jhb171achill

R I P

Yes. Originally probably painted cream upper and ceiling, mid brown lower. Later, very pale grey throughout. I may have interior photos somewhere but if you look at the DCDR website some of their photos may show it. As far as I know, the G611s were always the very pale grey inside. In Arigna Road times (I'm assuming that Arigna Road closed in 1957!), a G601 class was silver. So, the first thing is serious weathering! The silver was on the roof and chassis also, relieved only by full red buffer beams. Lettering was of the larger style, and in pale green (not the black seen on Silverfox models) with no "snail". No "G" ever carried a "snail" in any livery. In reality, the silver will be pretty dirty, especially round the wheels and roof. These were still steam days, so not just brake dust (as today) but also soot and smoke had an effect on the weathering of locos and rolling stock. By the way, at Downpatrick, the liveries of G613 and G617 are correct. That on G611 is not for a number of reasons.

Love the PalVan! How was that made? See how well authentic CIE wagons look on a layout! The H van adds to this too. (Leslie, I want commission!!)

Let's hope the RPSI gets adequately paid. They never got a red cent for the other CDR loco.

The Guinness flats NEVER had black chassis. NO CIE wagon in standard grey (pre-1970) or later brown ever had a black chassis*. Bubble chassis were grey with grey livery, and grey with orange bubble livery. It was only when cream came along that a rare exception of a black chassis appeared. Modern bogie wagons often have black bogies with multicoloured springs; see the output of Limerick works - they don't seem to have been painting bogie frames in recent years. Some wagons, like Taras, had the same blue on the chassis and bogies as the body, until repainted all brown. The Castlemungret stuff, though, was a rare exception. Other common livery errors on wagons are brown bodies and grey roofs; ok for BR but not CIE. Possibly most well known is the Whitehead livery for "Ivan". Cream balconies, white roof and black ironwork should ALL be grey. The GNR ran a railway, not a fairground attraction! * The VERY few exceptions were 3 or 4 "H" vans painted green (black chassis) for Tralee-Cork mail, a brief interlude about 1960-3. Green horse boxes had black chassis, grey ones didn't.

The orange IS a bit bright, but could be dumbed down with weathering - while CIE coaching stock was typically better kept than the UTA or BR across the pond did, four wheeled vans tended to be more weathered. Indeed, a pristine van wasn't usual..... The Silverfox range are a fantastic addition. Some of us want RTR and haven't the modelling skills of our esteemed star performers on this website. Some of us want intensely detailed models, as close as possible to original. Others are happy to have a "look". There's a place for it all, and Silverfox's locos in particular fill an otherwise gaping void in the market. For Murphy-style accuracy, the gaping voids are cattle trucks, fertiliser wagons*, J15s* and AEC railcars. (* these, by all accounts, are on their way) Leslie filled probably the biggest gaping void with his H vans. Leslie - I hope they're flying off the shelves! So many excellent layouts have BR wagons on them, so there's a market.

Are these re-liveried / amended LMS coaches? If not too dear, useful for starter layouts.

Yes, Jimmy O'Dea, who I casually knew many moons ago, had - from memory - 2 or 3 pics showing this scene (though I might be confusing Kevin's stuff too - it's years since I've seen either). In terms of the numbers being temporary, this is a "yes and no" issue; I doubt that they were reallocated as such, som in that sense they were probably permanent - but they were certainly temporary in terms of the overall livery as they all became black'n'tan before being introduced into traffic. Incidentally, if anyone ever has time, make an appointment to see Jimmy's stuff in the National Archives - I don't think it's all online yet. When I went through his entire collection about six years ago none was, and it took me just two days.

There was never a blue/grey, David. What you're looking at is the silver livery in its customary worn and dirty state. The bluish tint is the photo aging! The 121 class arrived in "proper" grey - like that applied to H vans at the time, more or less, and somewhat lighter than that currently on 071s. They had yellow also, obviously unlike the G class! Given the preponderance of utterly inaccurate liveries nowadays in almost every area of preservation, I hope that the gods will smile sweetly on B134 and it emerges in its correct livery, rather than the now all-too-common "approximation"! It's just as easy to paint it right as wrong.....

.......But not in traffic. Delivered plain green - which could conceivably been undercoat - with no markings at all, but repainted black'n'tan before turning a wheel. No - black'n'white only! The G601 were never tan-inclusive!

Correct, Eiretrains - the G601 trio were silver, then green, then black and white - no tan ever. As you say, the G611s were concurrently both black and white, and black, tan and white. Naturally, these 7 were never green (in traffic) or silver. It's worth noting that as so depressingly often in preservation, the green carried by G611 on the DCDR is wrong in a number of ways. First, they never ran in green - but - the livery is wrong. Green "G"s did not have black chassis - green. They had a large cabside number and no "snail", not a small one with the logo. No G of any sort ever carried a snail, silver or green. Another common error is the depiction of lettering on silver locomotives of G, C, A and B101 classes. This was light green, near the black sometimes seen on models. Going back to the original G601 class, silver locos had a silver chassis and green ones had a green chassis. None ever had a black chassis.

David Yes. GSWR first of course, probably including the white upper panels for some or most of the time (all-over dark purple maroon being the norm for less salubrious stock). Under the GSR it's unlikely it wore the short lived chocolate & cream as it wouldn't have needed repainting very often, so if it got a repaint after around 1933 it would have been the later "LMS" shade maroon like all GSR repaints after that date. 1945 onwards the darker (bus / steam loco shade) CIE green with full gold-lined "eau de nil" snail and lining. I never saw a picture of it in that livery but it must have carried it within that period. Latterly, as shown in many photos of it on the IRRS special to Castlecomer, it had the second green livery, the lighter shade with a single lining at waist level. Thus, as you say, both of the two green liveries. One wonders what it would have looked like in black'n'tan.... There had been talk of preserving it. It could therefore have ended up in Cultra....

A model of this would be a REAL beauty. Old GSWR / MGWR types, many of which ran in traffic well into the 1960s, haven't ever had anything like enough attention paid to them.

Very very hard to deduce identity of the coaching stock, but it could be Midland - though why a MGW train would be there doesn't make sense as far as I know. The windows look more "Midland" than "Southern" and if they were GSWR they'd look very much darker. Looking closer though, the brake coach is certainly not MGWR as it would have a birdcage at that stage. Now that'll bother MY version of OCD.....!

Yes, it is indeed the GSWR one. The MGWR one was a very different design indeed, with curved end corner panoramic windows but no open balcony. It was twelve wheeled and was probably the single most luxurious railway carriage ever to run in Ireland. Incidentally, any MGWR coach or wagon which survived into the GSR or CIE era had an "M" after its number, thus an ex-MGWR coach no. 139 would now be 139M.

Yes, all the above point to the reality - anything even distantly like Irish stuff is still do very far off the mark that it just won't look remotely right. Our carriages and locos were as different from British or mainland European stuff as they were from American. I suspect that you might be able to get something vaguely like a 121 class diesel (1962-2006) out of a model - if one exists - of an American SW1500 switcher, to which they were distantly related. Even then, considerable surgery on the front would be needed. All of the above has to apply, really, even for a "non-river-counter". One can only hope that improvements in 3D printing will eventually bring availability in N to Irish railway modelling. (Pat - N gauge J15, RTR, plus sixwheelers?)

The Shapeways stuff appears to be 3D printed, or some such similar procedure. With N, errors are magnified times two, as are features which are coarse. Thus, even finishing the body requires some dexterity, and painting is probably worse! I looked into this myself recently and regrettably decided against - but I'd be interested to see the results of such work elsewhere. Those carriages are no longer in service. There were just over 40 of them, entering traffic 1963/4 and the last withdrawn within the last ten years. They were known as "Cravens".

Best view I've seen of Rock Street Yard. I wish I had known about it to include in "Rails Through North Kerry"!

The proper broad gauge makes such a difference, though I suppose not financially accessible to all! Out of curiosity, I presume it would be simple enough to convert SSM, Leslie's, or Murphy stuff to 5ft 3 scale? What about Murphy Models locos?

This time last year I was actually planning to get a 171 D 800 but it's €1000 to book a special new number...... ...so a 151D had to do..... cheaper anyway!

Fifty.... There WERE sixteen. Garfield hid one to confuse us.

Those sleepers aren't the right livery........

Finally, locos. Given the total cosmetic neglect of many ex-GNR locos, you won't have many livery worries! Just weather a black model so much you wouldn't know what colour it had been painted! There's really little choice unless you scratchbuild. With poor light and the wrong glasses, the approximations will have to do. Of bought models: LMS 0.6.0 tender loco with altered cab - GNR "UG" for passenger and goods. LMS 4.4.0 tender loco with alterations - "S" class for passenger. Paint a dullish blue and weather until practically none of it can be seen! LMS Fairburn or Stanier 2.6.4T - for those of us who "need to go to specsavers", it would to as a "jeep". An all-steam layout? You will need a 4-car (not 2-car) railcar set. In 00, Silverfox have re-liveried a BR type in various Irish liveries. If that particular type is available in N, give it the dark green treatment and it'll do, with maybe a LMS Stanier third as an intermediate, plus a similar brake second. Tow a couple of brown-liveried (brown = fitted, to the UTA) goods vans behind it, and away ye go.

Now, here we are. I must emphasise first that N gauge modelling is where OO was in 1970. If you want Irish, and anything approaching accuracy, scratch building I should the ONLY show in town. If RTR stuff ever appears, it'll be 201s (the modern super-long type, not the "C" class - and Mk 3s! This means that for Omagh, the only alternative is repainted and/or altered British stuff, which is what I list below as probably the best options, and not suitable at all for a gauge larger than N. Coaching stock 1. Graham Farish LN03 57ft type. In green, vaguely like some GNR stock still in use then. Mid grey roof, UTA green sides, black ends and chassis. 2. There is a Southern Railway brake 2nd which isn't unlike some GNR brake seconds. 3. An LMS open standard, which is early in 00 convertible to a Bredin, is vaguely similar to some GNR main line stock of the 1947-54 period. There is a bogie BR wooden bodied parcel van which might be altered to an extent to make a decent approximation of the ubiquitous "P" vans which would be on most passenger trains. In terms of wagons, the occasional CIE "H" van can be arrived at by repainting a particular style of BR goods van, this also being useful in its wooden panelled style for some UTA vans. The UTA wagon grey was darker than CIE, but in your period quite simply never pristine. They knew they were running down goods traffic and wagons were rarely if ever painted, and frequently repaired with odd unpainted planks, planks in undercoat or some other random shade of grey or even brown. Therefore, like cement bubbles, for any attempt at realism, heavy weathering is essential (sorry, IRM!). CIE vans were neater, tidier and better looked after. For a goods brake, the best you can do is try to scratchbuild a GNR one, using Leslie's excellent 00 gauge model as a model - bear in mind, though, that the white roofs, cream vestibule interiors, and above all, the gaudy "Ivan"-esque zebra style vertical black ironwork strapping are all entirely inaccurate for any livery; all grey is yer only man. Such "livery" details are entirely Whitehead inventions. A CIE "tin van" might be an extremely rare visitor too.

The NCC generally copied much design-wise from the LMS. There are a number of standard LMS coaches which would be fine with just a repaint into UTA green. The trouble is, very very few ventured onto the Derry Road ever! None would have regularly been there at all, but maybe the odd one on a special. In N scale, being smaller, greater liberties can be taken by all but the absolute perfectionist. Worsley Works does N gauge sides for NCC "North Atlantic" stock, but these five vehicles never left the NCC. They also do CIE laminates, which made but two or three forays onto the line, I believe as far as Omagh only. And you'd need an N gauge 141 for that, which would be a Shapeways 3D print. This would be inaccurate for any other use on this layout whatsoever, and would be expensive and troublesome to make. So, GNR. A number of proprietary 0.6.0 locos could roughly approximate (in THIS scale, but not 00!) to common GNR types like the UG. I'll have a look at what coaches might do - there are several older LNER types which could be altered to look vaguely GNR wooden types - but can they be got in N scale? Some LMS types of post-1935 designs can look somewhat like post-1950 GNR stock. I'll post again after I've looked online at what N stuff is for sale. Ordinary N gauge open and flat wagons are fine with a repaint. For vans, again I'll have a look.