicles were fitted initially and some had lost their through-wiring by the time the list was prepared. The earliest photos I have found of a Park Royal in a railcar set are dated August 1956, including this one from Ernie. Note that this isn’t a suburban duty, and there are plenty of other photos showing suburban Park Royals in railcar sets on long-distance services: Of these 12 vehicles, 1407 was unique in being fitted with a driving cab, and was initially used on the W&T line. Here's a photo of it from Roger Joanes: There is also a photo in IRRS Journal no.104 p272. Compared to the other driving trailers 1906 and 1907 described in the previous post, the cab of 1407 is on the opposite side. Note that a further 10 Park Royals were built with toliets (and fewer seats) for main line use, but none of these were fitted to work with railcars. In June 1956, third class was redesignated second class. Many of the Park Royals received ‘2’ digits on their doors, on the original dark green livery, like this: Late 1950s repaints were in the light green livery with black ends and ‘2’ class designations. In the light green livery, the sides had an eau-de-nil waist line but the alloy window frames were painted over in green. This isn't a railcar trailer but illustrates the livery nicely: From 1962 the black and tan livery was applied, initially with class designations: This nice colour shot shows a railcar set with two Park Royal intermediates, one in light green and the other in black and tan. Note also the the railcar has the high-density suburban seating throughout, including what would have been the van area on the main-line railcars: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251527288 An unusual attempt to promote commuting by rail was applied to vehicle 1399 in 1963, seen here formed in a railcar set on suburban duties: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54372688542 The Park Royals were some of the last trailers used in AEC railcar sets in the early 1970s; by this time the 2nd class designations had been discontinued as shown in this photo by Jonathan Allen dated May 1975: Not many photos are close enough to read coach numbers, but here’s Park Royal 1410 with AEC 2604 in late 1971: https://archive.rcts.org.uk/shopviewer.php?pg=44154&code=CH06260C There are plenty of other photos of these coaches in railcar sets over the years: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253254294 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253391335 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/51899161679 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/51657586999 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511772644 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253242693 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255088906 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255088941 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255321049 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255320994 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/53081076683 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449684534 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570446486 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570882915 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570770054 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511105076 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569589332 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53447203319 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449780550 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570770114 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570882930 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527604884 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53569589337 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39218949724/ https://archive.rcts.org.uk/shopviewer.php?pg=44154&code=CH06260C https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39218949724/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39218950054 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/28149247259 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39218949504 Book references of photos showing these carriages in railcar sets are as follows: Railways in Ireland part 4: GS&W (Bairstow) p2 Cork Bandon & South Coast Railway (Shepherd) p38 Irish Railways in Colour (Ferris) vol.1 p87 Irish Railways in the 1950s and 1960s (McCormack) p125 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p67 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p67 IRRS Journal no.104 p272 West Cork Railways - Birth, Beauty and Betrayal (Larkin) cover+102 Cork Bandon & South Coast Railway (Shepherd) p136 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p126 The Cork, Bandon and South Coast Railway Vol.3 (Creedon) p131 Many of us are looking forward to the IRM models of the Park Royals being delivered soon. Of the available range: For the original mid-1950s darker green livery with green ends, 1388 could be renumbered 1398 to represent a through-wired carriage. I’m not sure what shade of green is being used for these; the samples shown to date do not include one in this livery. 1402 in light green with black ends is directly suitable for a late 1950s/early 1960s railcar set. 1400 and 1409 in black and tan were through-wired but are modelled in their ‘TL’ condition which post-dates their use as railcar trailers. If you wanted a black and tan vehicle then 1387 or 1413 are in the correct condition, and could be easily renumbered to 1397 or 1418, for example. The IRM range also includes 1407, the former driving trailer, but modelled much later in life. 1 Quote
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