More on CIE livery 1980s Tan , yellow, orange

[Junctionmad]

 

copy right acknowledged - link only 

Shows BSGV 3183  in 1983  before the tippex livery , Most photos at this time show this kind of Yellow/mustard livery , rather then the more orange later tippex livery, 

Is this correct or a trick of the light , i.e. should I be repainting my Cravens to a far more mustard like colour 

 

The confusion is hers a picture from 1985 

 

which is the correct tone ?

thanks

 

Dave 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Junctionmad

[Noel]

Its a trick of the light as at that angle you are also seeing a clear reflection of other colours (e.g. sky, trees and foliage opposite, etc).  "Mustard" isn't a colour that jumps to mind from the B&T era.  Tan, Golden Brown, Deep orange (i.e. more red than yellow).  "Some" later IR/IE era had more yellow in the orange mix, whereas early mk3s had a slight red bias.  Consistency was not consistent!  Also factor in UV and weathering over time.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Noel

[Junctionmad]

here a picture from the 1976  ( again a link )

 

nice shiny carriage in possibly near new condition , so is that colour the original ?

 

[Noel]

If of any use, so far on CIE era coach re-sprays and CIE B&T locos I have used a mix of Tamiya acrylic X6 (orange) with a few drops of X64 (brown), with a water based thinner for airbrush use. This gives a sort of 'golden brown' shade of orange. 

I plan to switch to mixing Vallejo acrylic paints for B&T tan/orange as they run through the airbrush a little easier and clog less, but I made a total bags of mixing their yellow and red last week.  Old chinese proverb start with lighter primary colour first then progressively add small quantities of the darker colour until the correct shade is achieved, not the other way around or you will use too much paint in the mixing process.

[Glenderg]

Get a tinlet of phoenix precision Golden Tan, or whatever it's called, (enamel) spray or brush a square inch onto a piece of plastic. Then mix up your tan in acrylic, and spray or brush it on beside. The two dried alongside should help in terms of mixing to suit. A hairdryer is invaluable, as is one of those sample jars at the doctors' for large batches. Do it once, do it right. About 150ml should see you through until 2019. 

[jhb171achill]

The one at Bray looks best. The "mustard" and also the unnaturally dark shade apparently shown in the pic at Ardrahan are not at all accurate. They are the result of in one case under-, and the other case over-exposure of the camera film.

All three carriages are exactly the same colour. No weathering or wear comes into it; it's the photo in each case.

[popeye]

Colour films back then would be different from one brand to another.

Fuji film was warmer than Kodak for transparency film.

Over or under exposure would affect the colour and the type of daylight.

Colour negative film and prints were rarely correct.

You only need to look through some railway books and you will see how many shades of orange there are.

Plus they were repainted many times over the years.    

[popeye]

The picture at Bray above has a strong blue cast which i have corrected so you can compare. 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

Well done, Popeye, that shows up well the vagaries of different films.

I am currently examining a photographic collection which, if restorable, will go in a future book. But the slides have deteriorated so badly that a green "A" class is a bluey grey, while a carriage behind it, which would be in the older darker green, looks a dark purpley brown....

This slide, despite great historic interest, is sadly way beyond any restoration.

Memory of witnesses can be equally unreliable, but someone with a keen artistic eye will be the best judge of all.

[Noel]

On 19/12/2017 at 1:17 AM, Glenderg said:

Get a tinlet of phoenix precision Golden Tan, or whatever it's called, (enamel) spray or brush a square inch onto a piece of plastic. Then mix up your tan in acrylic, and spray or brush it on beside. The two dried alongside should help in terms of mixing to suit. A hairdryer is invaluable, as is one of those sample jars at the doctors' for large batches. Do it once, do it right. About 150ml should see you through until 2019. 

Good suggestion. Did that Richie when mixing Vallejo primary colours but boy their red pigment is really strong, needs a just fraction of red to yellow instead of a 50/50 mix to get the right shade of tan. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Noel
typo

[jhb171achill]

Many many years ago, Model Irish Railways of Portadown sold little tins of authentic-shade CIE tan. Anyone know what happened them, or if an appropriate CIE shade can be bought now?

[Old Blarney]

JHB, 

Message sent to you re details of MIR. 

  

Edited January 25, 2018 by Old Blarney

[Noel]

20 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Many many years ago, Model Irish Railways of Portadown sold little tins of authentic-shade CIE tan. Anyone know what happened them, or if an appropriate CIE shade can be bought now?

Hi Jonathan, Its a Phoenix Precision paints product.  Its enamel so I don't use it other than to create reference cards to help me mix Tamiya and Vallejo Acrylics to match.  But you will need either AddressPal or ParcelMotel to get it shipped by post from UK to Ireland north or south due ridiculous hazchem H&S limits Royal Mail imposed a few years ago (i.e. including shipping enamel model paints off the island of GB).  Noel

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/precisionrailway/irish/14p881

PS: You can mix up any of the CIE/IE tan/orange colours by using Tamiya X6 (orange) mixed with a very small amount of XF64 (brown), and optionally just a few drops of Red depending on the shade you are looking for.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Noel

[jhb171achill]

Perfećt, Noel, many thanks.

[Junctionmad]

Quote

H&S limits Royal Mail imposed a few years ago (i.e. including shipping enamel model paints off the island of GB).  Noel

just to avoid confusion, International bans on materials are a result of EU and UN internationally agreed agreements, they Royal Mail has largely no say in the matter 

Domestic shipments are within the Royal mails prevue 

Enamel paint is a solvent based paint , The Royal Mail will not send  enamel paints domestically or internationally 

 

Quote

Solvent-based paints, wood varnishes and enamels

• International  - Not allowed in the mail
• UK - Not allowed in the mail

The problem is most domestic UK shipments that are solvent based  are therefore sent using couriers, which is cheap enough on mainland UK , but more expensive to Northern Ireland and of course even more expensive to ROI

Hence  you need to use AddressPal and not Parcel Motel,  

it should be pointed out that AN post have the same regulations, its just that they dont check what they receive from the courier in AddressPal in the UK and have no way of knowing whats in the parcel.  Its not that its legal to do it that way

Edited January 25, 2018 by Junctionmad