jhb171achill

I think that's the answer, Islandbridge. I always meant to ask Senior what exactly they looked like inside.... He did describe the interiors of DSER 6 wheelers on the H Street line - nothing like a Pullman, third class or not. There are photos of Jimmy O'Dea's which show these carriages not just in traffic but at least one lying derelict at Naas in the late fifties. Jimmy was a gentleman - I met him just once, many many moons ago.....

That is seriously impressive!

I think Adam Ant certainly looked as if all his bubbles had long fallen off the track....

Very many thanks, Islandbridge.

Damn! Burnthebox, you've caught me red handed. I've got five shillings and fourpence (22p). I'm going to invest in Guinness tonight. I think it's about sixpence a pint - would that be about right?

I think, Derailed, that geographical location has its part to play too. If you or I live in Derry, no probs, we just toddle down to the site in the morning and do a day's work. But - notwithstanding the fact that just about enough people make the half hour or 40 minute trip to Whitehead, Downpatrick or Inchicore to keep the RPSI and DCDR going, Derry is a four hour drive for me, and for many. Local interest is absolutely crucial in any preservation scheme. Even for necessary details like who is the key holder if the PSNI want to advise of a break in. Not much use if every involved volunteer, committed as they are, lives in Thurles, Newry or Manchester.... Local publicity and local people will save and develop the FVR. Absence of same, and the consequences will follow their unfortunate, but realistic path.

Couldn't agree more, Warbonnet. Like all imperial measurements, the pre-decimal defied any attempt at logic, and melted the heads of most schoolchildren.

Yes. I can even remember white metal "K"'s 00 scale loco kits being advertised in the late 60s with prices like 27/6d, ie one pound (20 shillings), seven shillings and sixpence. For younger readers a shilling was 5p, thus there were 20s to the £. However there were 12 OLD pennies to a shilling, so the modern sterling penny is worth 2.4 times an old penny; there were 240 old pennies to the £. Does that make any sense? So: 35/6d = £1.15s.6d. (Yes, "d" - for the Latin "denarius" meant "penny") = £1.77 and a half pence. 15 shillings was obviously 75p. Here endeth the Lesson.

"Senior"'s recollection was that "for third class, they were extremely comfortable, but not as much as first class"!.

They were initially GSR maroon, then brown and cream. When maroon, they had "Great Southern Pullman" above window level. I don't think it said Pullman on them when brown and cream, and it certainly didn't when green. The GSR took them over pretty quickly. The practice was to have one in each main line Cork train, and they never ran them as a full train, like they would in the south of England.

It most certainly is, Minister. It's one I've been following with interest (as Derailed had observed!). I am aware that several organisations and many individuals with various expertise or at the very least a sympathetic interest, have been lobbying Derry City Council for tests, to no avail. Many years ago, I had dealings with one gentleman in DCC in relation to an RPSI matter and I quickly got the impression he was a lone voice of reason within; but he has long gone. The stark reality here, as I pointed out on IRN, is that museums cost money to run (ask DCDR, Donegal, RPSI or UFTM; none of which, incidentally, is in a position to directly assist), and no official body either has it, wants to part with it, or both. Even in Britain where they have twelve times our population and a much greater net worth per head, some heritage organisations have struggled for decades to become viable visitor attractions. Look, for example, at the erstwhile Welsh Highland Railway (1964) Ltd.! There's no substitute for a lot of volunteers turning up week after week, year after year, decade after decade, giving all their spare time and not a little of their own cash, to get these things going. Derry just doesn't seem to have the critical mass. What needs to happen in the long run in both Derry and, as another story, Tralee, is that the local authorities concerned hand these things over to volunteers. Until and unless they do, they'll get no volunteers, partly because they wouldn't be welcome, partly because nobody in their right mind would take orders or direction from a local authority without being paid! No volunteers means either shutters and locks, or a wage bill for the local authority. Which means significant financial cost - which means local councillors, especially in these times, will seek to cut costs. So - let's hope imminent storage is at least vandal-proof. That's the best short term outcome, seriously imperfect though it is. Then, maybe - just maybe - lobbying by the general enthusiast community might persuade the relevant bodies to just hand the lot over to a suitable organisation. This, incidentally, applies equally and almost as a mirror image in Tralee, where local authority involvement has completely banjaxed what could have been a great visitor attraction. Funding isn't easy now either. The days of free grant money are gone. Organisations usually have put up match funding of their own. If you've a three mile railway, like in Derry, and it costs say £1million sterling to do the whole railway and loco and so on, who on earth will cough up the half million to match the grant? That's the problem. It's not easy.

Ten "very"'s - excellent! Prototype exact! :-)

David, I could ping you more pics privately showing that model if you want, illustrating the colour in daylight and artificial light. PM me if interested.

Very true, Mike. I burned the midnight oil till well into the small hours in recent times going through this stuff. I've had it got some years, but it's only recently I've got around to starting to sort and catalogue it all. Here's a book published by the LMS about their Irish Sea shipping services, complete with original compliment slip...

Garfield - even late 50's, only a handful were black. Few locos saw a paintbrush after 1954 or 1955, and of those that did only some wore black. Obviously, those that did only did for a very short time before withdrawal. Prior to about 1954, and going right back to GSWR in 1915, nothing was black - all grey excerpt: 800 class - always green. Their own unique GSR green livery until 1945, then (darker) CIE green until withdrawal. Late 1940s on - CIE green on many (but not all) main line passenger locos, many Dublin suburban tank locos plus a single 60 class 4.4.0. A layout based, say, about 1955-64 with steam on it might statistically have thirty grey locomotives (if the owner was wealthy enough!) and one black......

That one does look black. The picture was taken in the late 50s or early 60s by the look of it. In those final years, a few locos were indeed repainted black, but not many. That may well be one. The tender, though, is certainly grey! No J15s were black - I say that as they were the most numerous class, but grey's the thing for them. The loco above is a G2; I'm away from my notes tonight so can't tell offhand which classes did have black examples.

I'm replying here since I was asked the question... I do try to limit my input here to what I think might interest modellers, however I do share the great concern on what happens the FVR stuff. In answer, a number of people are doing all they can in the background to at the very least minimise potential damage. Some of these people I know - and for what it's worth I've added my own voice. Others I don't know, but I wish them well and hope they are successful. For those interested as Derailed says, there is a post on IRN which covers the opinions of at least some of those concerned. Let's hope that some sort of solution comes about. It would be a tragedy of monumental proportions if, after half a century of insecurity, a proper long term home could be found for the unique exhibits up there.

That's the one, Tony; and Arial it is....

That's one of Father Jack's secret sons....

€20, Roxy? You got off very lightly there........

I'm told she will have a revised logo, Warbonnet. Same swirl, different print font. From memory, it's mostly red.

I'll skip the tea, but I'll take the two €20 notes!

I'll suggest THAT to Noreen as well! If you're ever in Doolin, ask for Noreen in the chocolate shop. Her family owns it. I'm off thread I know; I'll leave it at that! :-)

I know the owner of the Father Ted house in Co Clare.... must tell her it's depicted in model form - she'd be delighted!

I think that's the best livery yet for the Enterprise (not that the other two were anything to write home about!) Who'll be first to photoshop it onto a pic of an A class or an 071?