Rob R

Just noticed. The drawing of the High side wagon shows 5 planks. The unidentified wagon to the right of 143 that I posted above shows a 5 plank end whereas almost all the later views of these wagons show 4 wider planks.

The "low sided flat wagon" drawing posted by Antony on my SLNCR wagons thread has a note "No5 Altered to Wigan Doors". The 3 plank dropside ballast wagon drawing is annotated "Wigan Wagons" and the wagon partially visable on the far left of the Brake Van No 1 view appears to have a full length 2 plank dropside door grafted onto it. Could this be No 5? We would be a lot poorer without Ernie and his photos. Thank You.

Antony, Thank you very much. An absolute gold mine. When the dust has settled do you mind if I copy them into a dedicated thread in the resources section so they are easier to find in the future? The SL&NCR is rapidly becoming one of the best documented Irish lines.

They certainly look like someone wanted Vac Fitted (they have Vac Cylinders, not just through pipes) cattle wagons on the cheap. A traditional sized body on a re-purposed, already fitted underframe. No doubt the paper work that would help us identify the thought processes behind this batch went up in smoke back in 1941. Different, would make an interesting model.

Thank you Ernie, Van 100 is a new one for the list and a much better view of 59. The Sparks "Standard Cattle Wagon" drawing shows 2 stanchions per quarter panel as per 59 and 117 but that was going to be part 3..... Please keep them coming. If only we could go back for a day with a digital camera and a flipping great big memory card..............(and batteries!) Mol-PB you have of course spotted the elephant in the room. Sprinks mentions that the number 27 appears on a cattle wagon and a van but here we have a pair of 132 cattle wagons.

The HMRS drawing of the Waterford and Limerick "Iron Cattle Wagon Underframe" of 1894 shows 14ft over Headstocks on a 8ft 6in wheelbase. The MGWR open cattle wagon of 1894 is 14ft 2in over headstocks on a 8ft wheelbase. The C&MDR cattle wagon (undated) is 15ft 8 over headstocks on a 9ft 2in wheelbase. The "standard" Sligo cattle wagon wasn't much different to the norm.

Mr Spark's "Standard Cattle Wagon" drawing of 1920 gives a 9ft wheelbase, 15ft 6in over headstocks and 11ft 1 1/2 high. Not huge but not unusually small either. The "Standard Wagon Underframe" drawing is pretty much the same, with a note that it was also used on the "Crate Wagons" ie open cattle. Obviously it would be a bit rash to say all SLNCR cattle wagons were the same, but as Ernie kindly shows below, old age and saggy springs also play a part.

If you must start from a rtr one then cutting down a hornby LMS BV might be easier (and cheaper!). No use to me, I need something 119% bigger....

There seems to be a bit of optical distortion on the photo of 57. The wheels are not round by a fair margin with the whole wagon appearing shorter than it really is.

That is just outside the GNR Enniskillen locoshed, so I would have thought that it is more likely ex-GNR (or a constituent). I think it was the GSWR/GSR that trashed the SLNCR original horsebox, hence the WLWR replacement.

Cattle Wagons Mr Sprinks says there were 68 7 ton and 2 6 ton Cattle Wagons at the end. Photos show a bewildering variety of designs and details when you take a closer look, so bite sized chunks is the way to go I think, so first off:- Open Cattle Wagons (Crate Wagons) The IRRS SL&NCR wagon compendium has just one Cattle Wagon drawing, Standard Covered Cattle Wagon, signed off by Mr Sparks 19/11/20. On this drawing there is a note:- "Brake gear, Underframe Ironwork and Corner Straps, etc to be re-used for all Crate Wagons (Nos 36 to 65) re-built to this design" So we know that in 1920 there were 30 Open Cattle wagons numbered in one block and a plan to rebuild to a standard design. I suspect with the departure of Mr Sparks that plan, to an extent, fell by the wayside. The majority seem to have been rebuilt, but not necessarily to the intended design and I will deal with them in the next installment. Photos of Sligo Open Cattle wagons are a bit thin on the ground but Ernie has come to the rescue again (thank you). This wonderful Casserley view of Hazelwood in 1929 is the best view I have found showing the number, 52 in this case. I am very grateful that Manorhamilton copied the GNR practice of placing the number on the ends as well as the side! The other view which is dated 22nd April 1953 does not show the number but the details differ enough to presume it is not the same vehicle and there is a photo of what may be 52 as rebuilt in the next installment. Taken the same day Rebuilt Open Cattle wagons next (as and when)

Following on from the excellent talk last night I thought I would post up what little I have gathered about the wagonry of the erstwhile SL&NCR. I have no primary sources, just the late Mr Sprink's books and keen eye when trawling through the internet. The IRRS of course does have a small selection of Manorhamilton drawings available in the SLNCR Wagon Compendium, absolutely invaluable but as is so often the way with these it raises almost as many questions as it answers! I suspect most, if not all the SLNCR goods vehicles were rebuilt, probably more than once, so it is likely that there were 153 unique and very individual wagons at the end. I am slowly compiling a spread sheet,trying to match numbers to wagon types as well as indexing known photos. It will be some time before this is anything like presentable but in the meantime I will try and outline the different varieties of wagons that were running in the SLNCR last 30 years or so. The starting point for any research is the list of extant wagons at closure to be found in the Sprinks history. This gives an overview of the surviving wagons and their numbers but only breaks things down to a basic description such as Opens, Cattle, Vans etc. II must thank Ernie for his excellent collection of SLNCR photos on Flickr and I hope he doesn't mind if I use a few here. To start with I will pick the low hanging fruit - the Open wagons. The Sprinks list gives the numbers of the surviving 30 vehicles and from photos I have identified 6 more which faded from the scene before the end. I have identified 6 types of open wagons including the 6 wheel P Way wagons. The numbers quoted below are those I have confirmed from photographic evidence. 4 1/2 ton 3 plank No 1 Illustrated in the Sprinks album 7 ton 3 plank Nos 3, 7, 9, 23 7 ton 3 plank dropside Nos 143, 145, 148 7 ton 4 plank Nos 3, 67, 133, 134, 137, 139, 196, 198 Note the buffers differ to the unidentified example above. 7 ton 3 plank drop end "Flat Truck for Road Vehicles" No 201 possibly more, an unidentified vehicle shown here. Similar to, possibly modified from, the 3 plank. The chain on the end door latch is clearly visible. Drawing has only 1 side post, this (and possibly 197) has 2. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507893712/in/album-72177720314924700 201 - seems to match the drawing https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507892097/in/album-72177720314924700 Possibly 197 The IRRS Drawing Compendium has the Manorhamilton GA of these vehicles. 6w P Way Nos 5, 25 No 5 illustrated in the Spinks history book and else where. The IRRS Drawing Compendium has the Manorhamilton GA of these vehicles. That's it for now. Please feel free to add anything else you can and please don't hold your breath for the next installment because vans and cattle seem to be a lot more complicated. Rob

Thank you Leslie.

Leslie, is this being recorded for access later? Might miss the start

Thank You Ernie, First photos of wagons 2 and 58 on my spreadsheet.

I suspect it is one of the 4-4-0 tanks before rebuilding to 4-4-2t and later 4-6-0t as per this slightly distorted view

I was thinking it was a bit of an odd looking armoured car but fire engine fits much better. Fire pump would be a better description maybe.

Cracking views West Cork. You don't happen to have any more you could share with us please?

From here Drimoleague and also at Bantry (don't know the source of this one) I think there is also a builders photo in the Ernie Shepherd book but I haven't got access to it at the moment. The coach I think is one of the ex DNGR 4 wheelers that lasted quite late (WW2 ish)

Another one I found on FB just now Cork City Railway 1960's

What are you using for couplings? If it is Kadees or tension locks then buffer spacing will only be a visual issue (but well worth doing). For the likes of 3 link or Alex Jacksons then you will need the buffers at the same centres as your rolling stock ( who's warranty you violated voided some time ago....) I am sure someone somewhere could 3dp them.

Might want to consider bringing the layouts' own lighting forward in the build plan. That way you can paint to suit the light rather than lighting to suit the paint.

Are the Kosmik prints not bull head?

Take a look at the Bachmann spares web site. Full range of bits, fairly priced available by return of post. (Sorry, can't do linky thing off my phone, will edit later when I get home) Usual disclaimers. On buffer spacing, it should not be too hard to do 2 different versions of a 3dp loco body, buffers at oo spacing and buffers where they should be. These things tend to be print to order so extra costs are minimal.

The NLI have a few of Ballysodare as well. (Various spellings.....) https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000041947 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000326586 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000317056 https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000317055