jhb171achill

I went through some material I have last night to see what was visible in photos of wagons. No photo I saw had a plate even remotely like that. With a number that high, it cannot be a locomotive obviously, nor a carriage; in any event, MGWR carriages had a very distinctive type of plate, totally different from those in every way - shape, print font, the lot - and ALL carriages ones had "MGWR" on them. Thus, if it is genuine it can only be off a wagon. Wagons seem not to have had cast plates on the chassis at all - instead they had only the painted numbers on the sides. I have seen no photo which shows any sort of wagon plate. As I suggested earlier the only likelihood is that it is off some very non-standard vehicle. Such things did exist - at one stage I had what I suspect was a one-off GNR(I) plate for a rebuild of a wagon in 1940. It was made of lead rather than cast iron too, but had a proven provenance as genuine - jhb171Senior wrenched it off a scrapper in Dundalk in the 1960s. Indeed, yes - the actual number of this thing is indeed plausible - the Midland had vast numbers of cattle trucks which would push up numbers. When the GSR and later CIE cast plates with the "M" suffix, they were of their standard "D" shaped design, with "GSR" or "CIE" on them rather than MGWR (with or without the "I"!)......

It does LOOK genuine; if it's a dud it's a very good one. Yes, the Midland could have had numbers that high - but my concern is the "(I)" bit after "MGWR". The OFFICIAL name of the company was, note order of wording, the "Midland Great Western of Ireland Railway Company"; not the "Midland Great Western Railway of Ireland". Thus, strictly, if the "I" is to be included, one would be inclined to think it would translate into initials as "MGW(I)R". It was normal on MGWR carriage plates and other notices, trespass signs and the like to use simply "MGWR". I would prefer to see this thing in the flesh, as it were, in order to deremine its authenticity or lack thereof; as of now, the jury's out. It is possible it was off one of those imported Belgian wagons - like General Motors' 1976 livery for the 071s, which was arong in several ways from the actual CIE livery of the day, and the "flying snail" on the control desk of NIR's three 071s, it's possible that a "foreign" manufacturer got the details wrong - but that's on the assumption that it was they, rather than Broadstone, who cast these plates in the first instance.

Looks great! Very West-Corkish......... (or Waterford-Macmine-ish...)!

I was asked recently by an esteemed fellow member of here about what older passenger rolling stock might be suitable (possibly with a 3D print in mind) for layouts set in the post-1955 period up to the present, and where they might have operated, and in what circumstances. In the late 1940s CIÉ did a massive purge of older wooden stock, resulting in the elimination of most types beyond MGWR and GSWR standards. DSER stock, in particular, took a big hit - although the GSR had been drafting "foreign" stock into the DSER since the late 1920s - many MGWR six-wheelers on the Harcourt St line and GSWR main line types on the Amiens St - Wexford route. By 1955, the Park Royals were appearing, and within the next few years a large amount of varying types of laminates and their derivitaves, rebuilt early 1950s stock, and tin vans by the squillion - the latter replacing older six-wheel passenger brakes in many places. By 1960 and shortly afterwards, now many branch lines were closing. All of this meant a sharp decline in the late 1950s in older stock, but very many still remained in use up to and following the end of steam in 1963, into the "black'n'tan" era, and on into the mid-1970s; the VERY last wooden stock, including one or two non-corridor types, appear to have been withdrawn in 1974, by now confimed to Dublin peak hour traffic and the odd Cork-Youghal excursion. Six-wheelers which carried passengers were last seen in traffic in early 1963. However, several (I think six) six-wheeled full passenger brakes remained in traffic, the last couple ending up in black'n'tan (the only six-wheelers ever to do so) and surviving until 1968-70. All of these six or so were ex-GSWR types; one, as a convert to a brake first, is No. 69 preserved at Downpatrick. Hardly any two of those which were in use in the mid to late 1950s were precisely identical, especially the bogies. There were many, many one-off alterations and rebuilds over the years. Some of these vehicles were seventy years old and more, and still in daily use. Therefore, on the face of it, where does one start when deciding what is a good "typical" model of an all-too-necessary WOODEN coach for a 1950s or 60s layout? If we look at the different lines, and what was to be seen on them, we get a reasonable answer - MGWR six-wheeled 2nds and 3rds, and GSWR six-wheel passenger brakes; and in the world of bogies, GSWR side corridor composites and non-corridor 2nds and 3rds. By the late 1950s, a typical branch set on many lines was a GSWR bogie as above, with a tin van or two (one LV, one HV) topping and tailing it; thus, the guard could switch ends at the terminus. The north & south Wexford branches, Kenmare, Valentia Harbour, the West Cork branch lines, Loughrea, Ballina, Ballinrobe and Ballaghaderreen often had a make-up like this. Before the railcars the West Cork main line often had a similar consist, albeit with an old MGWR bogie apparently resident for some time at Albert Quay also; this set tended to be two bogies and a van. On the main line, GSWR bogies, albeit corridor ones, were still commonplace amongst main line and secondary trains, in amongst Bredins, Park Royals, laminates and even Cravens in the 1960s. The Cork line also had quite a few old GSWR bogie and six-wheel mail vans - the bogie ones lasting well into the 1960s. Few MGWR bogies seem to have made it into the diesel / black'n'tan era; there were a few, but GSWR stock ruled the roost in this category. On the other hand, MGWR types dominated in later days (up to 1963) amongst the passenger-carrying six-wheelers. These tended to run with ex-GSWR passenger brakes. Thus, if typical wooden stock is sought after by modellers, inasmuch as anything could be termed "typical"; we must look at three types: Up to 1963: 6-wheel MGWR 2nd & 3rd, 6-wheel GSWR passenger brake and GSWR bogie composite; all green. 1963-74: One of two GSWR 6-wheel passenger brakes, GSWR bogie composite, both black'n'tan. AS suggested, this is neither definitive nor absolute; there were a small few other types, but most wooden-bodied survivors tended to be of these types.

I thought Henry Casserley took that one?

An excellent piece of work, indeed. Joe would be one of a small band of people who would be absolute authorities on latter-day UTA and NIR steam, a much-neglected topic in our railway history.

Ah! OK - I had forgotten............... so circa 2012 maybe.

That 90 is a beauty. Mark tells me he can do it in either 00 or 0 scale. Tell me more about the MGWR coaches you have in mind! A GSWR side corridor bogie composite would also be a good addition to a 1950s / 60s layout. As six-wheeler numbers reduced after a pogrom of older types in 1949 (including most DSER ones), these bogies began to appear on branch lines and secondary lines, even in deep MGWR territory. They were commonplace, if not often the norm in branch sets at Ballinrobe, Ballaghaderreen, Ballina, Loughrea, Kenmare, Valentia Harbour, everywhere in Wisht Caark that still had a passenger service, Mallow-Waterford, Waterford-Rosslare and Waterford-Macmine.

Very realistic Just a livery question; when did IE start painting bogies black (with little blue, green or yellow bits)? Maybe ten years ago? Anyone? And related, on the subject of “modern image” - when did they start painting the tops of Bell containers white? They were dark blue at first…. Just curious.

Pure accident, David; the dusk light may claim the credit. I had got some bits for the scenery and it just happened to be past daylight when I left them up to the attic, so I just took those pics there and then to see what they would look like!

Hi Johnny Thats great news - 4 x 8 will give you an excellent start. Forgot to add - one of our esteemed members here does a kit for a GSWR signal cabin, and there’s also a model of Carlow station (GSWR) available. Someone here will provide links perhaps - must try to look it up.

Yes - educational indeed! One of its many "wow factor" qualities.

Looks just like a Harold Fayle photo found in the depths of the IRRS' catacombs!

Wow! Yet another masterpiece! The scenery, the rolling stock, the setting, the concept; absolutely perfect stuff.

Hypothetically they could, yes; albeit with some adjustment, perhaps, to various connections. The De Deitrichs are actually an adaptation of a design originally intended for electric haulage. However, as others suggest, I believe the future of railways here is hybrids at least, or more likely in the very long term, once the technology is suitable, battery-electric. Dr. Drumm was WAY ahead of his time. Distances in Ireland are short by international standards. Freight traffic is small, and since these trains operate in almost permanently fixed formations, battery-electric freight multiple units would seem to be the logical way forward - and that's if there will be any freight at all in the future. Despite all the fine talk, the NTA's attitude to rail freight seems to be a carbon copy of the UTA in the 1960s. NTA, UTA, same. Thus, expect to see the Irish Rail network in years to become as NIR is now, has been, and will be for evermore. Amen. Railcar heaven; a 5 fut 3 Luas. Maintenance by increasingly sophisticated yellow things, rather than loco-hauled maintenance trains. Therefore, I agree with the post above that the 071s and 201s will carry on, probably until the last of them falls to bits or they can't get spare parts. I doubt there will be a new fleet of locos of any hue, to be honest. Not complaining or praising such an idea; just stating what appears to me to be the obvious, whether any of us like it or not......... an evolving modern railway is better than none at all.

All is quiet on a September evening at dusk at Dugort Harbour in 1965. The sky is about to empty. Nobody about until the morning, but our gricer photographer has free reign - the gates lie open all the time, as they have done for years. The night watchman is at home listening to the wireless, the kettle simmering on the range. Tomorrow, B165 will assemble a short goods train and head up to town.

If it’s 1910-30, the livery is easy - plain grey locos, no lining (or lined black, a la LNWR). Carriages a very dark brown brownish maroon - the LMS-style maroon didn’t appear until the mid-30s.

A fascinating period indeed - I wish you the very best with it. What size is your table?

Gotta be Fintona!

Those look perfect!

What scale is it? I'll be slaughtered by traditionalists, but I quite like that model.........

A pretty good model for its day; its rejuvenation will be a great job - especially in your hands!

Worth adding, when jhb171Senior was in Enniskillen, he was very friendly with both the SLNCR's general manager (G W Egan) & Traffic Manager (E W Mongahan). The latter was perpetually sorely embarrassed by the state of their passenger stock and preferred the railcar (B). The old railbuses were clapped out too and to Monaghan equally embarrassing! As a result, at every opportunity he could, if there was a loco-hauled special, he would prefer to borrow equally elderly ex-MGWR six-wheelers from CIE in Sligo, as they were better looked after and more presentable to the public, or an elderly bogie or two from the GNR's spare stock at Clones! As it happens, I am unaware of any CIE bogie stock, let alone corridor stock, ever traversing the line. There's a nice shot in one of Charles Friel's books of an excursion arriving in Enniskillen off the SLNCR with two MGWR 6-wheelers (in CIE green) in the midst of it. So Enniskillen did see its "flying snails" on more than wagons! A few more years and who knows - a Crossley or Sulzer diesel?

I love the "distressed maroon" on the coach! In later years, there were three categories of "livery" on at least two of their coaches - bare, faded bleached wood where all paint had long peeled off, and damp was getting into the timber; twenty layers of dull brake dust; and what was left of the maroon paint, now faded to a nondescript pinkish-brown! There was just one coach which got a nice new coat of the dark maroon towards the end - one of the bogies. Great description of the 07:20, though why on earth there was black smoke while ON a gradient is a puzzle - any fireman worth his salt would have put on a fire going downhill, not uphill! That's an amazing model of the whole train - it captures the down-at-heel look of the railway in its later days perfectly. It would be interesting to see a decent selection of pictures of when everything was pristine and new, though it didn't last long. Yes, a layout is needed now!

Very nice!!