Scale "0" Gauge

[jhb171achill]

I'm vaguely drawing up plans for a small future diorama featuring a Blessington-style steam tram to just run up and down maybe a 6ft long plank, with high quality scenery to make up for its simplicity.

We hear of 21mm gauge track to simulate "00" scale 5ft 3. By my estimation, scale track in "0" scale would be about 37mm gauge.

Does anyone have any thoughts on such a thing? Has anyone tried it?

What I'm looking at would be absolute simplicity in the extreme - one might better call it a "working diorama". The track would be end to end, with a short siding at a mid-way halt, into which maybe two four wheel trucks could be shunted.

[murrayec]

Hi jhb

You'll have to make the track!

Best to look at David Holman's threads on Gauge O layouts in spot-on Irish gauge, also he could advise on best approach....

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

21 hours ago, murrayec said:

Hi jhb

You'll have to make the track!

Best to look at David Holman's threads on Gauge O layouts in spot-on Irish gauge, also he could advise on best approach....

Eoin

....which is precisely why the whole thing would have just one turnout! As a first attempt.....!  I also thought of taking normal track and assuming it's scale 5ft 3, and hand-making models which would be a smaller scale to make the track right......

I'm looking at a board about 8 inches wide - basically a shelf - as i said the whole thing would be a "moving diorama" just to see what it looked like. Once Dugort Harbour is fully up and running though, time will be of the essence as they say.....

[murrayec]

Hi jhb

...so then I reckon 1:44.3 would be your model scale?

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

Ghastly! I’d need to be a mathematician!!

[murrayec]

It's easy jhb

Track = 32mm divide by 37mm (Irish Scale Gauge O Track) = .864 so add .86 to 43.5 (UK Gauge O Scale) = 1:44.3 = Irish Gauge O Model scale.....

Eoin

[Maitland]

It drives me crackers that simple division sums flummox people. I'm not blaming anybody here, but it's nearly 900 years since Fibonacci introduced the simple Arabic/ Indian system, but the rule of three doth bother far too many people and that's an indictment of teachers. A perfectly good calculator is a quid in a British pound shop, no idea if you have Euroshops.

A foot is 304.8mm exactly. Five foot three is five and a quarter times that- 1600.2mm Nobody ever laid track accurate to two tenths of a millimetre. That's only twice the level of drink in an English spirit glass, so 1600mm. Seven millimetres to the foot, so 304.8 divided by 7 is... 43.5(42857...) and ignore the small change, 43.5. and 1600 divided by that is.... 36.78(16092...). That's 37mm in anybody's book- the difference in real scale is 3/8 of an inch give or take Trump's IQ.

Far more cogent- what gauge did Fry use? (32mm I bet). And Arigna Town?

 

[jhb171achill]

It's all do-able, of course! 

I like the "Trump's IQ" bit - must remember that!

[David Holman]

Ok, been there, got the t-shirt!

Correct gauge in 7mm scale is 36.75. Plain track simple, indeed the first piece I made was with code 100fb rail glued to card sleepers with contact adhesive.

 Assume the the Blessington probably used FB rail so that combination could work on a diorama, but better with solder construction using copper clad sleepers. Marcway of Sheffield my source and they did my points too. At £60 each, they are around 25% more than Peco, but worth it, as being self isolating do not need switches and can be worked by wire in tube. Simples!

 Honestly, JB, broad gauge is FAR easier in 7mm scale. Slater's wagon and coach wheels are easily moved out to 34mm back to back, while they do a 34mm loco axle as an extra. Everything else is the same as British outline, pretty much, so castings are available from Northamptonshire Models and several other suppliers. Join the Guild for all the trade knowledge and surprise your friends by telling them you have become a 'Gauge 0'...

 Iain Rice's recent book 'Cameo Layouts' contains a wealth of ideas and inspiration, including track plans, with Gauge 1 diorama in five feet among them.

 Such a project is a great way to have a dabble in 7mm scale, but beware, it is very addictive!

[KMCE]

Hmmm....

 

By my calculations the scale should be smaller than the 7mm, as you are trying to use the 32mm track to model 5' 3".  Thus if 32mm track equates to the 1,600mm prototype, the scale must be 1,600 / 32 => 1:50?

I would agree with David - it's probably easier to construct track than to scratch build every element of the model in an unusual scale.

Ken

[murrayec]

oops lads!

sorry about that- cant be adding a percentage to a ratio, my convoluted calculation needed another step- 1  /  .864 = 1.157 then  43.5 x 1.157 = 50.3 = 1:50

But jhb stick with Ken's maths, it's simpler and I just had to much chocolate cake after dinner......

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

I do have SOME exposure to 0 gauge, as jhbSenior had a vast coarse-scale 0 gauge enterprise in his loft many years ago.  It had a double track main line, a branch loop which returned as a reversingloop to the main line, and a separate branch line. All 1920s stuff. I used to "play" with it when I was 12-14. Sadly, in his late old age he dismantled it and sold the lot.

[David Holman]

 

I dabbled with the idea of 1:50, as 32mm track gives 5'3, while EM track gives 3'. However, it all falls down over wheels. In 7 mm scale a 5'6 driver would be 38.5mm diameter, with, say, 20 spokes. In 6mm(1:50) scale that driver would be 6'6 and should have many more spokes. Hence it is far easier to stick with 7mm and just build the track.

[jhb171achill]

The wheels, and things like buffers bought off the shelf, and perhaps other bits and pieces, will tell whether a model looks right. I suppose that track can be scratch built to any scale or gauge whatever.

[Mayner]

Pioneering Irish modellers like Cyril Fry & Drew Donaldson did not get too hung up in the correct scale gauge ratio. The  effect of modelling Irish Broad Gauge in 7mm on 32mm gauge track is not as noticeable as in OO, as British O gauge is reasonably close to standard gauge while OO is considerably under gauge.

The original C J Fry's Irish International Railway & Tramway was an International system with Irish and Continental models sharing the same tracks.

Going back to JHBs original query, does anyone remember the working Dublin & Blessington diorama that was in the Dublin Tourism O'Connell Street office in the 1990s? The layout was a simple oval with a street scene probably based on Tallagh with a D&BST double cabbed steam loco and a double decker tramcar.