leslie10646

Absolutely terrific, Angus. Great work. You've no excuse not to run lengthy "Fairs Specials" in N gauge!

After our fun on the Sud Ramp, the other day, We took our aching legs for a long ride on trains over the last two days. Thursday; to Zurich, intending to catch a German IC train to Stuttgart as far as Singen - I'm looking for Class 147 haulage. The Interrail App said that the train had been cancelled, but the train was definitely on the HUGE departure board at Zurich. A train was there, but not five nice white double deckers - the Swiss had turned the incoming train round at Singen and laid on an ERSATZ Zug of 450.060 (new) pushing three blue double deckers as far as Schaffhausen, managing 72max on the way: we continued by EMU to Singen. There we did find a return IC, 147.559 (had it before!) pushing five double deckers. IMG_6194.MOV The line is a mix of single and double in Germany, then restricted by curves on to Zurich. We did 83 before the 53 mph curves and after the Schaffhausen stop, 75 before terminating. By the way, this is First Class in those IC coaches. Compare with the awful seats in a British train! I managed to choose an EMU train back to Bern, but got 460.044 for the second time this trip back to Spiez. Today, Friday, was forecast for 30 degrees, so being on a train seemed a good idea - Swiss air-con is pretty good. First, the 0947hrs bus, seen here at Spiez on arrival - there was one other passenger on the bus! which gave us plenty of time to get 460.082 (old!) with a train of double deckers on the 1023hrs to Romanshorn as far as Zurich (again?). En route, I had a call from my publisher to say that a book which I have compiled was ready to check - so no travel on Monday! The idea was to - find somewhere cheaper to eat than Spiez (CHF 90 would probably be cheap - £80 sterling). The IC was running on time (!), but first an original Re4/4 came in to Platform 14 and posed for the photo! Then we caught the 1237hrs IC (for Stuttgart) as far as Singen. 147.589 was new and did 76 in Switzerland and 86 in Germany! At Singen, the plan was to catch a Regional Express heading for Karlsruhe up the Schwarzwald Bahn which is pretty steep even in some of the early stages. The 146 on the train of four double deckers did 86 before the first stop at Engen, then climbed up the curving track at 55 to Immendingen. We were stopped for an on-coming train to clear the single line on the next section, but then shot off to 86 before Donaueschingen (source of the Danube, of course). I thought that this place would be awash with eateries, but had to ask directions to find the town and a fairly up market hotel which did superb veal Wiener Schnitzel, salad and German Bratkartoffeln as I remember them - washed down by a pint of local Pilsner. Not cheap, but about twenty quid cheaper than Switzerland! We had to get a move on to catch our train, not helped galloping up and down stairs to deal with a last minute change of platform (yes, late-running), so I had to pause to get my breath before walking through the train to the First! 146.238 just managed 87mph before Singen. The incoming train from Stuttgart was a quarter of an hour late, so DB had a set on hand to run the Swiss part of the journey for those joining at Singen. 147.566 was an "old" engine for me and managed 72 before the 55mph curves into Schaffhausen where a mob of people were waiting to join us. I might comment that this station stretches for a couple of kilometres - try modelling that! Now, out past the Rhine Falls: and so to Zurich: Another EMU back to Bern, badly checked, so a bit of a scamper to catch the connection to Spiez which was 460.077 (new!). I jumped on at the Standard class end of a nine single decker coach train and slowly progressed down a very full train. Lots of young Swiss in uniform, going home for the weekend - if you're planning to invade Switzerland - do it at the weekend! Eventually, I got to the first of three First Class coaches, which was nearly empty after the packed coaches in front. The ticket collectors checked our coaches first and enthusiastically ejected half a dozen youngsters who were "trying it on" - every seat has a massive "1" on it, so no real excuse. We touched a hundred mph on the run to Thun, then had a long wait for our bus at Spiez - they're hourly after 8pm! Hard work, but a great day all the same. I'll sleep tonight!

Thanks, Ivan. Duly corrected! You're lucky that I survived to tell the story of today's trek, at several points I was gasping for breath (I have COPD and asthma) and my legs were like jelly, I was so knackered. The BLS (the otherwise admirable Bern Lotschberg Simplon) publish a leaflet encouraging walks by the Nordramp and the Sudramp of their amazing railway - that is the line from Frutigen (near Spiez) up to Kandersteg, through the 14.61kms of the Lotschberg tunnel and then down to Brig - a rise and fall of about 1,500 feet. The well-informed will know that this line has all but been surpassed by the 34.5km long Lotschberg Base Tunnel which cuts out the climb and greatly reduceds journey times. I had walked some bits of the North Ramp twenty years ago, but this was my first (and not to be repeated) try on a part of the South Ramp. The best bit, I am told, if from Hohtenn to Ausserberg, but at 10kms, I deemed that was one to leave until we had got some practice in! Having noted that Ausserberg to Eggersberg was six kilometres, I thought that achievable. Now, the railway is running constantly downhill, but NOT the path. It started with an uphill hike through the village of Ausserberg, then when I thought we were meant to duck under the railway, the signs seemed to point me straight ahead - more uphill. Then I met this: Yes, it means what you think it does, but being properly Irish, I ignored it, stating that it only referred to road vehicles. Up and up we went, following a contour with a sheer drop on one side until we got to this - Yes, that's a GATE and there was no path beyond - in fact if you look carefully, you will see that it is further protected by an electric fence. This was 90 minutes out and we were faced with another ninety back, having achieved little and my legs nearly gave out. I DID manage a poor bit of video - the sun is at right angles on the other side of the train! These are "MIKA" units Class RABe 528, if you prefer, built by Stadler and based on their famous FLIRT units. Built 2021 onwards. The canalised river below is THE RHONE and you can see the brilliant views which you get down into it from trains on the BLS line which remains a monument to the men who had the vision to built it and the many unfortunate (mainly Italians) people who lost their lives on the construction. Mika at Ausserberg.mov One of the tunnel mouths and a stretch of track. It was somewhere near the second photo where I should have left the road and skirted a field on an unmade path, it seems! Never mind, by God's Grace, I survived. After three hours, having fully retraced our steps to Ausserberg station, we caught a train on to Brig and came back the quick way behind 460.087 (had her a couple of days ago) on eight double deckers and five single deckers! Seen at Spiez: first a hefty diesel shunter - then the resident "Thunderbird" Loco: and what is becoming the inevitable "Vectron" on a 32 40ft container train. After that back to domestics like shopping for tea and a second trip by bus to grab another SIX bottles of palatable Rose (from Syrah grapes) for about £3 a bottle - Richard can bring them home in his car! I think I'll try riding a few trains tomorrow - easier on the legs and the nerves!

Thanks @BSGSV for correct the little slip. We'll see what AI makes of it. Now, Paul, you should know better than to put these dreadful stories around - even if two out of the three were perfectly plausible! We Irish need to shout a lot more about Dr Drumm and his trains - they were half a century ahead pop their time, but seem to have worked well enough - did your Dad say anything about them, @jhb171achill?

I'll take a chance. If the Secret Service arrest me meanwhile, having read my stated intentions, I will be chairing the meeting from behind bars!

Thanks, Bob, for that reminder of one of the really great films! Some good railway scenes in it, too! Now, for today. The sun was shining, we caught an earlier bus down to Spiez station than we'd planned, caught an earlier train throughout, so that we were sitting in Murren enjoying a coffee looking over at the Jungfrau before midday. Then off on the walk - to my amazement and after letting my fitness go to pot, I survived the 90 minute walk very well. Of course, it is: a) DOWNHILL, you drop 500 feet in five kilometres; b) You stop after about fifty minutes for soup and a beer and enjoy the views you can see below. c) You speed up over the second part if you think that you might miss the cable car at Grutschalp. First, a bit of film of the little BLM train (two years old, replacing ones which had been there since Adam was a boy) - passing - as every school boy or girl knows - The Eiger, Monch and Jungfrau (left to right). Make sure that your sound is up - nice wheel screech! IMG_6134.MOV Said lunch was taken here - Then a shot on the second part of the walk which is partly among trees: IMG_6143.MOV We did well on the second part of the walk and caught an earlier cable car down to Lauterbrunnen, then the BOB train down to Interlaken where we caught an Intercity back to Spiez - just 4 single deck and eight double deck coaches - haulled by 460.068 (new) and pushed by 460.061 (old). The weather forecast is OK,so maybe another walk with more railway interest tomorrow.

And we're looking forward to YOUR BCDR talk to the IRRS London in January, Patrick. It'll be on Zoom, so everyone of this site should be on-line for a record attendance that night. I'll post the Zoom codes nearer the time!

Good man, @BSGSV, for admitting your typo. As Paul said, we all do it - don't look back through my 2,000 odd posts - my dyslexic typing will be the downfall of me. If you can remember where you posted it, please could you go back and edit the post to say what you meant to say! Then AI will get it right next time! Thanks, too, for pointing out that the appendix listed the "facilities - I believe that the CIE Working Timetables did the same, which is a useful piece of information to have when memory has failed us.

A late start this morning as I was up late watching Match of the Day. The weather forecast for Murren was for clouds and frankly there is no reason to do that walk if you cannot admire the Big Three on the other side of the valley. So Plan B was to do one of the mountain railways which run out of the Rhone Valley and over into France. Having mapped out a route and choosing a suitable bus I found that we made better progress than the Interrail planner thought I would achieve and we ended up on an earlier train in the form of one of the very ugly Class 503 trains which work through to Italy. You can see from the photograph below why I have such a such an aversion to them. Nonetheless the train ran on time we managed a cross-platform connection onto a train heading for Martigny. 460.043 hauled a double decker set and raced along at 99/100 by the river Rhone, as usual absolutely smooth upstairs in these super trains. The South facing slopes of the river valley and indeed most of the valley floor are covered in vineyards, in some places these are terraced thanks to decades of hard labour building them in years gone by. After a stop at Sierre (this is French-speaking Switzerland) we continued to Sion, formerly the seat of the Prince Bishop of Sion who ruled over the whole area; the Bishop’s Palace overlooks the town from a high promontory. A little bit of history here, one of these gentlemen, Matthäus Schiner (born 1465), in time became a cardinal and a military commander. He just missed the top job in the Catholic Church at the conclave of 1522. He later was one of Luther’s judges at Worms. Back to the railway! We descended at Martigny at 1316hrs and having just missed the 1314 train (one connection which the Swiss planners failed to think of), we put our time to good use enjoying a coffee in a cafe opposite the station. In due course the train arrived to form the 1416hrs train to the French border and we joined a busy two car set - obviously brand new. This line was a close cousin of the Giants Causeway Tramway as it made use of an elevated conductor rail alongside the running rails. Most of the line is now overhead catenary but there are sections of third rail as you can see from a photograph below. The line runs level to the workshops at Vernayaz where we stopped. Soon after, the line joins the rack and climbs rapidly above the valley. Having gained a substantial elevation, the railway reverts adhesion while climbing along a contour-hugging course. Should you ever travel on this line I recommend that you sit on the left hand side as after the first 10 minutes or so the view is all on that side. The line climbs higher and higher above the steeply-sided Trient valley. Today when we arrived at the frontier, passengers were informed that the line over the border was closed due to engineering works and that there would be replacement buses. These appear to have been very effectively organised and the passengers off our train were quickly on their way into France. Likewise, before our train returned to Martigny two buses arrived with passengers from France. Below you will find some photographs which show the unit used by us at the frontier station, and a couple of shots on the way down, one of which, if you look carefully, clearly shows the third rail; a video of a nice bridge and a look up the valley to show you a village perched over the precipice. Finally, what I believe is the current collector on the unit. Onwards to France? The station at Chatelard Frontiere. The above-mentioned bridge, complete with much reflection! Bridge near Chatelard.mov The THIRD RAIL - don't touch! A view up the valley. the unit at Martigny. and its conductor show. After this super line on, as you could see, a God-given afternoon we returned to Visp behind 460.043 (again!). A bit of a gallop through the underpass to Platform 4 there to catch 460.113 (first travelled behind in 2023) which traversed the Lotschberg Base Tunnel in 11m40s and got us into Spiez in great time to easily catch the 18.38 bus, which had us back on our balcony by about 1848! Hopefully, the Walk tomorrow!!!!!

A very mixed day, but not without its fun moments!. I decided that as there was a church service in Interlaken, provided by an off-shoot of the Church of England, that I really should go. That meant a 7.30am rise, the 0909hrs bus from outside the door, dead on time, a short wait at Spiez station for the train which turned out to be an ICE4 (that's the fourteen coach version), which took us to Interlaken Ost by 1000hrs.. While I was getting the set number, my other half realised that she had left two of our walking poles in the train. We leapt on (the train terminates here - go any further and you're in Lake Brienz!) - straight to our seats but no poles, they'd already been swept up, but an enquiry sent us in pursuit of the cleaning staff. We met the lady train manager, who smilingly produced them from her office. By now we were in the sidings and there we sat until 1026 (the service began at 1030hrs) when the train set returned to the platform. Off down the main street in search of the church - the Prod church is BEHIND the Catholic one (I can hear you say, "All right and proper") and we slipped into the chapel just as the minister was starting his sermon (based on a bible passage which I had read last night - all part of The Plan?). After our devotions, back to Interlaken Ost to catch a metre gauge train to Giswil, where we hoped to find a steam train. In a Zentral Bahn EMU we whirled along Lake Brienz to Meiringen, where I noted NO sign of a steam locomotive (they use two for the trips, one on the lakeside line and a rack loco on the steep bit!). Instead there was a gleaming older electric in Military Green! Now we reversed onto the Rack section and climbed vertiginously up to Haslefelde, then cautiously down past Lake Lungern, where I noted a train of vintage carriages obviously heading back the way we had come! Steam had been substituted due to fire risk on a line surrounded by woods! I had mixed feelings - I'd missed a "new" steam loco, but had saved a hundred quid (two of us for TEN miles). Swiss steam is unbelievably expensive. Happily I did the whole trip back in 2003 when it certainly didn't cost £110 each for the full trip. So, at Giswil, I extended our tickets to take us on to Luzern and we arrived there after a pleasant journey - this line runs beside a succession of lakes and is recommended. The place was full of EMUs, but after ten minutes a loco-hauled train arrived and was announced as heading next to Basel. 460.044 (a new loco for me to have travelled with) pushed a double decker set, which we took to Olten (Switzerland's Crewe) - no speed greater than 88mph. A nice easy connection there into a train heading to Brig (beyond Spiez, our destination). So down the high speed line to Bern with about ten minutes at 123/4mph. At Bern, we changed trains into an Interlaken train which leaves three minutes before the Brig train - AND - most importantly - stops right beside the bus home at Spiez! 460.114 (new!) pulled a cavalcade of eight double deckers and four single deckers, assisted in the rear by an old friend 460.009. The Swiss stick locos ANYWHERE in a train and drive them from DVTs, so you can get a train with a loco at one end and another in the middle. 18m30s got us to Thun maximum a sustained 99 and the usual 8 minutes or so to Spiez, where a pretty full No.62 bus awaited us. We were in well before 6pm. Coffee and crosswords on the balcony in the sunshine, beneath Niessen. It seldom gets better. A walk tomorrow, as the weather looks ok - but WHAT A WALK! Wait and see.

That's what was behind (underneath) Nelson's GNR Class PG (see Portadown Jct Page 6) - a SECR Class C - bought for under a hundred quid and as you can see runs well on my cattle train.

A feature of Switzerland is that its transport system is INTEGRATED - not just a Sound-bite, but for real. We are staying about 2 miles out of Spiez - at times there are FOUR buses an hour down to the station and if you time it right in your planning, you can be on a train out of Spiez within ten minutes of the bus arriving, often just FIVE - AND YOU CAN RELY ON THE BUS TO BE ON TIME!!! After the rain yesterday, it was bright sun this morning, so I can show you Niessen in all its glory lit by the Eastern sun, as seen from our balcony where I'm typing this now, deafened by cow bells! I decided to add a Track-Bash to my goals for the trip, so at about noon, we headed off to do the branch to LENK in Simmental. I'd last been down there in 2003. This isn't a great map but it may help - Spiez is about half way along the bottom of the Thunersee and we ran along the line marked "BLS" to Zweisimmen which is the junction at bottom left. A "Mika" unit (a six short, articulated vehicle set), No.113. I'll post a piccie of these nice units later. The set arrived from Bern (off the top of the map) as the rear one of three such - the other two were heading straight on to Brig and Domodossola in Italy - so an EIGHTEEN coach train! Being the rear set it could easily reverse and head off onto the standard gauge line to Zweisimmen along a river valley, so lots of curves and no speed but overload of "Chocolate Box Lid Switzerland" - all meadows, trees, barns and grazing. cows. At Zweisimmen, the standard gauge ends and beyond, over the mountains and down to Montreux is the metre gauge Montreux Oberland Bahn (MOB). We changed into a branch metre gauge train to Lenk - about 25 minutes along a pleasant valley. As we left Zweisimmen we got a great view of the premier train of the line - the Golden Pass Panorama Express - climbing up and over a saddle of hills, helped by a hairpin bend in a tunnel, so you see the train on two levels above you (it's just visible on the map). Lenk seems to be a dumping ground for old trains: Our train in the centre, with a graffittied old unit on right. An even older unit had a huge snow plough. We spent the next hour enjoying Carrot and Ginger soup (if you haven't had it, you've missed out!) on a terrasse by a posh hotel (suitably expensive - the waiter was from near Munster in North Germany, by the way) then we retraced our steps, changing into Mika No.109 at Zweisimmen. It had clouded over a bit, but bright weather returned. Now my plan was to use the "other" route from Thun into Bern (the one to the left out of Thun on the map) and I thought that these unit-operated trains went that way - no, up the mainline we raced (helped by Mikas 111 and 117 which we joined onto at Spiez) and this 18 vehicle cavalcade pretended to be a Class 460 as it raced along at 100mph. We returned by the route I'd intended to use - the line which dog-legs into Thun on the map. We arrived punctually in Thun at 1721, straight off, noted the Unit number (MIKA No. 217) and headed briskly down the ramp and up another onto Platform 1 which was solid with folk awaiting the train to Interlaken (off the map at the right hand end of Lake Thun). We excused ourselves past the Schaffnerin (lady ticket collector) and in to the front First Class coach. I managed to get our tickets into the Interrail Pass before she appeared to check us. "Passport please" (oh no, another Jobsworth!). Out came the Irish Id Card (saves carrying the bulkier Passport). I forgot to mention that on leaving St Pancras that we'd used our Irish Passports and so avoided the glass pens for the Brexit-loving Brits, which looked like a good time consummer. 8 minutes 15 seconds later, off the train and headed for our bus which meets this train. I waited on the platform beside the open door of the bus get the loco number as 460.045 (NEW!!!) pushed the double decker set out. Off went the bus up the quicker of the two routes to the village and we were in the flat in UNDER a half hour from getting off the train at Thun at 1721. That's Switzerland for you. They can do it, why can't others? Hopefully at least a sight of steam tomorrow!

Well, we've made it to Switzerland! Even using the Interrail App on my phone, I haven't been thrown off a train yet - but I still prefer paper tickets which you fill in in a moment, the App takes five minutes hard work per trip - not designed for the likes of me who jumps from one train to another, just because I see that the other is hauled by a loco I haven't travelled behind before! The task for this trip is to travel behind as many Swiss Class 460 locos as possible - I've checked off half the Class as things stand., as well as a few new German Class 146/ 147 locos in the Black Forest area. I saw my first class 146 at Frankfurt am Main Hauptbahnhof yesterday - I'd just arrived from Brussels on the 0623 from that city! The 146s work local trains with double decker coach sets, as you can see. Pretty impressive Train shed? - it has about six of these arches covering about 4 platforms each. After enjoying the view, I was less happy to find that my onward ICE train was running 40 minutes late from Berlin - so an hour's wait became two hours plus. Happily we found a sanctuary in the "Markthalle" where there were various outlets and plenty of tables and chairs. The fourteen coach ICE4 (set 9018) eventually arrived, lost more time as it ran south via Mannheim, Karlsruhe, Offenbach and Freiburg. Free travel if you wanted to chance it - no ticket check! Good announcements in German and excellent English - especially the one which told us that the train would terminate at Basel - rather than carry us direct to Spiez. No fun when we each had three bags festooned around us! So we ended up on a Swiss InterCity train which, needless to say, kept perfect time with 460.087, which was "new". so that was all right. Spiez is an important junction, but taxis it has none! So we took the bus up to our holiday place, arriving nearly two hours late. The view, happily, is still as good! The snow-covered peak is the Blumisalp. Very wet today (Friday) - almost Hong Kong level typhoon level rain at one point. Shopping took up the morning, but we squeezed a run to Bern and back with 460s in the afternoon - 460.113 was new, but 460.082 coming back was an old friend first travelled behind 3 years ago. Dinner in Migros, I had to wait for them to open for their evening food service! I thought that I was too late! Then bargain booze in Denner's next door, just CHF19 for SIX bottles of Rose! I'll let you know if it is drinkable, says he G&T in hand ....... The evening DID produce a couple of lovely sights - first a rainbow. and then "Liam's Mountain" - in other words NIESSEN, Switzerland's Pyramid which is almost in the back garden, as you can see. here pretending to be a Volcano thanks to the clouds and the setting sun. Time for bed. Now, where to tomorrow - depends on what time I crawl out of bed - still getting over that 5am start yesterday.

Sorry, Site Co-ordinator - this diversion from the subject is all my fault. Move all these Swiss remarks to a new Thread which I will start when I get to Switzerland - WHEN I get there - the Almighty may have other plans!

NOT if you're with Tesco Mobile! What's an AIRLINE? First Class Interrail isn't cheap but I like my comfort. Then a holiday home at less than a Premier Inn. Paul is right on the nail about using the Supermarkets to eat - the trouble is they close their restaurants at about 4pm and my other half doesn't like to have her "big meal" in the middle of the day. I will be going into Germany in search of more loco-hauled trains, so I will probably eat there some days - much cheaper! Also Germany has a bakery called "Yorma" who do brilliant filled rolls - I recommend their smoked salmon one! The egg one has TWO boiled eggs sliced therein - none of your pathetic British efforts - how did Greggs get their reputation? Roll on later in the week!

Paul, Google will tell you that 2508 was built for the Cashel branch. I suspect that the info was lifted by Google's AI from a post on this site by @BSGSV last year - so maybe he can tell you? John O'Meara's article doesn't mention it - or at least my skim read of the article didn't pick it up! John relates closure as 16 January 1954 - as stated in CIE's Weekly Notice - the IRRS has a full run of those in the "Holy of Holies' in the Library (yet another reason to be a member!). Lifting was tardy - there were a few trains after that date, recounted by John - and by 1961 only a spur existed at the Goold's Cross end and was in use to store wagons awaiting scrapping.

Actually, Paul, I'd forgotten this - I'd have to buy three more coaches, of course! I HAVE another Hunslet - almost as noisy as my sound-fitted one - the other one is BLUE and from our friend John - I could buy the rest of the rake in grey / blue? Don't encourage me, I'm of to Switzerland where there's a shop in St Gallen where you could bankrupt the British Treasury, never mind yourself!

Ah, no, Paul - one's enough! I spend five hundred quid last night and a hundred the other day with these chaps, so that's enough for now? Quite what my offspring are going to do with this stuff, I've no idea .......

I went on to get a Mark 2 rake in Maroon, BUT I was too late to get a BDTS Driving Trailer in Maroon! So, I'll have to run round the train. Crazy ....... Help!

Well spotted, Tractionman! They were selling out as I looked, but I quickly grabbed enough to make a civilised train!

Sorry, I've come late to this party - others have given you excellent information. A file containing the Journal in question is yours for a small donation to the Society. The Cashel article has 15 pages and several photos which show something of the layout and buildings - very basic and cheap! PM sent. Good luck with the project. Leslie

Nah, got that one - another noisy little "Silver" thing, which looks OK. BUT - an E Class would be something else ........ I remember them well - the tented variety and the "normal". By way of a PS, you guys at Accurascale realise that you sell three times as many "C"s as B1a?

This is very good news for you youngsters. My Silver Fox C Class will be adequate for me - I'll be 82 (DV) when the iRM one comes out - and it's sound-fitted already - noisiest loco on the layout thanks to whatever John planted the body on. John has done us older guys a big service in that he produced reasonable replicas of Irish locos long before anyone else.

Hi Paul I assume that you've got Richard McLachlan's scans of the IRRS Archive set of the drawings? You realise that now that you have announced your intentions that IRM will announce theirs for delivery RTR, with sound, lights, passengers and ten liveries by Christmas (although not saying which year).

Well spotted, Paul. Someone had been careless at Amiens Street, it appears? The Express did carry Bundoran Express roof boards, although I cannot find a photo which CLEARLY shows that, even in the excellent Fermanagh's Railways book. There was a through coach from Belfast, which attached/detached at Clones - replacing the buffet car, which awaited the return service! The double-headed "New" U Class is a find. As Stevie says above, long may you continue to enthrall us with such views!