loco J15 186

[Weshty]

Is 186 out of commission for good now?  I was just reading the RPSI website and see that it classed as a museum piece. 

[jhb171achill]

It is currently out of commission, as more suitable locos (i.e. faster) are now in traffic. It I should in good shape though, and could be out back into traffic comparatively easily if necessary.

[StevieB]

Isn’t there scope for RPSI and DCDR working together so that the smaller RPSI locos unsuitable for modern day mainline working can find work on a heritage line?

Stephen

[Garfield]

30 minutes ago, StevieB said:

Isn’t there scope for RPSI and DCDR working together so that the smaller RPSI locos unsuitable for modern day mainline working can find work on a heritage line?

Stephen

They've worked together in the past, with both the Guinness tank and 'Harvey' based at Downpatrick at various times. A loco like 186 is a different proposition -  it may not look huge but it's actually quite a bit bigger than the wee tanks and would consume a vast quantity of coal in comparison.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, StevieB said:

Isn’t there scope for RPSI and DCDR working together so that the smaller RPSI locos unsuitable for modern day mainline working can find work on a heritage line?

Stephen

Most certainly is, StevieB. Two RPSI locos have worked there, and at the time of the Antrim relaying contract some years ago, the DCDR had offered to make its two E class locos available should it be necessary (it wasn't).

A J15, though, is too big for the DCDR. Not in terms of size, of course, as the DCDR was a main line, and the Quoile Bridge could take an 071 - but coal appetite. It would cost several thousand each way to transport it to Downpatrick, and its coal consumption would be far too uneconomic.

In theory, a straight swop could be done with 142 and 146!

Edited February 27, 2018 by jhb171achill

[Mayner]

The small GMs basically replaced locos like the J15 on the goods and D14 on passenger services with a little extra power to spare as a diesel would not stand up to the same level of abuse as a steam loco.

In an ideal world it would be nice to see 184,  186 & Lough Erne given at least a cosmetic restoration rather than stored out of sight out of mind

[jhb171achill]

186 is ok, as it's displayed and in authentic appearance. I often though that with one J15 at Whitehead on display, a good location for a cosmetically restored 184 would be the museum at Downpatrick.

No. 27 - years ago, there was a proposal for a museum at Belcoo, with a short line to operate Railcar B on. Funding, unusually, was available, through EU and Peace money. This was about 1999 / 2000.  Lough Erne was to be a star attraction in a museum there, in the old (now demolished) goods shed. While funds were there, the landowners weren't all agreeable so it didn't happen.

[Weshty]

Thanks lads, sounds like 186s steaming days are done by the sounds of it.

[minister_for_hardship]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

  Lough Erne was to be a star attraction in a museum there, in the old (now demolished) goods shed. While funds were there, the landowners weren't all agreeable so it didn't happen.

Typical Ireland. This is why we can't have nice things.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Weshty said:

Thanks lads, sounds like 186s steaming days are done by the sounds of it.

Not necessarily, Weshty, and I would add hopefully not.  Should circumstances arise where there's a shortage of the bigger locos which will take some years to get back to normal - and this HAS happened in the past - it's possible. I certainly hope so - she's a superb loco. But for the foreseeable future, right enough, she's unlikely to turn a wheel in traffic.

[Mayner]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

186 is ok, as it's displayed and in authentic appearance. I often though that with one J15 at Whitehead on display, a good location for a cosmetically restored 184 would be the museum at Downpatrick.

No. 27 - years ago, there was a proposal for a museum at Belcoo, with a short line to operate Railcar B on. Funding, unusually, was available, through EU and Peace money. This was about 1999 / 2000.  Lough Erne was to be a star attraction in a museum there, in the old (now demolished) goods shed. While funds were there, the landowners weren't all agreeable so it didn't happen.

I understand that the RPSI considered loaning 27 to Westrail for use in the West of Ireland before IE embargoed the Athenry-Claremorris Line in the early 1990s. Apparently the RPSI & Westrail came very close to a loan agreement for the loco, but the plan fell through at teh 11th hour when Westrail lost their main line connection at Tuam.

[jhb171achill]

I don't remember that appearing officially, as it were, at committee level (I was on the management committee then). It's possible that it was discussed informally by someone though. The Belcoo proposal was about the same time, and what happened there was that it was mentioned as a "request likely to be made shortly", and no objection was forthcoming, the actual request never came about. However, a request WAS made to CIE for Railcar B, then at Mallow, and was agreed to, as was a request for the MGWR 6-wheeler at Whitehead, No. 62M. This coach was then privately owned, and the owner was very much in favour of it going to Belcoo, but events overtook. The Belcoo scheme was dropped due to landowner's "local politics" issues, despite funding being there!  Shortly afterwards, the private owner donated 62M to the RPSI, so that had a future request been made it would have been dealt with by the RPSI according to their then policies for such things.

For info, I was asked to advise the Belcoo scheme from a railway operational perspective, and Selwyn Johnston of Enniskillen was a leading light in it too. The scheme would have consisted of exactly a mile and a half of line restored from Belcoo, opposite the old station (to avoid reinstating the level crossing) and over the river (and from Fermanagh into Cavan) to a terminus at the picnic site at Lough MacNean lake shore. It would have been a lovely line. Rolling stock was to have included Railcar B, with as a companion, NCC No. 1 - an old railcar line. NCC 1, owned by the RPSI, was in the opinion of then commiottee members, fair game, and it is reasonable to assume that loan agreement would then have been forthcoming. The restoration of both was estimated and included in what became a successful European funding application. ERDF money, Peace money, Fermanagh District Council money, and EU cross-border funding were all available. A new booking office would have been built in the adjacent community centre in Belcoo, and a two-road shed built behind it for the stock. On the station side of the road, the old goods shed, now long gone, was stull standing, and would become a museum, into which "Lough Erne" would go, along with small exhibits. The O'Dolan sisters were on board, amenable to the track being relaid along the old platform, should it be possible to reinstate the level crossing at some stage. In the end, we got them a GNR signal which stands there to this day.

In addition to the railcars, the MGWR six wheeler would have been operable, and one G class and an old carriage chassis as a "work train" flat wagon would complete the rolling stock.

Had the thing progressed, I would imagine another six-wheeler, probably from Mallow, would have arrived there. Trains would have consisted of a railcar on its own, or towing a six-wheeler.

Gardner engines were sourced in England, of identical type, one each to be fitted into both of the railcars to have them standard, and a third was to be sought out as a spare.

All in all, I think it would have made a very nice set-up indeed, and importantly for rural Irish railway heritage, as cheap as possible to operate. No pretensions towards steam haulage were to be made, though had the thing been a runaway success, I am sure a request for the Guinness engine or "Harvey" would have been made to Whitehead in due course.

I think I still have all the details somewhere.

[Mike258747]

Thank you for the very interesting information about the proposed Belcoo project. I am very familiar with that part of the world but had never heard of the project. It would have been a great asset to the area but sadly not to be. I have often passed the signal at the old station but never knew the story behind it.

[jhb171achill]

On 01/03/2018 at 4:39 AM, Mayner said:

I understand that the RPSI considered loaning 27 to Westrail for use in the West of Ireland before IE embargoed the Athenry-Claremorris Line in the early 1990s. Apparently the RPSI & Westrail came very close to a loan agreement for the loco, but the plan fell through at teh 11th hour when Westrail lost their main line connection at Tuam.

I don't recall that, John - it was certainly never formally discussed. It's possible there were informal conversations about it though.

 

2 hours ago, Mike258747 said:

Thank you for the very interesting information about the proposed Belcoo project. I am very familiar with that part of the world but had never heard of the project. It would have been a great asset to the area but sadly not to be. I have often passed the signal at the old station but never knew the story behind it.

Had it happened, Mike, what would now be there would be a line to the lake shore, with trains operated by SLNCR "B", NCC 1, with a G and 2 MGWR six wheelers as back up.

And - would you believe - possibly a 2750 on loan from IE! There's a story behind THAT too!