jhb171achill

Could be, Andy; there's not one rule without an exception! Twas all the theory of some psychologist, I think; I don't remember the rest of the article though it made interesting reading and whether by accident or design would fit three generations of my clan....... maybe not others.....

They're in my garage, gentlemen. I'm keeping them for when the Achill line is reopened...... they will go along with 800 there very nicely. I just LOVE mushrooms!

I think it was taken about 1956. It is indeed that bridge.

Withdrawn; going to a museum.

I read an article years and years ago somewhere which examined the psychology of those who follow hobbies in general. Apparently, hobbies which deal in the past - anything historical - and much of model railwaying falls squarely into this category - will commonly be based in, or find primary interest in, a period immediately before the enthusiast was born. This is because we see adventure in this as we did not yet know it, and yet it is comparatively recent so we can relate to it. What do ye all think of that! It's true! My earliest years of "railway consciousness" were the early 1960s. I can remember a 121 newly painted black'n'tan from grey, NCC and GNR steam, AEC railcars as if it was yesterday, and trips on the Ardee and Loughrea branches. Cattle trucks, goods yards, the smell of creosote on timber sleepers on a hot day....and so on. Green Dublin buses, green UTA buses.... UTA crests and flying snails on all things that moved, parcels being loaded and unloaded from elderly vans tagged onto the back of passenger trains, old wooden station bookstalls, whistles, the ding-ding and clanking of signal box levers.... ....and THAT is my modelling era! A 1922-based MGWR layout, mouthwatering though it might be, is just a bit too "previous" for someone of my vintage, though jhb171Senior would have loved it. And DD sets, Mk 2, 3 and 4 carriages, 201s and 071s....for ME......sorry..... too modern. Ten a penny. Listen all ye younger ones; and remember where ye heard it first. There will come a day, saith the Sage, when YOU will wax lyrical about the 40th anniversary of the good old Mk.4 carriages, Gawd rest 'em, and you will save for the €565 fare for the run to Greystones with the last surviving preserved ICR, repainted in its original silver and whatever it is. And you will look at the day's 300 miles per hour woodchip-powered 7000 class DMUs running on the train line from Dublin (Trainstation) to Belfast (Bus station) and think "why make a model out of THAT?". Now, to my friends here on this board of a certain vintage, back me up? I can't be the only one who dribbles at the sight of a silver "C" shunting cattle trucks, a filthy J15 with green six-wheelers, or an AEC set with two cars in UTA green and one still in blue and cream! And snoozes every time a 2600 goes to Cobh, and a 3000 goes to Londonderry / Derry / Stroke City / Derrylondon.

It's great to see, now that the "black and tan" era is beginning to be well covered, the "grey, green and silver" era being taken on board properly.

There's quite a lot available. There were some ex-GSWR six wheelers on it - Worsley do nice kits. Leslie's wagons are perfect, and the GNR cattle wagon would do. One GNR wooden coach still in brown ended up there. "C" class diesels, of course, too, and Bandon tanks and the J26 ex-Midland tank, for which there's also a kit. Corrugated wagons and wooden ones, H vans..... a Park Royal would suit as a railcar centre car (or a laminate) - would make the railcar set more realistic.

The whole thing looks ever more like a committee-designed dog's dinner..... what a mess. Incidentally, anyone know if Fry's daughter is still alive?

Brilliant, Nelson - we see far too few six wheelers on layouts and yet they were the majority of coaches surprisingly shorts times ago. What is the type of carriage you are modelling? Presumably BNCR (or BCDR?) given the straight sides?

Looking very promising! What locos and rolling stock are planned? The carriages alone will be an interesting collection!

Very well done.....tip...on wagons, chassis, wheels, couplings, etc., usually pretty heavily weathered. The body would always be less weathered than this. The roofs quite heavily weathered too... Great job!

I was at that as a paying rubbernecker.....I think some of Fry's models were on display.

All bilingual signs were post-1925. The GSR ones were black with white lettering, usually contained within a wooden or concrete framing and surround but sometimes screwed to dies of station buildings or signal cabins. The English-only one you mention, Phil, would be C & L origin possibly, but possibly also very early GSR. Most C & L were navy blue enamel with white letters, same as the MGWR, and obviously were English only. So, in terms of time scale, any time really. The line was opened in 1887 and closed in 1959. By the end, many GSR enamels were in place, but not all stations had them. I have an idea that Mohill had a bilingual sign too - if you are certain the photo you speak of was in the 50's - and beware the very frequent inaccuracy in dating old photos - then there was probably one pre-1925 C & L example and one GSR (obviously post-1925).

The large bilingual black enamel signs with white lettering were a GSR product. None of the earlier companies had anything bilingual. On some lines, including obscure narrow gauge places like Schull, Ballydehob, Moyasta or Mohill, these new signs appeared very quickly (though Ballinamore had its original navy enamel C & L sign until the end). On other GSR lines, the standard GSR enamel type never appeared; Abbeyfeale had its old wooden WLWR sign right until after closure, having survived ownership by the GSR and CIE. Older wooden ones which did survive over the years, in GSR times and early CIE times were all painted black with letters and rims picked out in white. From the mid 1960s when the new plastic CIE ones appeared, with both languages in the same Roman font, older ones (like at Mallow above) were repainted with colours inverted, i.e. black on white instead of white on black. Old yellow UTA signs were still to be seen at Antrim, Ballymoney and Dunmurry Halt well into the 1980s. NIR had otherwise repainted all station signs - be they BCDR, NCC or GNR origin - I maroon with light grey lettering - same colours as their railcar livery of the day. (Incidentally, maroon with light grey, á la BR, not white or cream). Any that NIR made themselves in the late 60s and 70s were on narrower wooden boards painted maroon, with light grey lettering as before. Then they brought in those ghastly metal things which looked like old iron bedframes with letters welded on.... Is it me, or has design just gone, utterly gone, from any modern railway scene? Is there nothing at all with any sense of artistic merit or proportion in it?

I've had my medication now, so I can continue.... The BCDR used a scheme of some sort of darkish olive green, which the DCDR has now appropriately adopted as its house style for stations. Like the GNR in many cases (but not all) it painted station signs in red on white, latterly anyway; though possibly black and white originally. The olive green was offset by off-white or cream, but station fencing was often, if not usually, painted a silvery-grey, which eye-witnesses liken to galvanised paint or lead paint as applied to water columns to prevent rust. jhb171Senior recalled this on wooden fencing at various locations on the system, which he covered in its entirety on several occasions (always on the footplate; on asking him what colour seating cushions were, some years ago, the answer: "Haven't a clue. was never IN a coach on the BCDR...."). The MGWR used pillar-box red and cream on stations. The GSWR probably used dark green and cream, though I can't be certain. The County Donegal used a rusty red colour - like the GNR's Western District, and a sandy beige, again like GNR Western District, but also light green. Until a few years ago at least, and possibly still, the badly faded remains may be seen on the former Castlefinn station building. The Clogher Valley, MGWR and WLWR often - but NOT always - used navy blue enamelled signs on stations, with the MGWR also using miniature versions on platform seat backs. No company ever used enamel on signal cabins, and no company ever called them "signal BOXES"; this is a trans-channel term. It is a shame that the new museum at Whitehead appears to have signage relating to signal "boxes".... While most railways simply had the station name on a cabin, thus "DOWNPATRICK" or "MALLOW", the MGWR was more long winded, thus: "MULLINGAR SIGNAL CABIN" or "MULTYFARNHAM SIGNAL CABIN". The level of realistic detail on model locos and rolling stock these days is often enhanced to a spookily realistic extent by weathering, and many here are as artistic as Leonardo himself when applying it. Da Vinci, that is, not De Caprio, or any bottle-tanned soccer player. Stations and so on are often neglected, so if accuracy is striven for in a model station, it is as well to remember that many stations in the past, especially on minor lines, might have seen the arrival of The Paintbrush as a major local event. Peeling and faded paint were a lot more prevalent than many a black and white photo would allow us to see. Thus, weathering of buildings (and tyres on cars in the car park!) is as good as obligatory to create an accurate image. I have no information, alas, on how the DSER painted their stations, despite living nowadays in DSER territory.......

I'll delve and see what else I might have.....though many colour books will tell the story better than I! Couldn't agree more - old stations looked well, they were well proportioned, well designed and well laid out. Modern ones couldn't be more ugly - and large areas of concrete (the most unattractive building material in all humanity's nine million years of evolution) just becomes a canvas for the intellectually challenged scumbags who scrawl "artistic" graffiti all over them. No matter what era I would model, I would use a prototype station like Lisburn, Malahide, or Athy - not Adamstown & Cherrywood M7 Parkway Train Station Halt, for sure! Rant over, for now.....!

Glenderg, I'm shocked at ye. Shocked to the pit of me stomach. The filth you do be readin' on that video thing ye have.

Reminds me of a phone call my late aunt got once. Let's call her Olive, and her equally elderly friend (the caller) was Marion. My aunt was at the time about 91, and her friend Marion was about 88 and in the early stages of Alzheimers. (Both have now gone to their reward!). Ringgggg Ringgg Aunt Olive "Hello?" Marion "Ohhhhh I've got terrible news!" Olive "What? What's happened? Is that Marion?" Marion "Yes, yes, it's me.....Did you hear - did you hear - Olive's dead!" Olive "What?" Marion "Olive...you know Olive...she's dead!" Olive, thinking quickly "Where'd you hear that?" Marion "Dunno...dunno, but isn't that awful bad news!" Olive, eyes raised to the ceiling "Yeah, I suppose so...." Marion "Just thought I'd tell you, I'll have to run now. Robert* hasn't come back yet, I dunno where he's got to... He went out....anyway...Bye for now!" Olive "Bye, Marion............................" (* Robert, her hubby, had been dead 12 years...) Ye couldn't make it up. I'm going to bed now.

Their ballast is very realistic....................................................................!!

There. Dinner swallowed. Now, let's see.... Until the early sixties, CIE had continued the GSR's station colours, just like its grey loco livery. This was usually a dark green, not unlike what they would put on carriages and buses; the GSR had this at an early stage lone before it adorned anything on wheels. As far as I can gather there was no connection - dark green was a popular colour for woodwork back in the day. Upper panels and windows were a cream colour - possibly white in some cases, though the pigments in older paints tended to "yellow" them a bit, so things painted white didn't stay that way. Green and cream was to be seen in faded form on many an unrepainted building or doorframe well into the 1970s and even 80s on long-disused water towers. Around 1961-5, various experimental liveries were tried out. In West Cork and on the Valentia line at a few stations, a bright red and cream scheme was introduced. In the case of the former, this was very famously applied just before closure! I don't think it extended to more than a few stations. Red made an appearance on at least one of Limerick station's many signal cabins. Dublin termini and Great Victoria Street got various pastel shades of light blues and greys, details being available in various contemporary copies of the "Irish Railfans News" (see RPSI website). In the mid sixties, CIE introduced a very attractive and fresh looking scheme of black, white and about three shades of grey (no, not fifty). This was added to in main termini by the familiar black and white tiles still to be seen. For students of station livery, please note: NO PLATFORM EDGE YELLOW LINES existed ANYWHERE at this time, and white ones were exceptionally rare too! Let alone nonsensical signs about minding trains passing at speed - on platfortms at termini! Or that huge and occasionally mis-spelt signs exhorting us to mind the gap............ in those days, common sense ruled over puerile inanity! Back to paint. The "shades-of-grey" station paint scheme became absolutely the norm throughout the rest of the sixties, the seventies and eighties. By 1990, a bright but garish scheme of red, white and (predominantly) blue was in place. In the interim, Dublin area station and adopted the DART colours from about 1984/5 by degrees, which many still carry. I think - but couldn't be sure - that Lansdowne Road at least kept the grey a good bit later. I'm not sure exactly when the light grey and cream seen now was first introduced. The first time I saw it was on the DSER, though I can't be sure it wasn't on the main line first. I am sure someone here will add more accurately, but I would think this maybe appeared about ten / fifteen years ago. While on the subject, the UTA policies might be of interest. The NCC painted stations maroon and cream. The GNR had two separate paint schemes. One related to the Eastern District, one Western. The West was the INWR lines (Derry - Dundalk and branches and Bundoran), Cavan / Belturbet to Clones at least, possibly Portadown. The Western District had shades of brown, cream and tannish colour red - still to be seen - for the moment - in the innards of the ex Bundoran Junction signal cabin at Downpatrick. Their Western district had green and cream, like the GSR and CIE, often (like GSR / CIE) with the two separated on internal walls by a half inch black line. (Internally; GSR / CIE / GNR: black skirting boards, green lower panels, thin black line, cream upper panels, cream or white ceiling). The derelict Tynan station (see internet, don't trespass!) STILL retains its original Western District paint inside and out (what's left of it!). The UTA started painting everything in the same type of dark green, but with a slatey white sort of colour externally, cream inside. Often, many features were picked out in red, especially on the Derry Road and NCC, less so GVS - Dundalk. I'm not sure they bothered repaiting the Warrenpoint line stations at all, as I remember a very derelict Dublin Bridge Station in Newry, post closure, in GNR paintwork. On some stations, the UTA used a light turquoise blue with - I think - light grey or white for a short time in the late 60s. CIE either continued the old GSR bilingual enamel signs, or made their own black on white ones from the mid 60s. A few old pre-1925 ones remained, now black letters on white. Now, of course, there are a number of varieties of station signs, the latest a pleasing continental style white on blue. the UTA painted station signs yellow with black lettering. If I think of anything more I'll post. Many of the colour railway books of the last ten years will show up a lot of this in great detail.

Not sure about buildings, though I think locos and rolling stock are well covered. Gimme a minute till I have me dinner and I'll put down a few thoughts.

Gentlemen I need to thin out the Catacombs Upstairs, and to this end I offer the following: I have the following for sale, both of which fill significantly sized brown folders. 1. The original contract between the GNR(I) and the Post Office for the use of telegraphy / telegram equipment by the railway. This lists every single townland the GNR served and is of great interest to anyone interested in signalling and telegraphs, a much-ignored part of railway history. The original document dates back to 1858, pre-GNR days, and is supplemented by various other documents taking the story up to 1909. 2. The entire file and contract relating the UTA / NIR spoil trains, the last normal steam operation in Ireland. This includes correspondence relating to working practices, wagons, their allocation and repairs. All of the plans and arrangements for the very last ever steam train are included, 2nd May 1970. Much other valuable information is included, such as correspondence between the Stormont Government, NIR, train crews and the Blue Circle Cement Co., Magheramorne. A fascinating file relating to Ireland's last ever regular company steam workings. Given the historical significance of the above, I would ask for €30 for the Post Office Telegraphs contract and supporting documentation, and €50 for the Magheramorne stuff. Postage at cost; pickup may be arranged in Dublin. I also have a large amount of 1930s traffic circulars of GSR & GNR origin. If someone offered me €40 for the lot I'd be happy with that.

Never mind Lent, we'd all happily give everything up for ever if we could spend time "playing" with that layout! Absolutely top class. Leslie, now we know why your wagons smell of coffee, green tea, and cappuccino! :-)

Superb!!!! I need to get to that layout. I missed out a footplate ride to Lismore; I might just be able to do it there!

All adds to a post I made elsewhere about in the past most passenger trains hardly had two carriages the same. I could have added to that the four reasons this was so: (1) whatever was usable went into traffic (2) all couplings on ALL railway vehicles were he same; now, hardly any two carriage types have the same coupling - a seriously retrograde step. (3) The sheer variety! As recently as the mid 1980s CIE had six or more varieties of wooden framed stock plus Cravens, plus Mk 2 and Mk 3 sets. Now, its two types of loco hauled coach (100% of which only operate, one type each, on 2 lines (Belfast & Cork)), three types of local railcars and ICRs! (And no, the fact that some are 3 car and some 5 just doesn't cut it for variety!). (4) Going back to the above, many vehicles in all companies were quite simply, like above, one-offs! Or there were maybe 2 or 3 of the type.... The GSR Pullman cars, for example, never operated as single train. They had one in each service, along with a motley collection of everything else from then-modern "Bredins" to ancient six wheelers of many numerous types.