Pavements

[David Holman]

A trifle bizarre and more than a little niche, but here is one for local historians among you...

On my new Clogher Valley project, am interested to know what pavements were like in small town, rural Ireland in the pre-war period. In particular, would surfaces be paving slabs (and if so, what sizes), or gravel/tarmac?

In addition, did roadside gutters in towns have a concrete slab next to the curb stone, or did the road surface extend right up to the curb.

An idea of when town centre roads were tarmaced would be useful too, plus how the road would have been surfaced beforehand.

Not much then, so fingers crossed!

[Glenderg]

I think the slightly wealthier towns may have had paving slabs and cobbles on the roads. Tarmac wasn't invented until turn of the century - does that help?

 

Have a look at this for inspiration - http://lawrencecollection.com/

 

My guess on the tarmacing of roads might not have taken place until sometime in the 1930's, due to the lack of vehicles prior.

 

[jhb171achill]

Yes. Tarmacced roads came to most rural Irish towns in the late 1930s, but paving stones for pavements with kerbstones were a good bit earlier. Gutters tended to be along by the edges of the kerbs and basically dipped troughs lined with cobble stones about the size of large potatoes

[Broithe]

Perhaps a specialist feature, and they've gone recently, when the Guards had a new wall, but these stones that were just a bit too big and, so, were just tarmacked round, amused me for many years.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Broithe

[jhb171achill]

I think the slightly wealthier towns may have had paving slabs and cobbles on the roads. Tarmac wasn't invented until turn of the century - does that help?

 

 

My guess on the tarmacing of roads might not have taken place until sometime in the 1930's, due to the lack of vehicles prior.

 

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Correct. Big cities - rectangular cobblestones on streets, gravel surfaces on lesser roads. Country towns - gravel roads in streets, tarred from mid 30s. Tarmac may have been invented, as such, around 1900, but it was several decades before it came to almost all places in Ireland.

 

Pavements - paving stones typically about 1ft X 2ft, or 1'6" x 2'6".

[David Holman]

Many thanks gents - stars one and all!

Have been peering at various photos in my different books on the CVR, but this one of the railcar certainly gives a glimpse of the guttering. I have some Wills cobbled setts sheets that will do nicely when sliced up as gutting. For the rest will be using tried and tested 'Gravett' techniques, namely pre-painted, pre-cut self-adhesive address labels for the paving slabs and talc on gloss paint for the tarmac.

All modellers should note just how smooth the tarmac surface of the road is. No 'texture' needed at all in scales below 7mm [painted card will do] and even talc is pushing it a bit for texture in this scale. Same goes for ballast [always go one scale down at least in my opinion] while rough tracks and yard surfaces need little more than fine sand, even in larger scales.

Edited December 18, 2016 by David Holman

[Kirley]

 

Pavements - paving stones typically about 1ft X 2ft, or 1'6" x 2'6".

 

My understanding was Flag stones, as they were known locally, were usually three by twos (3' x 2') cobblestones were confined to Cities/ large towns( Mourne granite square sets). Kerb stones were also Mourne granite.

[jhb171achill]

3 x 2 is also possible, yes.... Very few were larger than that, very few smaller than the earlier dimensions, from observation of old photos. Cobbles would indeed have been large tonws; not only that, but the busier thoroughfares in them.

[murrayec]

Hi David

 

Cow-****! Loads of Cow-**** and horse do-do, that's what covered the roads....

 

I can recommend reference to Mr. 'Robert L. Chapman's Ireland', a publication of part of his photograph collection between 1907-1957. He took scenic photos around the county all featuring roads up close- photos of trains, bikes, motor bikes and street scenes. His famous shots are of the ice-cream vendor selling ices to the spectators watching the army on the other side of the Liffey, duke it out with the Custom House Rebels and burn down the amazing building.

 

His rural shots are classic, they'll take you by surprise as to how little street clutter there was back then and looking at some of the shots of the Dublin streets indicates limited street cleaning, one can barely see the cobbles with all the debris on top- I think the stuff as mentioned above, I'm told the place smelled a bit to!

 

Regards

 

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

Tis actually true; horse poo is a necessity! One for the weathering department......?

 

A modern road on a layout set in 2016 or 1976 would need the odd puddle, worn white or double-yellow lines (not pristine ones!), oil and tyre marks and the occasional weed to look realistic - one might even say the odd bit of litter in the gutter. Same is true of days of yore.

[Broithe]

And, on the tarmac front, no two pieces of tarmac have ever existed that were the same colour. The variations in reality can even look a little false on a layout. It can be as light as an almost off-white colour. Trenches, patches and filled-in potholes very rarely blend in properly.

[jhb171achill]

I've always admired Arigna Road's weeds, puddles and undulating surfaces. I think that a mirror-smooth uniformly coloured model road will always look more toy like.

 

There's some American man who posts up youtube clips of scenery making which look as real as any photo. Doubtless, though, many of us might prefer to retain hard-earned funds for many of the good models available, rather than scenic materials!