jhb171achill

In MGWR days the typical branch make-up was a full brake or brake 3rd, and a first, second and third. Later, when only two classes existed, it was a first, two thirds and a brake. Some of the old seconds were just downgraded to third, so the actual carriage type mix would have been the same. By the time CIE came into being, anything goes! By 1930, the Clifden and Killala branch sets were often just a brake 3rd and a composite, which could be anything. The Achill set was by now a bogie compo (references to all other carriages above being 6w) plus a brake 3rd 6w. Kingscourt by 1930 quite usually had just the two as well, while the Cavan branch had maybe four. The MGWR had a higher proportion of six wheelers than the GSWR, which is in great part the reason why most bogie wooden stock by the mid 50s were GSWR origin, while most MGWR survivors were 6w. DSER stock vanished at a greater rate. jhb171Senior recalled MGWR 6 wheelers appearing on the Harcourt Street line very soon after the GSR takeover, as he commuted on that line every day at that stage, observing milk churns being loaded at Dundrum for Harcourt Street...but that's another story! As to J15s with DSER stock, that would be Amiens Street - Bray. Such a combination, while possible, is unlikely to have happened often elsewhere. I'm sure J15s appeared on the Harcourt Street line too - certainly, senior mentioned non-DSER locos there in the mate 30s anyway - but I can't remember whether he said they were MGWR, GSWR, or that he didn't remember himself....

Ah! Superb, Andy. I didn't know you were doing a period that early - GSR layouts are (to my knowledge) almost, if not literally non-existent. Both a Valencia / Valentia and a Courtmacsherry prototype would invite quite a hotch-potch of carriages and wagons, almost certainly no two alike! And for 1935 you've all three GSR liveries too, which make for more variety, and make up for nothing but plain grey engines! (Unless 800 is going to make a surprise and premature appearance!)... Both should be extremely interesting projects - good luck!

Andy Excellent idea. I have MGWR drawings somewhere (in fact, I might have sent them to the publisher as they're going to be in the Clifden book). If I can find them they might be of use, though they've been circulated here and there before. MGWR six-wheelers were an integral part of the passenger stock landscape right up to the last ones withdrawn in Cork in 1963. I'm not sure what you mean about the cattle trucks being too modern image - the CIE ones cover the 1950s to (Loughrea) 1975. Certainly there were older ones, though these seem to have been withdrawn (along with any remaining "soft-tops") by the mid / late 50s - their relatively swift demise possibly because most were clapped out. If you're modelling early CIE (1945-56), yes, they're too modern, but a decade later seems to be more popular in modelling terms, and there's much more available. However, for the 1960s the standard CIE cattle truck is a must. We have the very fine kit of the GNR one, but few of these seem to have appeared on the CIE system; I certainly never saw one. I would guess that the wholesale closure of the GNR and the elimination of goods on UTA put paid to most if not all. As others have mentioned, British cattle prototypes don't lend themselves to conversion to Irish stock as they were very different in design (like horse boxes). Allen already has some GSWR six-wheelers. A motley mix of these, plus bogies ancient and modern, and MGWR stuff, would suit a 1950s to 1963 layout well. Currently I'm struggling with space to put something new together after a layout-drought of quite a few years more than I care to remember. I would think I'll be looking at 1959-63, so in that case I would certainly go for several. Given Allen's comments re. what's viable, he says 12 minimum to a sheet, I suggested maybe one full brake, one brake third, five thirds, two firsts and three seconds. Apparently, such as this is certainly do-able. For anyone else involved (Bantry layout?) in the 50s, this would be a boon for you too. Even Arigna Road; the SLNCR had a habit of borrowing GNR or CIE stock when their own diminishing stock of clapped out relics of passenger stock were insufficient. Most of the borrowed stock came from Sligo and was often MGWR six-wheelers. One photo in one of Charles Friel's books shows an excursion entering Enniskillen with Lough Erne / Melvin hauling about five or six coaches - several being MGWR stock (and you can see the faded "flying snails" on them!). A sheet of CIE cattle trucks would be a great addition too. People forget that in rural Ireland, a model goods or mixed train without cattle stock was akin to a model passenger layout based in 1995 with no Mk. 3s!

All Mk. 2. Cravens couldn't run with Mk 2 (or 3) in passenger traffic. I have to say that I saw a random mix of "Galway" liveried Mk 2s and "tippex" ones - more often than the much more uniform set shown above! Good to see them all in a row, as it were - a lovely photo.

Gentlefolks... I have been swopping a few emails with Allen Doherty and I thought the results would be worthwhile, in case anyone isn't aware (though many might be). My understanding is that he needs to do a run of 12 kits on one production run, but they DON'T all have to be identical. My question had been in relation to six wheeled coach bodies, but apparently he could do, for example, three sets of brake, 1st, 2nd and 3rd, totalling 12, on one sheet - plus the six wheeled chassis to go with them. Worsley already advertises various GSWR and DNGR six-wheeled coach kits. Just a point of info. A long-term omission has been CIE cattle wagons and MGWR six wheelers; both as absolutely essential as "H" vans and Bullied opens to the 1950-70 period. This could be the answer, though kit-making skills are required, of course.

Interesting..... A study of all Dublin's depots, or what remains of them, would be good to have. I'd do it myself if I had time. A few years I went up to the erstwhile site of the Blessington steam tram terminus at Terenure. Nothing's left, not that there were many buildings to start with; it was levelled after it closed in the 30s and replaced by a fine art-deco 1930s style cinema - itself now long run-down and converted into a cut price carpet shop until recently.

Flying snail green.....

In general, across Ireland, a museum devoted to anything at all will not be financially self supporting if it is an out-of-the-way place. If this could be fine with IE's full cooperation and full funding from somewhere, and permanently run by volunteers, well and good. And I hope it can be. However, as others suggest, making a busy attraction out of one scene out of an (albeit famous) film 66 years short is a bit far fetched. In order to visit Kiltimagh museum, you have to ring a mobile phone number and someone from the town appears. The day I went, I noticed spiders. They outnumbered the people there by a considerable amount.... Ballyglunin wouldn't be much different.

I went to Kiltimagh for the first time recently. I have to say it isn't up to much. Tuam had an allocation of six J15s (nothing else) in the 1914-20 period, according to the late Billy Lohan.

Attachment won't open......

First pics: GNR(I) chair. These were produced in this form from about 1900-1953. The letters "A F" are A^^^^^ Foundry. Second pics: one half of a curved-ended MR(NCC) chair, early 20th C onwards to about 1945.

Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh I'm suffering from "Too-Many-Birthdays syndrome"!

For the narrow gauge bit, 00n3 would be a better bet than 009, which is scale 2ft gauge.

Quite right, John, I forgot about the survivor. A visitor can see it there - Michael Kennedy will be pleased to show a visitor around.

Inchicore wouldn't have the plans now. If they exist at all - and while I might be wrong, I do think I've seen them somewhere - they would most likely be in the IRRS. I think they were built on old T & D chassis, which would make them 27ft long. Inchicore (CIE) built them, so if there was anything of old buses in them, they would (unlike the "bus-coach") have been so heavily altered that comparison with the donor bus would have been rendered irrelevant. Once I get home this afternoon I'll see what I can dig up in the "Catacombs".

I have a copy of this which I'm happy to lend.

The WCR ones were new build to go with the railcars, rather than conversions of old buses, I think. The chassis of them may have been older - I'm away from my Catacombs right now so can't be 100%.

There was just the one coach thus rebuilt. This was No. 7, which had suffered badly from outside storage and was sent to Inchicore for repair in the early 1940s by the GSR. It seems that it was somewhat patched up and returned, but it was a "string-and-sellotape" job and by 1951 it was back at Inchicore, this time reduced to a chassis. In 1953 it returned to Ballinamore as the "Bus-Coach" (as it was known). I'm no bus expert, so I've no idea what the original buses looked like, but they were GSR "NP" class single deckers. The cabs were cut off and two bodies were placed end to end, with the doors at the outermost ends. The rear doors had equivalent ones made on the opposite sides,so that the coach had access doors at both ends, on both sides. It was painted unlined CIE dark green (1945-55 shade). There was no CIE logo, only the number "7L". It retained this to the end, never being repainted (like most of everything on the C & L in GSR and CIE days!). As you'll see in Ernie's picture, the guard's end had a double door for luggage on each side. It seated 36 passengers on bus seats. Latterly, it appears to have been principally used on the Belturbet line, forming the entire passenger accommodation on the sole daily through train from Dromod. It never had any heating, and the roof leaked, probably due to a botched job of joining the two buses together. With an average speed of 12 miles per hour over the line, the rail passengers north of Ballinamore were hardly well served in the 1950s!

Herewith details of trains serving Ballyglunin in 1949 and 1960, just after the western route was comprehensively dieselised. In the WTT dated 4th July 1949, Limerick - Sligo (northbound) trains are as follows, as they pass through Ballyglunin: 12.09 am Athenry - Tuam mail (probably a loco and a mail van; only stopped for one minute) 10.00 am Limerick - Sligo goods (departed 03.30am, arrives Sligo 21.50 that evening! 15 min stop 9.35 am to 09.48 - Limerick - Tuam goods 2.53 pm The first of only two passenger trains in the day, and the only one right through Limerick - Sligo! This one is the 11.45 Limerick - Sligo, seven hours of six wheeled luxury! 8.49 pm Athenry - Tuam local passenger; connection from Galway line. Southbound, this was the picture, starting off with an interesting one: 8.40 am Described as "double headed", this started out as the 8.20am mixed from Tuam, and spent four minutes at Ballyglunin. At Athenry the carriage was detached or locked up, as it continued to Limerick as a goods, arriving at 7.10pm, having had lengthy lay-bys at Athenry (1 hr 25), Gort (1 hr 48) and Ennis (2 hr 6m). At these places, other trains were crossed. 11.09 am Sligo - Limerick passenger (dep Sligo 7.30am, arr Limerick 2.35pm) 2.54 pm Tuam - Athenry mail. The reverse of the 12.09 arrival above. 7.29 pm the 8.15am goods ex-Sligo, which arrived in Limerick at 1am the following morning. Now let's fast forward to 1960. By this stage "C" class locos are designated for ALL traffic except the single through passenger train in each direction, which is an AEC set. With the abysmal reliability record of the Crossley engines, it may be assumed that an occasional steam engine or perhaps B101 might put in an appearance from time to time. Northbound: 9.45 am The 03.40am Limerick - Sligo goods (arr Sligo 8.05pm) called on request only 12.38 pm Athenry - Tuam passenger / mail 5.41 pm The 3.15pm Limerick - Sligo passenger. Arrival was at 8.35pm. Five hours and twenty minutes was a great improvement on the seven hour ordeal of 11 years earlier - all stops were served! 6.28 pm The 8.50am Limerick - Claremorris goods had only made it this far by this time, with several long layovers. It would not hit Claremorris until 8.14pm. 7.18 pm Athenry - Tuam passenger. Incidentally, these short workings were powered by a "C" from Galway shed, running light between Athenry and Galway and vice versa. Southbound: 4.31 am 5.45am Sligo - Limerick goods 7.55 am Tuam - Athenry passenger 8.29 am Claremorris - Limerick goods passes through but doesn't stop. 11.39 am 8.50am Sligo - Limerick passenger 3.30 pm Tuam - Athenry passenger & mail; obviously the return of the one which called at 12.38 in the other direction. An interesting thing is that there was also, along the WLWR line, a Limerick - Galway and back passenger service. This left Galway at 9 am, and reversed at Athenry, with Limerick arrival at 11.40. Returning at 12.45pm, it arrived back in Galway at 3.55pm. If we look at today's tram from Galway to Limerick and back, it has six intermediate stops. Back in 1960, it had 12 definites plus a request stop; just compare today's timings! Not much quicker! No Sunday services of any sort were provided in either of the years shown. Stations open along the whole route in these times were: LIMERICK Longpavement Cratloe Sixmilebridge Ballycar Ardsollus Clarecastle ENNIS Crusheen Tubber Gort Ardrahan Craughwell ATHENRY Ballyglunin *** Tuam Castlegrove Milltown Ballindine CLAREMORRIS Kiltimagh Swinford Charlestown Curry Tubbercurry Carrowmore Leyney (Coolaney) Collooney (WLWR) Ballysodare SLIGO I hope that this is of interest.

Looking extremely promising. Excellent top class work so far.

Particularly with Leo in charge now, these are matters which deserve serious attention.

Colin, there are a few pics of the place in operation in "Rails Through the West", and my co-author on that has loads more. If you PM me with specific requirements for views I'll see what I can do.

I didn't know that! Worthy of publication indeed......

Is it a somersault? I thought it was an ordinary one..... but BCDR original and original location it isn't! Yes, the other two cabins seem to have been overlooked! I suppose, if they mean still with levers, that might be the basis of their claim....

As one involved with EU and other grant applications over the last thirty years, I might point out a few conditions that are standard now; 1. 100% funding or anything near it is almost never considered, especially for large amounts. Thus, substantial financial input from the promoter is necessary. This being the case, in an Irish context it can mean members coughing up till they bleed! 2. Before ANY railway preservation scheme is considered, financial sustainability must be proven. For British preserved lines it's a given - one good gala weekend there will bring in the equivalent of the DCDR's entire annual income, Santas included. 3. Very often match funding is a requirement - typically of about 30-50%. Thus, typically but not always, if you have a small project of say £200k, here's what might happen. EU provides £120 - provided..... Applicant provides at least £55k Some other sponsor e.g. a tourist board or local authority - provides £25k. Local authorities in the 32 counties have had an absolutely abysmal record in funding anything transport related - throughout all time. With funding cuts across the board, and six of those counties cutting themselves out if EU funding, this doesn't look like changing soon!