Rob R

Cattle Wagons Mr Sprinks says there were 68 7 ton and 2 6 ton Cattle Wagons at the end. Photos show a bewildering variety of designs and details when you take a closer look, so bite sized chunks is the way to go I think, so first off:- Open Cattle Wagons (Crate Wagons) The IRRS SL&NCR wagon compendium has just one Cattle Wagon drawing, Standard Covered Cattle Wagon, signed off by Mr Sparks 19/11/20. On this drawing there is a note:- "Brake gear, Underframe Ironwork and Corner Straps, etc to be re-used for all Crate Wagons (Nos 36 to 65) re-built to this design" So we know that in 1920 there were 30 Open Cattle wagons numbered in one block and a plan to rebuild to a standard design. I suspect with the departure of Mr Sparks that plan, to an extent, fell by the wayside. The majority seem to have been rebuilt, but not necessarily to the intended design and I will deal with them in the next installment. Photos of Sligo Open Cattle wagons are a bit thin on the ground but Ernie has come to the rescue again (thank you). This wonderful Casserley view of Hazelwood in 1929 is the best view I have found showing the number, 52 in this case. I am very grateful that Manorhamilton copied the GNR practice of placing the number on the ends as well as the side! The other view which is dated 22nd April 1953 does not show the number but the details differ enough to presume it is not the same vehicle and there is a photo of what may be 52 as rebuilt in the next installment. Taken the same day Rebuilt Open Cattle wagons next (as and when)

Following on from the excellent talk last night I thought I would post up what little I have gathered about the wagonry of the erstwhile SL&NCR. I have no primary sources, just the late Mr Sprink's books and keen eye when trawling through the internet. The IRRS of course does have a small selection of Manorhamilton drawings available in the SLNCR Wagon Compendium, absolutely invaluable but as is so often the way with these it raises almost as many questions as it answers! I suspect most, if not all the SLNCR goods vehicles were rebuilt, probably more than once, so it is likely that there were 153 unique and very individual wagons at the end. I am slowly compiling a spread sheet,trying to match numbers to wagon types as well as indexing known photos. It will be some time before this is anything like presentable but in the meantime I will try and outline the different varieties of wagons that were running in the SLNCR last 30 years or so. The starting point for any research is the list of extant wagons at closure to be found in the Sprinks history. This gives an overview of the surviving wagons and their numbers but only breaks things down to a basic description such as Opens, Cattle, Vans etc. II must thank Ernie for his excellent collection of SLNCR photos on Flickr and I hope he doesn't mind if I use a few here. To start with I will pick the low hanging fruit - the Open wagons. The Sprinks list gives the numbers of the surviving 30 vehicles and from photos I have identified 6 more which faded from the scene before the end. I have identified 6 types of open wagons including the 6 wheel P Way wagons. The numbers quoted below are those I have confirmed from photographic evidence. 4 1/2 ton 3 plank No 1 Illustrated in the Sprinks album 7 ton 3 plank Nos 3, 7, 9, 23 7 ton 3 plank dropside Nos 143, 145, 148 7 ton 4 plank Nos 3, 67, 133, 134, 137, 139, 196, 198 Note the buffers differ to the unidentified example above. 7 ton 3 plank drop end "Flat Truck for Road Vehicles" No 201 possibly more, an unidentified vehicle shown here. Similar to, possibly modified from, the 3 plank. The chain on the end door latch is clearly visible. Drawing has only 1 side post, this (and possibly 197) has 2. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507893712/in/album-72177720314924700 201 - seems to match the drawing https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507892097/in/album-72177720314924700 Possibly 197 The IRRS Drawing Compendium has the Manorhamilton GA of these vehicles. 6w P Way Nos 5, 25 No 5 illustrated in the Spinks history book and else where. The IRRS Drawing Compendium has the Manorhamilton GA of these vehicles. That's it for now. Please feel free to add anything else you can and please don't hold your breath for the next installment because vans and cattle seem to be a lot more complicated. Rob

Thank you Leslie.

Leslie, is this being recorded for access later? Might miss the start

Thank You Ernie, First photos of wagons 2 and 58 on my spreadsheet.

I suspect it is one of the 4-4-0 tanks before rebuilding to 4-4-2t and later 4-6-0t as per this slightly distorted view

I was thinking it was a bit of an odd looking armoured car but fire engine fits much better. Fire pump would be a better description maybe.

Cracking views West Cork. You don't happen to have any more you could share with us please?

From here Drimoleague and also at Bantry (don't know the source of this one) I think there is also a builders photo in the Ernie Shepherd book but I haven't got access to it at the moment. The coach I think is one of the ex DNGR 4 wheelers that lasted quite late (WW2 ish)

Another one I found on FB just now Cork City Railway 1960's

What are you using for couplings? If it is Kadees or tension locks then buffer spacing will only be a visual issue (but well worth doing). For the likes of 3 link or Alex Jacksons then you will need the buffers at the same centres as your rolling stock ( who's warranty you violated voided some time ago....) I am sure someone somewhere could 3dp them.

Might want to consider bringing the layouts' own lighting forward in the build plan. That way you can paint to suit the light rather than lighting to suit the paint.

Are the Kosmik prints not bull head?

Take a look at the Bachmann spares web site. Full range of bits, fairly priced available by return of post. (Sorry, can't do linky thing off my phone, will edit later when I get home) Usual disclaimers. On buffer spacing, it should not be too hard to do 2 different versions of a 3dp loco body, buffers at oo spacing and buffers where they should be. These things tend to be print to order so extra costs are minimal.

The NLI have a few of Ballysodare as well. (Various spellings.....) https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000041947 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000326586 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000317056 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000317055

Don't forget to seal both sides of the backscene.

I mentioned this in another thread earlier but this is the proper place to do it. The access to the Resources Section has been tweaked and it is now only visible to Logged In members. Checked ok I think also posts do not now need moderator approval before becoming visible to all logged in members. I will test and check. Checked ok Between us, the Resouces Section can become a really useful place for all of us with an interest in modelling Irish Railways. Rob

Westcork, That's great! Could you put these in the Resouces section please? Makes it easier to find in the future.

Just added some WLR Building drawings from the late Richard Chown into the Resources section. I believe that the Mods have tweaked the settings on the Resouces section so that only Logged in Members can see it. A bye product of that seems to be that postsno longer need Approval before you can see them. Win-win all round in my book. Once again, apologies for the crappy phone snaps. Will redo them properly one day. Enjoy Rob

They would also pass nicely as "typical Irish" wagons that a lot of steam era Irish modellers would be happy with. If only there were such decent drawings/photos of early Irish Brake Vans................(MGWR and BNCR excepted)

The composite view is quite common with 19th century rollingstock GA's. It enables the one drawing to show how everything is arranged, think of it as an assembly drawing, the parts being manufactured to other component level drawings. Anyone taking bets on when IRM will bring one out? I have not seen those photos before, there again I haven't been looking for C&MDR cattle trucks. Here is 103 in a view I found on the interweb somewhere. Apologies if it causes copyright issues, if it does I'll take it down.

As mentioned a while ago on the Colm Creedon thread, I have posted a few bits on the Resources section from the collection of the late Richard Chown. The gods mods have approved so they are now visible to all. There are GA drawings of a traditional centre roof door Goods and Cattle Wagon and a Covered Cattle and Goods Wagon of a later type (Nos108, 109, 110. possibly others - need to look at the drawing in the flesh again). Also there is a drawing of a pair of 6 wheeled coaches, more of a dimensioned sketch but with the faint trace of the Capwell drawing "office" stamp. I know the C&MDR had some coaches from the GSWR of Waterford, Dungarvan &Lismore Railway origin. May these be some of them? Enjoy C&MDR wagons C&MDR coaches

Glossy is best for the lettering to stick then squirt it with some matt varnish after.

Passed tthis on the way home yesterday, didn't have time to investigate so here is the Google Streetview image. Between Castlewellan and Kilcoo on the A25 What is inteesting is that it appeared there between May 2016 and October 2021.(look at the "see more dates")

If you prefer to use rattle can paints then Volvo "Dark Grey" is fairly well known for reproducing a weathered black. Paul, I wouldn't worry too much about square ended axles (unless you are using Romfords). If you can find a suitable set of Gibsons, or even Sharmans - second hand or from PPP - quartering is a doddle. Just make sure that the frame and coupling rod centres are the same which you would have to do for the Romfords anyway. Then just look through the wheels and line up the spokes and tweak as required. They don't have to be exactly 90 deg for an electric loco as long as they are all the same.