RTE Archive - Western rail corridor track lifting row

[Noel]

I don't know how this panned out in the end or if the recondition rails from Ballina line ever made it back to Tuam. But interesting viewing

 

[jhb171achill]

They put them back - and they remain unused almost 30 years later......

[Noel]

20 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

They put them back - and they remain unused almost 30 years later......

Thanks for the info. Perhaps post CV-19 our economy might benefit if it decentralises more from the east coast and greater Dublin area more to the regions were rail for commuters and the shift to home based working helps regional towns like Galway, Limerick, Nenagh, Waterford, Carlow, Sligo, KIllkenny, Athlone, Foynes, Carrick-on-Shannon, Tullamore, Portlaoise, Maynooth, Middleton, Ennis, Mullingar, Navan, etc. Some of the old rail lines could prove invaluable in the future. I'm still flabbergasted that Youghal was not reconnected to Cork city as most of the engineering was still in tact and RPA still owned the track bed. Yet another greenway! How many do we need? Are Westport and Dungarvan not enough for cycle tourism. Next we might see pressure on other low traffic lines such as Rosslare-Waterford, Ballybrophy-Nenagh, Limerick-Foynes, Limerick-Waterford to be released as greenways. Once that happens they will never come back and future generations of people who have to commute by road to city work places will be surprised at the short sighted decision making of today based on short term economics. With national infrastructure the long game is needed with 100 year plans not 5-10 years.

[Noel]

PS: Seems bonkers there still isn't a high speed non-stop rail link between the airport and the city centre (ie like the heathrow express). But sure local politicians will want a stop every few hundred meters for their constituents shopping expeditions that will push the travelling public and business travellers onto faster private transport (ie as folk currently avoid the slow tube from heathrow to London stopping in every suburb because it takes an hour and is crowded).

[StevieB]

It’s sad that both Ireland and the UK go in for short term planning. I’m sure that planners would disagree but there needs to be a change in thinking such that people can have real choice when it comes to travelling between taking the train, bus and car, or cycling and walking. In the ideal world, Cork would still have a suburban rail network that included Bandon and Macroom. Wishful thinking I know but the new generation of electric/hydrogen cars will still be causing congestion in the future. Youghal should have been chosen as an area to be re-developed in terms of housing and employment, with a train service to Cork pivotal to its success.

Stephen

[DoctorPan]

A big issue that hampers development is the territoralness of areas. In the Midlands, back around Celtic Tiger days, there was a plan for Tullamore, Portlaosie, Athlone and Mullighar to form a city of sorts to counter balance Dublin. Fell apart as Tullamore councillors would complain when Athlone or Mullighar  would get a certain feature, others would block decisions as it went to the wrong country ecta. Then you get to the fact that a lot of regional towns are within catchment areas of each other, canablising each other and ending up with halfway measures. There needs to be set towns that are designed as regional focus points and areas around them be satiliate towns. There's a report from the 1950s that said the exact same and it'll be ignored. But we need to be realistic, Ennis is never going to be on the same level as Galway or Limmerick.

 

 

Its increditable hard to plan stuff when everyone is against it because its not in their area.

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, DoctorPan said:

A big issue that hampers development is the territoralness of areas. In the Midlands, back around Celtic Tiger days, there was a plan for Tullamore, Portlaosie, Athlone and Mullighar to form a city of sorts to counter balance Dublin. Fell apart as Tullamore councillors would complain when Athlone or Mullighar  would get a certain feature, others would block decisions as it went to the wrong country ecta. Then you get to the fact that a lot of regional towns are within catchment areas of each other, canablising each other and ending up with halfway measures. There needs to be set towns that are designed as regional focus points and areas around them be satiliate towns. There's a report from the 1950s that said the exact same and it'll be ignored. But we need to be realistic, Ennis is never going to be on the same level as Galway or Limerick.

Its increditable hard to plan stuff when everyone is against it because its not in their area.

Trouble is, that makes sense.

Our elected representatives "don't do "sense"".

[Noel]

16 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Trouble is, that makes sense.

Our elected representatives "don't do "sense"".

Problem is western democracies have us hassling legislators about potholes outside our homes, and jobs for little jimmy, bus services to our village, etc, so they can only see one electoral cycle at a time (ie <5 years). There's no time left for vision or sense, or the big national picture, just the parish pub, and react to the latest popular demands or start looking for a new source of income. Reps with sense, vision and planning usually don't get reelected if they don't look after the ridiculous local trivia.

[DoctorPan]

37 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Trouble is, that makes sense.

Our elected representatives "don't do "sense"".

They don't do sense because the voters don't do sense. We're all talk great things about what we want done to improve public life but the minute they start to do anything about it, a vocal minority who always vote come out against it. Look at how hard it's been to get Bus Connects through 

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, DoctorPan said:

They don't do sense because the voters don't do sense. We're all talk great things about what we want done to improve public life but the minute they start to do anything about it, a vocal minority who always vote come out against it. Look at how hard it's been to get Bus Connects through 

Very true, indeed.

And as for a Dublin underground or sensible additions to the Luas.................................................!!!!  I reckon another 112 years.

[Mayner]

Its possible that few people realise that the IE rail system came very close to collapse in the early 90s with worn out track and infrastructure on most main line routes. IE was expected to operate within a tight budget with insufficient funding to cover rolling stock and infrastructure renewals under the Governments "Building on Reality" programme with no major new investment in the railways following the completion of the Cork Line CTC & MK3 Intercity coach projects.

The railways were basically in a gradual run-down to closure pattern as track and infrastructure wore out and locos and stock required replacement. Ireland's finances were in a precarious state following the oil shocks of the 70s and recession of the 80s the Irish Government struggled to fund essential services such as health and education let alone subsidise the railways.

The Government started to loosen the purse strings mainly with EU money with the approval of the Kildare suburban services and 201 locos in the early 1990s but continued to keep IE on a tight rein until the major investment in track, signal and rolling stock renewals following the publication of the strategic rail review in the early 2000s. 

The main drawback is that rail will always be seen as an un-necessary drain on  public finances and has little effect in reducing emissions or congestion when you consider the big picture while roading can be made to operate as a true user or polluter pays system with tolls, road taxes, duty on fuels, insurance levies and taxes on purchasing motor vehicles, while the Irish Government basically pays people and businesses to use rail through subsidies and tax breaks.

[Mayner]

33 minutes ago, Noel said:

Problem is western democracies have us hassling legislators about potholes outside our homes, and jobs for little jimmy, bus services to our village, etc, so they can only see one electoral cycle at a time (ie <5 years). There's no time left for vision or sense, or the big national picture, just the parish pub, and react to the latest popular demands or start looking for a new source of income. Reps with sense, vision and planning usually don't get reelected if they don't look after the ridiculous local trivia.

Parish pump politics seems to be more of a problem in Ireland than other western democracies because of the lack of effective local government with power centralised in Leinster House with little or no power devolved to the Councils or regions.

We have a three year General Election cycle with a considerable level of power devolved to Regional and Local Councils this helps to keep the MPs focused on policy and the big picture stuff, while the regional council focuses on the environment an co-ordinating services at a regional or provincial while the Councils focus on delivering services at a local level, true parish pump politics.

The plus side is that we get to elect from a wider talent pool, the downside is that many of our politicians become invisible when elected and we have to pay taxes to central government and rates to two tiers of local government.

Interestingly the regional councils rather than a national body like the NTA are responsible for the funding and provision of public transport, so the local rate payers know exactly how much they are paying in terms of subsidy for the public transport services in their region or locality.

[Ironroad]

2 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

Interestingly the regional councils rather than a national body like the NTA are responsible for the funding and provision of public transport, so the local rate payers know exactly how much they are paying in terms of subsidy for the public transport services in their region or locality.

That makes a lot of sense and is akin the the concept introduced by the Tramways Act of 1883 which allowed Baronies (forerunners of the County Councils) to underwrite interest on capital and working losses on lines in their districts. In effect local ratepayers got to decide the fate of a line not central government (either directly or indirectly) and this neatly steps around the idea that one place is being disadvantaged at the expense of another.  These subsidies were legislated out of existence in 1924 and taken together with various actions over time including the abolition in the 1980's of domestic house rates had the effect of making Dail Eireann a big county council rather than a national government. (we don't need 160 TDs). It would have been more pertinent a few years back to ask whether the County Councils had any relevance than a referendum of the relevance of the Senate. 

While national strategies are a necessary part of planning infra-structure, local authorities must be properly funded and given proper power to manage their districts according to the wishes of their inhabitants. And funding should not be dolled out by central government, rather some level of funds relative to population size currently raised in each county district should be retained by the councils rather than going directly to the central exchequer.  This redistribution does not necessarily entail an increase in overall taxation.