jhb171achill

I'm not sure what the name is, Divecontroller, but what's on that van above looks perfect. Since the originals were stencilled, on a scale as small as 4mm to a foot it's probably not feasible to actually stencil them, and a scaled down transfer of a stencilled number is probably so small that you'd need a microscope to see it. Perhaps flangelubricator might advise us what transfers he used?

A more modern "might-have-been", probably of interest to those readers who don't yet suffer, as I do, from "Too-Many-Birthdays-Syndrome". The driving trailer yoke thing at the DCDR, which to my endless amusement appeared quite soon after I had resigned from holding the DCDR purse strings! ..... ..... had this ungainly looking beast remained in NIR ownership and actually been put to use, what's the scenario? In theory, push pulling with a 111 class on the Derry line, but as NIR discovered when they bizarrely introduced a separate "suburban" (red and cream) and "inter city" (blue and light grey) livery in the 80s, on a system that small each set gets all over the place. Thus, a set used on a morning return to Derry will often do the all stops to Larne that evening. So - would this thing have become, presumably with a few "gatwicks", a genny van and a push-pull modified 111, (a) a spare "Enterprise" set, (b) a regular "Enterprise" set, or © a quirky local set which might variously turn up in Derry, Portrush, Larne, Bangor or Deriaghy Halt? And if (b), would a Gatwick have been fitted out as a catering / first class vehicle? Answers on a postcard....

=))=))

Sounds painful. Really painful.....

I've a pic somewhere if the last cattle trucks awaiting scrapping in Cork about 1977. Must look it out. Given the above mentioned history of cattle traffic in Ireland, it is quite staggering that not one single example is preserved, anywhere. The last I remember seeing was an old SLNCR one in a field near manorhamilton which fell to pieces in the late 1980s / 1990s. A worthy "new build" for the DCDR; please witness here that when I win the Euromillions / Lotto, I'll fund the whole thing, plus restoration of all the six wheelers, myself.....

Another thing I like about this van is the font for the numerals. This is close as can be got to what CIE used. All too often we see little choice available but "Times New Roman" or "Arial". The former was, and is, entirely unknown on Irish railway vehicles. The latter appeared with British Rail's "double arrow blue" era and was never used by CIE either.

Superb!!!!! Incidentally, for those too youthful to have seen these wagons, you may notice distinct differences between the door of the one in the photo, and flangelubricator's excellent model. Flange's model is grey, as they were initially, thus represents a period before anything was brown. These wagons initially had doors like flange's model; all obviously being correct there - but later on, most had the "smoother" doors, though I certainly saw quite a few still with the type of doors flange has depicted, in the "brown" (1970-7) era. thus, if you want to depict the 60's, use the older type of doors, and grey. Later, brown with either type of doors. Another thing, livery wise, that flange's model reminds me of is the CIE roundel. On "palvans" and "H" vans in GREY, this was in the colours depicted, not all-white. When brown, wagons always had an all-white roundel. Snails would obviously only have been on grey wagons, and white. Snails on tenders of steam engines - lined light green, never yellow or white.

One of the "palvans", Richard. They were very common too.

When built, grey body, grey chassis. First repaint: orange body, grey chassis. latterly, in Irish Cement times, cream body and black chassis (SERIOUSLY weathered with cement dust!)

It's 1978 in upside-down-land. I'm taking a deep breath before I post these.....! Breakdown train, Glasnevin Junction, in those idyllic days before anyone going anywhere anything maintenance orientated had to have day-glo underpants, and before so much as a screwdriver had to be sheep-dipped in bright yellow! End of an era; the very last MGWR bogie coach, which would have been a good candidate for preservation.... For modellers; note - grey chassis, not orange. And certainly not Hornby black.... :-) One for Garfield... .....and for Garfield's great-grandad.... This vehicle was of GSWR origin. And the ubiquitous "H" van, hint hint. I really don't know what happened there. They are all the right way up. Maybe they turned out as double-upside-down..... Yes, that's it.

That's what I mean, Garfield. I'm saying that without such a thing, it would be inaccurate. Unless, of course, it's modelle on a suburban halt, or "modern image" ie surrounded by day glo people, security fencing, bus shelter stations, weeds and graffiti!

I remember being in the bank and the cashier was smoking, and he offered the customer he was serving a cigarette and a light..... And getting out of a train absolutely kippered. Yecchhh.... went with the territory on ALL public transport..

Isn't it incredible. By FAR the heaviest goods traffic ever on Irish railways, and one of the main reasons some lines were built, and this is the first time I've ever seen it accurately modelled! Any modelled rural Irish station is incomplete to an inaccurate level without a cattle dock...... the single most neglected part of modelling. Why? Top marks, thus, to Kirley - looks fantastic.

The DCDR one was withdrawn early to mid 80s.

That's tight,josefstadt, I forgot about that! That was the last of the Drewry ones in use. The yellow wickhams (of which two are on the DCDR) came soon after. Jhb171senior used to use the old railbus which is in Cultra for his GNR inspection outings, and the platform at the back was slightly amended to allow ladder access onto the track. He also used, in earlier times, a PP, P or UG class loco with Saloon No. 50, also fitted with a specially made set of portable steps from the gangway end.

Rack Railways and zig-zag reversals. One of each of the above were at one time planned. The Ballymena, Cushendall & Red Bay Railway had a one-time plan to bring their line down to Red Bay itself in order to unload iron ore for export at the pier there. Had that happened, would have had one of the most scenically spectacular, steeply graded, (and doubtless short lived!) lines in the country. It would have required several zig zag reversals, as seen in South America and some Indian narrow gauge lines. In the Mourne Mountains there was a proposal as late as the 1960s to build a rack railway somewhere in the Mournes (I have the details somewhere) in the vicinity of the Silent Valley, for tourists. An Irish Snowdon Mountain line.

There were at least two GSWR ones converted. 8456 was one, and the longer surviving one. I don't know what the other was but I may have the info in the Catacombs; I'll look today. You're absolutely right about the 1977 ones. They were the first ever yellow wagons and were that way from the start, while others remained brown. The two rebuilt GSWR ones were almost certainly the only other ones to become yellow.

Just, again, for modelling accuracy; looks like the UK ones have black bogies instead of green....but same green chassis. The green is obviously STS's house colours.

The "CIE green" was long gone by then - the shade on these wagons looked more similar, if anything, to UTA green. The bogies, chassis and drawgear were all this shade, not separate types of green. These dark green bogies, like blue ones on the Taras, and (bizarrely) grey ones on the 2600s when delivered, 201s and Mk 4s, become weathered with brake dust on their very first outings!

That initial black and white photo is actually the same normal yellow seen on all such things nowadays; it's a little over exposed, and clean, which is why it looks so light. The DCDR van, if carrying that lettering, should be all black, or all slate grey (post about 1918). If GSR, all grey. If CIE, all greay plus snail until mid sixties, then all grey plus roundel for a few years, and all brown plus roundel from maybe 1972ish until it was withdrawn. The "H" van to its right also suffers from the preservationists "wagon curse" of black ironwork. They, nor their equivalents, never had black chassis. Note the brown ironwork on the body of the DCDR one - at least that's right. The "black ironwork curse" has made the DCDR's ex-NCC goods brake van, and the RPSI's "Ivan" look like zebras; neither ever had black ironwork. Old black and white photos often imply otherwise, in fact it's rusted metal, which is darker in a b/w photo than badly faded grey paint on wooden planks! Oh - and roofs almost always body colour. Not grey with brown bodies, white or black. But I digress......

Which new build plough van?

The pic above is indeed yellow, Junctionmad, though very weathered (as they usually looked). I think - but stand to be corrected - that two brake vans, possibly both of GSW origin - were done like that, but only one was running latterly. I mentioned that yellow appeared for railway vehicles in the 90s - I meant "ordinary" vehicles (like plough vans), not "yellow machines" and wickhams. Early inspection cars were painted in carriage livery - maroon under the GSR, and the older dark green, fully lines and "snailed" by CIE. The actual Wickham cars were yellow from the outset and were about in the late 70s. At that stage, plough vans and ballast wagons were brown, in standard CIE livery (i.e. brown all over, roof and chassis and wheels included). If you base your layout in the 70s-80s (a fascinating period), that's the way to go. I have a few pics somewhere - probably in upside-down-land; I'll delve. I took them about 1978 and the plough van is brown with CIE roundel. The only diversion from normal lettering was the addition of stencilled "PWD" on some vehicles.

Wow!! Is there no end to your talents, Nelson! They really do look the business. Very well done as always.

Yellow first appeared on "track machines" (bought-in tamping machines) in the 1960s. There was some anecdotal evidence that at least some of the VERY few prior to then were grey. Yellow started spreading to actual railway vehicles in the 1990s. Both this livery, and that last (of several) rebuild were probably about then, I'd say at a guess mid 90s.

That's what I'm thinking, Scahalane. Maybe altered first?